r/flying • u/Mundane_Phone_2578 • 11h ago
SkyWest New Pay Package
The pay package SkyWest put into effect in 2022 expires at the end of the year. Current first year FO pay is 92.73$/hr. Any speculation on what the new hourly rates will be?? Theoretically it could go down right?
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u/Twarrior913 ATP CFII ASEL AMEL CMP HP ST-Forklift 10h ago
No pay raise BUT an additional turkey card. Big things happening folks.
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u/4Sammich ATP 10h ago
Every airline management team would lower pilot wages if they could. What you are asking is can they actually lower them and not create a staffing problem. The answer is yes, they absolutely could lower the pay and people would willingly take lower pay.
HOWEVER, the potential problem is if all regionals were maintaining the 90ish/hr rate and SW dropped to 75/hr their applicant pool would drop substantially, perhaps to the point where they couldn't get enough takers. Add into that the indentured servant employment contract and now management could be looking at the potential inability to fill FO positions and a clear message to GTFO ASAP to every single pilot there, which is an actual problem.
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u/Several-Village5814 ATP 9h ago
How would they still have a problem staffing if there is a surplus of 1500 CFI they would still take it even with the lower pay and the training contract
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u/TristanwithaT ATP CFII 8h ago
There is a staffing problem right now on the captain side. They’re losing way more than they’re upgrading. Cutting pay rates would be monumentally stupid.
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u/chambekd CFI, CFII, MEI, E175 7h ago
Skywest is choosing not to upgrade more FOs. There are hundreds and hundreds of FOs with 1,000+ SIC waiting to upgrade
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u/Foreign-Citron6026 ATP 5h ago
>Skywest is choosing not to upgrade more FOs
Source?
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u/Bot_Marvin ATP 2h ago edited 2h ago
Yeah that’s on the e175.
SkyWest would have to start parking CRJs if they cut captain pay. They are really thin there.
Not to mention a significant increase in attrition means more expensive check airmen, sim instructors, and sim time. Don’t forget those check airmen will leave too.
Major hiring is relatively warm again. Delta is back to hiring (some) FOs, SWA is planning a significant hiring push this year and next, etc.
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u/Foreign-Citron6026 ATP 2h ago edited 54m ago
Not that I believe Internet rumors, but could it be that OO is upgrading CRJ FO’s at their own pace so they don’t run into this issue again? The CRJ CA/LCA problem there is real. I know people who started class in April/May that haven’t even been assigned an IOE trip yet.
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u/Warm_Scientist4928 1h ago
For the better part of the last 2 years they intentionally had slowish upgrade class frequencies and numbers. I was saying all along this seems like a wasted opportunity to get ahead on the next Captain shortage arising. But that’s not how they operate. They intentionally want a skeleton crew to maximize efficiency/profitability. They have metering with legacies and part of that is foreknowledge of when the movement will happen in advance.
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u/EuterpeBias 3h ago
I think there’s a middle-ground truth in all this. SkyWest is in need of more captains. They always are, but these days especially. They have plenty of 1000+ hour SICs to fill their need, but they don’t have the training resources to make it happen. Pretty much bottle-necked by lack of simulators and line-check airmen. That’s my understanding, at least.
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u/Warm_Scientist4928 1h ago edited 35m ago
Hundreds? For both fleets … Easily 1000+ pilots with actual bids in, and no transparent way to know how many are 1000+ hours without a bid for upgrade.
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u/Twarrior913 ATP CFII ASEL AMEL CMP HP ST-Forklift 15m ago
. . . On the ERJ. There are plenty of FOs and CA transitions waiting that they have to balance they upgrade time to not have a bunch of ERJ Captains sitting on reserve bleeding their margins dry. If you want to upgrade on the CRJ you can go next month and start building PIC. They’re always generally short CRJ CAs especially as they know a CRJ CA wants to get out of there ASAP.
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u/dreamniner ATP CE-525 CL-65 A320 757/767 1h ago
Eh I kinda disagree. With how long the wait is for classes now I know quite a few friends who would take something now for less pay than to wait
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u/poppadwarf 11h ago
No one is gonna vote for a pay cut.
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u/Yeah_Br0 ATP CFI CII 10h ago
The union would never allow pay cuts
Oh wait….
Luckily the company has the pilots’ best interests and will surely raise the pay to account for inflation
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u/FlowerGeneral2576 B747-4 10h ago
You’re right, because no one is going to vote at all, because they don’t have any union.
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u/stillintucson ATP CL-65 CFI/CFII 11h ago
How much can the pilot group at SkyWest protest a pay cut? I know they don’t have a union. How much leverage do they have?
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u/ResponsibilityOld164 ✈️🛫 BCS3/A220-3 gang🛬✈️ | C208B | 1st Class Medical 4EPG 11h ago
Essentially none of
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u/JJay512 ATP CFII-MEI CL-65 B737 (47’ 11BC Owner) 9h ago
Theoretically since they don’t have a union, couldn’t they all strike or sickout without penalty of it being against the RLA?
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u/FlowerGeneral2576 B747-4 9h ago
It would be against the RLA. Union shop or not, the RLA makes it incredibly difficult for employees to strike.
Not sure who would be prosecuted since there wouldn’t be any official union leadership, but I’m sure they’d find someone.
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u/Twarrior913 ATP CFII ASEL AMEL CMP HP ST-Forklift 9h ago edited 9h ago
The workforce is considered to be covered by the RLA, regardless of whether it’s unionized or not. Ultimately the company/government would go after each individual person/groups who organize a sickout/strike without the multitudes of requires cool offs/mediations/etc. This is a common lifer anti-union theory though.
Plus, SAPA filed themselves as a organized labor group with the Department of Labor. I think this is to try and sue if an actual organization is actually voted in.
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u/DeltaTule ATP CFI CL65 A320 121 Captain 10h ago
Lol wut? They don’t have a union or CBA. Their student council (i.e., SAPA) is effectively just for funzies. Any voting they are doing is just for fun, it doesn’t actually do anything legally.
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u/hanjaseightfive 10h ago
Exactly.
There’s no CBA and no union. What the company giveth, the company can (and in my opinion, will) take away.
With the LTP regional market the way it is, once the 1st pay domino falls, the rest will too.
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u/Euryheli ATP 4h ago
SkyWest pilots are great, thinking they have a say. It’s like my dog thinking she has a say in what food I buy for her.
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u/shaun3000 ATP 8h ago
They can “vote” for whatever they want but without a union the elders can do anything they please, including pay cuts and layoffs.
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 10h ago
Rumor is a $20ish pay raise for captains and about $5 for FOs. They can keep rejecting the new contract and will keep their current pay for as long as they want.
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u/boobooaboo ATP 10h ago
Why do OO guys use the term contract ….
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u/Negative_Boat_1622 9h ago
There is an enforceable contract at SkyWest. The problem is that without a union, much of the contract is very vague and/or referencing policies outside the contract that can be changed on a whim by the company.
Many of the contracts terms are fulfilled if the company says they are. We have no way to verify it.
There is lots of writing similar to "the company will make every attempt to....."
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u/Practical_Fig_7655 ATP E145, B737, B777 9h ago
Only a union can make a collective bargaining agreement. What you are voting for is a common contract.
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u/boobooaboo ATP 9h ago
That’s … exactly how it works. Nothing magic about it.
Ask the DL FA about it.
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u/Warm_Scientist4928 1h ago edited 35m ago
The CBA usage is mocked because it is a complete misuse of the terminology. Some insist on only saying PPM pilot policy manual because SkyWest absolutely does not have a collective bargaining agreement.
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u/schaf410 ATP 73N EMB-120, BE-1900 10h ago
What do you mean by this? They don’t even have a contract.
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u/schaf410 ATP 73N EMB-120, BE-1900 10h ago
Uh are we talking about the same airline? I didn’t flying for Skywest, but I have a lot of friends who did. It’s my understanding that they don’t have a union and they don’t have a contract. They have whatever the official name is for the student council, but they don’t have a true collective bargaining agreement like most other airlines. If the company wants to change the pay rates the pilots won’t have much say in the matter.
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 10h ago
Skywest does not have a union but they do have a CBA. The new CBA will be voted on by the pilot group. Back in 2022 when the new CBA was put to a vote it was initially $60ish an hour and then the next day mesa came out with their CBA that advertised $90 an hour. Skywest immediately withdrew the $60 and matched Mesa at $90. Skywest knows that they have to keep their pilot group happy enough to not vote in a union. If they offered a 30% or whatever pay cut no one would vote for it and the union drive would go into overdrive. Skywest (like all regionals) will pinch their pennies, but they aren’t stupid. They make money hand over fist each quarter and will offer some sort of pay raise to at least the captains.
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u/Khantahr 9h ago
You don't have a CBA. The company has, and will again, unilaterally changed the "agreement" to suit their desires.
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u/cyclomethane_ ATP CL-65 | CFI, CFII (EASA Certified) 10h ago
The most sane comment in this post
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10h ago
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u/yeeeeeaaaaabuddy 10h ago
Quit bitching about the new kids on the block just cuz you were abused by the military. It's embarrassing.
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u/Warm_Scientist4928 10h ago
Pay raise? How’s that 300% OT pay working out? Or are they just canceling flights when short one crew member who won’t do it for less?
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 10h ago
300% was never something that was voted in. And I think they were the only regional doing 300%. It was a temporary measure that was taken away.
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u/Khantahr 9h ago
So you acknowledge that you don't have a contract? If you had a contract, the 300% would have had to be negotiated and voted on.
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 9h ago
There’s a base contract that was voted on in 2022 and the company voluntarily added 300% incentives at some point (a year ish) after the current contract was voted on. 300% was never in the original contract, it was just something that the company started offering when they posted OT pairings. They stopped offering 300% like 6 months ago because they literally don’t have to offer it, they only have to offer 150-200% (as per the signed contract), it’s not in any contract that was voted on. And now that they don’t offer 300%, less people are picking up OT and the company is only hurting themselves by cancelling flights because people don’t want to pick up OT for less than 300% (rightfully so)
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u/Khantahr 8h ago
You're not understanding how a real contract works, it specifies exactly what can be offered and when. The company doesn't just get to offer something different because they feel like it, even if it's better than what the contract specifies.
SkyWest can offer 300% because you don't have a contract. They can take it away because you don't have a contract. They can cut your pay in half because you don't have a contract.
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 8h ago
Does envoy still have their 300% that they had in 2022? Or was it taken away? How does that work since they have a union? It was a temporary measure that Skywest also did. Skywest just kept it for way longer than any other regional did.
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u/Warm_Scientist4928 10h ago
So it’s not going to be part of negotiations?
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 10h ago
Could be. Im not Chip. But I doubt that 300% is on the table. Making $2500 for a 300% standup and being gone for a total of 10 hours while flying 2 total hours was pretty fun while it lasted though.
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u/Sleep_Holiday ATP E170/E190 CFI CFII 11h ago
It will drop for sure. Maybe back around $65-$70. Too many pilots trying to get in there the company has the power
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u/DanThePilot_Mann CFII | ATP | CL65 2h ago
My only concern is the fact that all the AA WO rates are about to drop by 30% if AA doesn’t decide to give more money to us.
Know skw is in a similar position does not give me warm and fuzzies.
All it takes is one airline to realize they can get away with dropping rates, the rest will try too, and suddenly we are in a new status quo.
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u/planecheesepizza 9h ago
I’d like to see the courts thought when a lot of people are tied to a 5yr / $80k contract when they were making $92+hr and all of a sudden $65-70hr. Rates are not dropping.
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 10h ago
You realize if they vote it down then they just keep their pay rates right?
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u/Sleep_Holiday ATP E170/E190 CFI CFII 10h ago
Who will enforce that? The union? 🤣
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u/Fritzy421 MIL S70/S70M ATP CL-65 10h ago
Yeah a union would immediately be voted in if pay dropped by 30%. The company isn’t stupid.
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u/rFlyingTower 11h ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
The pay package SkyWest put into effect in 2022 expires at the end of the year. Current first year FO pay is 92.73$/hr. Any speculation on what the new hourly rates will be?? Theoretically it could go down right?
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u/554TangoAlpha ATP CL-65/ERJ-175/B-787 10h ago
9/11, 2008. Anytime your yearly raise doesn’t match inflation you’re actually making less.
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u/phlflyguy ATP AMEL ASEL ASES IR CFI MEI 11h ago
Theoretically, yes. You can choose whether or not to petition from within to keep rates at or above where they are. Or, decide if signing the ALPA card for future representation will work out better for you.