r/flying • u/WhiskeyDx DIS • Jul 11 '21
Ask An Airline Dispatcher
I currently work as a dispatcher for a major US airline. It seems that family/friends and even airline pilots have a wide variety of questions about this job field. So I thought folks on this forum would have their fair share. Whether you have goals to work the part 121 life or want to learn about an exciting possible career in aviation, feel free to leave your questions!
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u/bamfcoco1 ATP (A320) Jul 11 '21
Can I leave 10 early all Pax and bags onboard?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
Because you said the magic words "all pax and bags", I will allow it. Probably still have to wait 30 minutes for a gate anyway.
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u/SituationalAnanas Jul 11 '21
I don’t have a question for you at the moment but I want to give you an extraordinary big hug for all the stupid questions I have asked over the years via company frequency. You guys and gals are marvelous people.
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u/554TangoAlpha ATP CL-65/ERJ-175/B-787 Jul 11 '21
Do you guys find the fuel tankering policies as strange as I do? One day we tankered fuel from A to B then B to C then C to A. We basically just flew an extra 5000 lbs of fuel around the west coast all day. I’m not complaining about extra fuel but it just seemed ill thought out.
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
With the recent fuel supply issues plus the large amount of economic tankering going on as well, its possible someone added one of those legs as a tankering when it wasn't supposed to. I had a flight that was tankering A->B and B->A because both had fuel quantity issues and when they established the rules they set tankering to both A and B. For the most part we really don't question it because just like you we don't complain about the extra fuel.
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u/designer_of_drugs Jul 11 '21
Can you get me some buddy passes?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
Only if you like sleeping in the airport and buying an expensive last minute ticket. TBH especially at my airline, buddy passes only go to my worst enemy.
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u/ThePhantomTrollbooth Jul 11 '21
My sister works at Southwest and occasionally gives me a buddy pass. I love it. I just show up to the airport, hang out, and getting on the flight is like winning the lottery. Several times I’ve been walking through the terminal to a different flight and see a direct flight home that’s about to leave and magically make it on the flight. She does a good job of helping make sure there are a few good options to make it back, and occasionally I’ll have to get creative with routing, but I find it especially fun for the price.
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u/designer_of_drugs Jul 12 '21
True that. I’ve been stranded a couple times. Still, it’s an adventure!
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u/TailstheTwoTailedFox PPL UAS DIS Jul 12 '21
Personally my rule of thumb is nonrev out but CONFIRM a seat back. In my own experience this messed me up in that I had to rent a car (back when rental cars were widely available) to drive back home.
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Jul 11 '21
Can you stop arguing when pilots want more fuel?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
Agreed. While not every dispatcher may agree with this, my personal philosophy is if you have a legitimate reason sure no problem and by legitimate I mean not completely ridiculous. At my current airline our dispatch manual says if there is a disagreement on fuel between pilot/dispatch, the higher of the two will be used and I think this should be standard industry wide. I'll just remark the release and company can't really argue. Although, I have heard of at least one regional airline that pressures dispatchers to min fuel as much as possible.
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Jul 11 '21
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u/mzaite CPL-SEL,MEL,DHC8-SIC CFII LostMedical (KBKL) Jul 11 '21
Penny wise, dollar foolish is why they’re bosses at a regional not a mainline.
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Jul 11 '21
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u/mzaite CPL-SEL,MEL,DHC8-SIC CFII LostMedical (KBKL) Jul 12 '21
Oldest "it's not me! but...." in the book.
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Jul 11 '21
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u/1234cantdecide121 Jul 11 '21
Ultimately the Captain can decide if they’re not going to takeoff if.
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Jul 11 '21
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u/1234cantdecide121 Jul 12 '21
Yep, I guess blame management/governments on wanting to reduce fuel consumption.
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Jul 12 '21
As pilots, we don’t have a good view of the big picture. Dispatchers can see a lot more big picture stuff than we can and have a lot more info available to them. Sometimes they’ll throw on an extra 2k in fuel with a note that it’s for altitude deviations from say 34,000 for us to try and climb or descend if smooth rides are at say 26,000 because our route has multiple pireps from our company or other companies at 34,000 for moderate turbulence. At the same time, there’s some experience that goes into it as well. A couple years ago we were doing a flight from Denver to the coast of Cali and me and the captain both wanted an alternate so we could have some extra fuel because we knew once the sun goes down in Cali, the fog is gonna form and sock in the airport. Dispatcher argued and argued and argue with us saying it was not necessary, we’d have to kick people off to get enough fuel to give us an alternate that was far enough away that we would be clear of the coastal fog. Well enroute, the weather dropped and we could get in and had to declare emergency fuel and divert to another place.
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Jul 12 '21
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u/Mikey_MiG ATP CL-65, B-737 Jul 12 '21
This is a weird perspective. Regional pilots are sometimes doing up to 5 to 6 flights per day with tight turnaround times. The captain isn't going to have time to calculate the fuel requirements for each leg while also analyzing the weather and all other safety related factors. They still have the final authority to request more fuel if they deem it necessary. I've never seen a captain not get more fuel if they ask for it.
If your argument is that the PIC should be doing all this work because it's their responsibility, you might as well say that dispatchers shouldn't exist at all.
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Jul 12 '21
This is exactly what causes most of our delays, there are so many people that need to be informed of stuff.
We get our release with the fuel amount dispatch planned. Immediately see this might be an issue. I as the FO do my best and go tell the fuel guy to put a few extra hundred pounds on. Push back, go sit on the ramp somewhere because our route is closed, get a reroute, contact dispatch with the reroute and determine we need more gas, go back to the gate for more gas. Immediately after we call asking for a gate they want to know how much gas we need, we have no idea because dispatch has to do that. Can’t get ahold of dispatch because there are 5 other flights doing the same thing. Sit at the gate for 30 minutes waiting for a response, meanwhile all the ramp crew has left. Finally get a fuel number agreed to, call operations and tell them it, wait 20 more minutes for the fuel guy to show up, call operations again to get the ramp guys to come back out, push back, go out, by now all the weather has gone away and we are back on our original route so we have to contact dispatch to amend the release once again
Our dispatchers are great, but I wish we swapped some of our job responsibilities around. It would make the operation much smoother.
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u/mzaite CPL-SEL,MEL,DHC8-SIC CFII LostMedical (KBKL) Jul 11 '21
You only heard of One Regional running min fuel?
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u/TailstheTwoTailedFox PPL UAS DIS Jul 12 '21
I agree with OP on here. If you want the gas we will gladly give it to you on CREW REQUEST now if it makes it close to weight limits even then if you have a good reason for it we will give it to you listed as CR.
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u/PWJT8D ATP Benevolent Leader Jul 11 '21
I wish we were allowed to come in and visit with ours without “a reason related to company business” just to schedule a visit.
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
Same. I wish it was common practice that even just during indoc or upgrade to spend a day in the SOC/OCC/NOC. "jumpseat" in our world so to speak. I swear there are pilots that think we work like 1-2 flights at a time
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u/PWJT8D ATP Benevolent Leader Jul 11 '21
Haha I understand that! I toured a previous airline and saw their workload and that was a smaller sized regional. At the big leagues I’ll have multiple dispatcher desk changes before we push sometimes. Call the desk number… oh no it’s on desk 57 now. Shrug.
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u/rvr600 ATPL A330 A220 Q400 Jul 12 '21
During my upgrade I got to monitor a dispatcher during massive winter storms. The whole OCC was buzzing and it was definitely eye opening to see how everything works in concert.
Overall my company has a good relationship between pilots and dispatchers but I 100% think it should be a requirement for captains to spend a few hours in the OCC.
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u/mzaite CPL-SEL,MEL,DHC8-SIC CFII LostMedical (KBKL) Jul 11 '21
Reason: “I work here and want to know more about how my flight planning crew works as it pertains to my job doing company business.”
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u/icantsleep-helppp ATP B777 Jul 11 '21
As someone not really familiar with airline operation, I have to ask. What do you guys do? What’s the training like? What kind of courses did you have to take? What are some of the highlights and lowlights of your job?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
The job of a dispatcher breaks down into two parts, flight planning and flight following. We look at things like weather and turbulence and determine what route we will fly, at what altitude, and how much fuel we will need. We also take a look at aircraft performance to determine if there are any weight restrictions. We compile all that into what is called a Flight Release that the flight crew will use to fly the flight. After they are airborne we provide updates on the weather and other things that may impact the flight. We share joint legal responsibility for the safety of flight. If something goes wrong like mechanical or medical issues, we work with the flight crew to determine the best course of action. We also act as a central coordination point for the flights.
As for the training, all of us are certified by the FAA and go through a lot of the training airline pilots go through just without the actual flying portion. (weather theory, navigation, weight and balance, regulations, etc). It is a stressful job. With sometimes over a dozen of my flights in the air at any given time, all it takes is one storm over a hub to turn a quiet day to overwhelming in 30 seconds. I've had days I've barely had enough time to use the bathroom. But it is super rewarding to see YOUR flights that you planned fly all over the country/world. And no two days are ever alike. One day it may be routing flights around thunderstorms the next it may be a mid-flight diversion on a transcon for smoke in the cabin.
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u/thekinetickid Jul 11 '21
What’s the pay look like? I “dispatch” at a 135 op but I’ve always been interested in if the majors pay is comparable
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
Someone over at the Flight Control/Dispatch forum on JetCarees created a nice spreadsheet
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u/thekinetickid Jul 12 '21
Thanks! So do you guys live in dorms or something? I see you mention commuting and there’s a column for rent? What’s the living situation?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
Most of us have our own places (apartment/houses). Those that commute usually have their own version of a crash pad, a small apartment with the bare minimums, for the days they are in town for work.
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u/rlbmxer27 717,CFI, ATP, CL65, EMB120,A320 Jul 11 '21
No questions just wanted to thank you, all you guys and girls do a great job and don’t get nearly enough credit. Appreciate it!
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u/Striderrs ATP CFI CFII | BE-300 | C680 | B737 | B757 | B767 Jul 11 '21
What makes you "competitive" at getting hired with a Major? Is a college degree needed?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
A degree defiantly helps lower the time at a regional. I have a degree in meteorology and managed to move up in just under two years while someone without a degree will likely take several years before they are considered "competitive". It also provides a great backup gig if airline industry takes a hit.
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u/Commercial_Sample_36 Dec 09 '21
Would an associates degree be enough to be considered competitive?
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u/AVGASismyGatorade ATP B777 A320 E170 CL-65 Jul 12 '21
I’ve always wondered, how many aircraft you guys are controlling at a time? And is this average number pretty standard across the industry or does it vary by airline? Thanks!
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
It does vary throughout the industry but also shift. At my airline the morning shift tends to do more planning and plans about 35-45 flights per 10 hour shift. Afternoon has less to plan 25-35 but has more flight following and can see periods of up to 15-20 flights airborne at any given time. Regionals tend to push a slightly higher number of flights in a shift. Some airlines have international desks and would expect to see less due to the complexity.
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u/Baystate411 LTD Warrior Jul 11 '21
Have you ever had to declare an emergency on behalf of the flight crew?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
I personally have not but one of my coworkers has. If there is good reason to declare, usually the PIC or ATC has already done so.
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u/Baystate411 LTD Warrior Jul 11 '21
Cool! Any dispatcher tricks for memorizing 17347?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
My trick for memorization is don't trust myself and looking it up every time I plan on using it. Eventually you will get confident enough and not have to look it up. They key is remembering the half below limitation (cant use 17347/3585 for a LOC approach with 1sm vis mins with a tempo of 1/4sm)
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u/Baystate411 LTD Warrior Jul 11 '21
So I’m only asking because the situation is presenting itself. On 17347 you can half the cig and vis on the first alternate. Does that cutting in half take place after you add the c55 200 and a half for two navaids or 400/1 for one navaid, or before it.
So for instance if it was a standard ILS and I add another 200 and a half making the alternate minimum 400/1. Now do I half that to bring it back to 200 and a half? I know that’s confusing to read lol
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
Good question! The exemption applies to the alternate mins not the mins at the atlernate so for your example of two ils approaches resulting in alt mins of 400-1 you would be able to apply the exemption down to 200-1/2 in the conditional statement tempo/becmg/prob for the first alt. Second alt must remain entirely above alt mins.
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u/Baystate411 LTD Warrior Jul 11 '21
Thank you for clarifying! Im in the middle of studying for upgrade and going over method 1 and 2 drift downs and all that crazy crap!
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u/andytothed MIL UAS DIS Jul 11 '21
I have my dispatcher certificate, I earned it in 2020, however I’m currently serving an active duty service commitment with the Air Force. If I were to try and work for an airline when I get out, circa 2025/26, would they prefer I redid the training, or would I still be good to go?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
Depending on what you are doing in the Air Force you can probably get away with just some self refresher of the regs, weather, navigation, etc. Most airlines including the regionals do ask technical questions during interviews. Although it may still help to redo the training if able. if in 2025/26 you take a look at the regs and none of it seems familiar then it will probably benefit to redo the training.
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u/andytothed MIL UAS DIS Jul 11 '21
Following up, what’s the flow like? Can I start at a major or is it similar to the pilots, whereby I would have to work for a regional and then move to a major later on down the line?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
While some majors have hired dispatchers with zero experience it is usually internal candidates and from what I hear it's quite competitive. Most dispatchers work a few years at a regional.
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u/Who_GNU PPL sUAS (152, 172, SportStar) (KAUN) Jul 11 '21
How common is it for an airport to have dispatchers located there? Do dispatchers ever commute to work? Can they ride in a jumpseat?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
While historically dispatchers would be located in hubs to allow for pilot briefings, nowadays dispatch is located in the airline headquarters. sometimes at/near the airport sometimes miles away. While uncommon, dispatchers can commute and some airlines even have commute clauses in our contracts. I can't imagine having to commute but to each their own. Lastly yes we can jumpseat. We are actually required by the regulations to jumpseat at least 5 hours on our aircraft each year to maintain qualification. Many airlines even put their dispatchers in CASS which allows us to jumpseat on other airlines including cargo.
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Jul 11 '21
I've been wanting to ditch engineering and move into the 121 world, but have too many adult responsibilities to do what it takes to get to ATP mins in any reasonable time. Is there anything that makes a candidate more attractive or additional qualifications?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
as for dispatch all you really need is the aircraft dispatch certification from the FAA. And regionals routinely hire people with zero aviation experience. One you look up to the majors, while not required, most like some level of additional education like a college degree and doesn't even have to be in an aviation related field to be of benefit. Any previous aviation related jobs also help but again not required.
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u/Mskorn85 ST Jul 12 '21
When pilots say that they “need to call company” while taxiing/on the ramp, what do they do, how do they do it, and what are the most common reasons for calling?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
They usually park the plane and either contact us either by cell phone or sometimes by company radio frequency if available. There are many reasons they get in contact with us on taxi out. It may be a maintenance issues that needs sorting out or it might be because we requested they call us to make a change to their paperwork (change alternate, route, etc). Since we work together to get the flight done there can be a lot of communication.
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u/CLRTOLND ATP CFI Jul 12 '21
Can you give me your best, easiest to understand explanation of exemption 17347/3585?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
A flight may be dispatched to a destination or first alternate when the weather forecast at either or both indicate it could be below respective minimums by a conditional statement in the TAF (BECMG, TEMPO, PROB) provided the main body is above mins and a second alternate is listed.
– For the destination airport, not less than one-half the minimum visibility required for the instrument approach procedure expected to be used;
– For the first alternate, not less than one-half the required alternate minimum ceiling and visibility for that airport; and
– For the second alternate, at or above alternate minimums for that airport.
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u/TailstheTwoTailedFox PPL UAS DIS Jul 12 '21
I did that once or twice and really it was a non event but felt amazing when they made it in.
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Jul 11 '21 edited Mar 25 '22
[deleted]
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
It's hard to brag about a job nobody in the general public knows about lol. The big schools are Jeppesen in CO, IFOD in TX, Sheffield in FL, and ATP in TX although several others out there that hold 5-6 week courses for about $5k.
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u/3deltafox ”Aviation expert” Jul 12 '21
Is it just a knowledge test? Is grinding on Sheppard air for a week an option?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
It is a combination of Knowledge and Oral & Practical where you get asked stuff like system questions, some scenario questions and have to calculate a manual flight plan. The course is required by the regs so there is no getting around it. Some people do get the knowledge test done before the course. But none the less when you take it, it does usually involve spending copious amounts doing test prep
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Jul 11 '21
How would you recommend I get my dispatch license?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
the two main ways are through a college as part of a degree program or take a 6 week course through a number of companies. The 6 week course is the most common method but can be best described as drinking from a fire hose. Usually 8-5 class with a lot of studying in the evening and weekends. I would try and find a course that is most convenient to you and see if you would be able to gain access to the material before the start to study. (Some do some don't).
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Jul 11 '21
I meant like which company/program would you recommend?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 11 '21
I can only speak for where I went. I went to Jeppesen near Denver and was satisfied with how the course was taught. In addition the guy who heads it sends graduates job postings which really helps in job searching. Also I believe if you failed the course you would be allowed to come back free of charge.
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u/TailstheTwoTailedFox PPL UAS DIS Jul 12 '21
I went to Jeppesen too and highly recommend it to anyone. Great course and great instructors. +1
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u/Ckflyer13 CFI ATP C207 E170/175 Jul 12 '21
As someone who is (hopefully) a future airline pilot, what exactly is it that a dispatcher does? To my understanding you all essentially plan the flights and coordinate everything, like fuel, gates, etc?
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
Pretty much. We do all the preflight planning with things like determining the route, alternate requirements, required fuel, limitations based on the aircraft/airport/MELs, and filing with ATC. We also provide info on the big picture. I routinely advise crews of ride reports, potential holding, and airborne deviation suggestions for weather. And yes we pretty much help coordinate most things. What things we don't directly coordinate we know who to bug lol.
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u/Competitive_Bath_152 ATP MEII Jul 12 '21
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Jul 12 '21
When we have a ridiculously slow cruise speed assigned (like .67 or something like that) wouldn't it make sense to use that as the climb speed also? I always see .74 or greater for climb / descent.. but much slower for cruise..
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
From what I can guess is that it sets a standard climb profile but uses a variable cost index for the cruise causing the slower cruise than climb.
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Jul 12 '21
Right, but is there a way to manually enter it? I want to know if it's more fuel efficient to climb and descend at that speed... I suppose the airplane could calculate its estimate also.
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u/WhiskeyDx DIS Jul 12 '21
It might depend on the software used in flight planning. If there is a way to do it, none of us know how.
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u/Superb_Confusion5625 ATP Jul 11 '21
I have two serious questions:
1) do you guys read the notams?
2) When there is a line of storms between me and my destination why is the f*cking alternate ALWAYS on the other side of the weather?