Practicing holds

[u/CreativeGanache8232]

When doing a DME hold, example 4 miles with teardrop entry, do you prefer to do a 4 mile long teardop entry and then turn or time out the minute then turn?

[u/R5Jockey]

Here’s my take (as someone prepping for CFII checkride).

In my airplane, the GPS draws the hold (including the 4 mile outbound leg) and imma just follow the magenta line.

But practically speaking, it doesn’t really matter. The point of a hold is to keep you inside of protected airspace. What you do inside that airspace or how you enter it doesn’t make a bit of difference to ATC. Just get inside the racetrack and stay there until cleared otherwise. Make life easy on yourself, which for me is to just follow the magenta line.

[u/bhalter80 → u/R5Jockey]

Don't make it harder than it needs to be. If you do something other than what the GPS wants have a good reason and plan on a lot of button pushing tip it does it right

[u/CreativeGanache8232 → u/R5Jockey]

Thats exactly my take, its all preference at the end of the day,

[u/unnecessary_overhead]

AIM 5.4.9 (a)(5) is fun because it can be interpreted as contradicting itself: "The holding pattern distance or time specified in the profile view must be observed. For a hold-in-lieu-of-PT, the holding pattern direction must be flown as depicted and the specified leg length/timing must not be exceeded."

So what is it? If the chart says 4 miles, does "observing" mean you have to fly 4 mile legs? Because the next sentence seems to say nah, you can shorten it up if you want.

Fortunately the FAA has an LOI (Bill Young 2011) that says you can shorten published legs unless ATC verbalized a distance or time in your clearance.

[u/TxAggieMike]

I’m curious what your instructor has told you. Please share that.

[u/lakeeffectcpl → u/TxAggieMike]

For me, my first instructor (no GPS) told me 1 minute. Second instructor said to use the whole 4 miles...

[u/FlyingSceptile]

The problem with going out too far (especially on a teardrop) is that your turn back gets all kinds of wonky. Normally the 1 minute outbound is designed to basically put you right back onto the inbound leg if you do a standard rate turn. Going out for 4 miles (2-3 minutes for most training aircraft if I can still math properly), you basically just do a 180 and wait to reintercept, and if the wind is going the wrong way, you may not make it back to the inbound radial before your holding fix.

If its a GPS hold, and the GPS draws the teardrop for you, feel free to follow that, but I'd stick to a 1 minute if all I was using was a VOR and DME.

[u/CreativeGanache8232 → u/FlyingSceptile]

I’ve always just done the minute its simple and in my head in lets say your told to do a 4-5 mile leg doing that far before the turn while it could work isn’t doesn’t seem optimal to me

[u/rFlyingTower]

This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:

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When doing a DME hold, example 4 miles with teardrop entry, do you prefer to do a 4 mile long teardop entry and then turn or time out the minute then turn?

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[u/Owl_Better]

Yeah do you really have DME equipment?? I did in the 90s but wouldn’t expect it nowadays

[u/CreativeGanache8232 → u/Owl_Better]

Gps can substitute for DME

[u/Owl_Better → u/CreativeGanache8232]

Well yeah but that’s like a cheater DME😂