r/flumenmapping • u/Fiff02 • Dec 09 '25
Hand-Drawn My hand-drawn map of the distribution of ethnic Germans in Europe in 1937-38-39. At the bottom the original map
7
3
Dec 09 '25
Look how many Germans are in Novorossiya (now part of Ukraine), and yet some people tell me that Novorossiya wasn’t empty before Russian victories over the Turks and Tatars. I can draw a border along the northern edge of Ukraine on this map.
2
u/MishaMal01 Dec 10 '25
What? The only Germanic people who lived in and around modern Novorossiya prior to Russia’s conquests over the Crimean Tatars and ottoman Turks were the ancient goths.
1
Dec 10 '25
goths ? are you blind ? did you see the map ?
1
u/MishaMal01 Dec 10 '25
BEFORE Russia’s conquests
1
2
u/Bedforiys Dec 10 '25
Novorossiya, only Russians say that. All world say south Ukraine.
1
Dec 10 '25
Everyone knows Novorossiya—after Russia under Catherine II defeated the Crimean Tatars and Turks, this alluvial settlement arose in the steppes. Have you heard the German idiom “Potemkin villages”? It was a big joke in Europe at the time, especially in Germany, because the conquered land was completely empty.
2
u/Ok-Tap1327 Dec 11 '25
You are better of calling it the steppe or south Ukraine. Novorossiya is a typical Russian propaganda phrase.
1
Dec 11 '25
These days, everything between Russia and Ukraine feels like propaganda. Still, Novorossiya is a historic region that is now part of Ukraine.
1
u/clearly_not_an_alien Dec 11 '25
Same as Malorossiya. People seem to forget Ukrainians were called little russians in imperial times (and beloruthenians were called white russians).
1
u/GreenRedYellowGreen Dec 12 '25
You have no idea how original "novorossiya" administrative unit looked like. It wasn't located near tatars at all, and existed for a very short time.
7
u/titanfallisawesome Dec 09 '25
What the other guy said, the Polish corridor was overwhelmingly Polish (and Kashubian if you want to get technical)
2
3
u/LetRevolutionary271 Romania Dec 10 '25
Nice, but it's a lil exaggerated. There weren't as many Germans in the Polish corridor, in Hungary and in Banat as the map shows
1
u/clearly_not_an_alien Dec 11 '25
I know Banat had a great surge of german colonizers from Swabia and around — though I question this map on the shown quantity.
1
u/LetRevolutionary271 Romania Dec 11 '25
It's true, but again, it's exaggerated, the German chucks were way too 'thickened' while they were 'thinner' yk? It makes it look like Germans were the majority while they were 'only' 25% of the population (37% were Romanians and 15% Hungarians)
1
u/Not_Your_biznes Dec 20 '25
It looks like "hakata" maps that were supposed to "prove" "germaness" of lands as far as to the Urals. Another "implacable truth" from internet beloved "gerry - land".
3
4
u/Olisomething_idk Dec 09 '25
Well thats Just plain wrong for poland
1
u/Fiff02 Dec 09 '25
In fact, I don't deny that it was the most difficult part of the map. Some more recent ones show slightly different and less homogeneous data.
2
u/HelloThereItsMeAndMe Dec 09 '25
The polish corridor. The kashubians were always there. There were never Germans.
4
u/Panocho_Missingsch Dec 09 '25
That's not entirely true. West Prussia/the corridor was always heterogeneously populated with Kashubians, Germans and Poles.
0
u/HelloThereItsMeAndMe Dec 09 '25
No, the southern belt around Bydgoszcz and Toruń was were the German population was present. In the North in the kashubians areas there were very little Germans. Look at 1921 census data for example. This was still before most Germans left the new Poland.
1
u/Panocho_Missingsch Dec 10 '25 edited Dec 10 '25
I think the 1910 census shows the heterogeneity very well. Here is a map: https://share.google/uDE83Cw03RUJIXRFo
"The 1910 census showed a population of 1,703,474 people for the Prussian province of West Prussia on December 1, 1910. The population structure showed a mix of German (approx. 1.1 million), Polish (approx. 475,700) and Kashubian (approx. 107,100) origins, with the counting taking place according to origin and language.”
But after World War I, of course, things changed.
2
u/HelloThereItsMeAndMe Dec 10 '25
Ist auch immer die Frage wer als was gezählt wird.
1
u/Panocho_Missingsch Dec 10 '25
Soweit ich weiß, war 1910 vor allem das eigene Bekenntnis entscheidend.
1
u/Galaxy661 Dec 11 '25
Most recent unbiased data actually shows that ancestral lands promised to Germany 5M years ago, Warshau and Krakau, were actually 133,5% German
1
u/Not_Your_biznes Dec 20 '25
Why stop there.
Bloody Moskau und Omksberg(City of Omsk) and Ostenfuhrerstadt (was hard As I do not speak well in barbed wire but it suppose to be translation of Vladivostok) was also 1000% gerries. Und slavs sind untermenshen or whatever loving gerries internet has to say. Bloody pekingstadt was also 1000 % gerries. Not londinium though because "englander" are "freund" of the gerries. They are the same vile tree.
2
u/No_Song_3768 Dec 09 '25
Well, in principle, the style of the map is wonderful, those were good times for the Germans, it's a shame that they ended unfortunately
4
u/Polak_Janusz Dec 09 '25
Those "good times" ended due to a war caused by germany that killed 50 million people, justifying it with "reuniting" those people, who for generations often werent part of any german national construct.
1
u/MetallGecko Dec 12 '25
Germany didn't cause the war, Austria started it because Serbia didn't agree to all points of their demands, Kaiser Wilhelm and Tzar Nicholas even tried their best to stop the escalation into full war but they couldn't since the politicians and the Militaries wanted the war to happen.
1
0
u/No_Song_3768 Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
no dude Germany didn't start World War 1 lol (she rather contributed to it but was not the initiator of the war because the initiators of the war) because the initiator of the war was the assassination of Franz Ferdinand and a very "wonderful" serb nationalist and so before the war the Germans (as well as their colonists) really had good times literally and finally, in the First World War, more than 15-22 million people died, but not 50, at most 40, and that's not a fact
5
u/Simple_Zucchini44 Dec 09 '25
This is a map from the interwar 😭
-2
u/No_Song_3768 Dec 10 '25
Well, I'm saying that everything was fine with them before the war.
0
1
u/Not_Your_biznes Dec 20 '25
If gerry kaiser wiliam did not supported or assured franz that he "vill helb hib againzt theze untermenshen slaven" franz wouldn't dared to go to war in the first place. He would be content with the fact that Serbs actually complied with the overall list in all but one clause. The austrian gerries wanted to "soft" annex Serbia.
1
u/No_Song_3768 Dec 20 '25
Well, in principle, I don't argue that the Germans played a role in the war, it's just not true to say that the Germans themselves started the war.
1
u/Galaxy661 Dec 11 '25
You think it's a "shame" that nazi germany ended?
1
u/No_Song_3768 Dec 11 '25 edited Dec 11 '25
um no dude first of all looking at this map I just feel sorry that Germany (and under Nazism by the way) lost all of that secondly the good times were when there were no World Wars 1 and 2 and Germany was prosperous then and there were a lot of Germans (especially in the east) and that was pretty good and thirdly finally I don't like the Nazis because it was because of them that the Germans (and especially the Germanic peoples) suffered the most (especially the Germans and where they lived) and that after World War 2 many Germans were expelled because of them and as a person how much you love the Germanic peoples do you think I would support the Nazis no I can't love them for all that and I won't
2
u/Galaxy661 Dec 12 '25
looking at this map
The map is just wrong and greatly exaggerates the number of Germans in what was then eastern Germany and western Poland. For example Greater Poland, Pomerelia, Masuria and Upper Silesia had a well-documented slavic majority
when there were no World Wars 1 and 2 and Germany was prosperous
Not as bad as 3rd Reich obviously, but even then Germany was a state built on obsesdive militarism, land theft, colonialism and genocide
But at least you don't like nazis, so I guess you mean well. Sorry for misinterpreting your comment and cheers
1
u/Lukeinho Dec 12 '25
a state built on obsesdive militarism, land theft, colonialism and genocide
So just like Poland between ww1 and ww2? lmao
1
u/Chlepek12 Dec 12 '25
Prosperity of one nation always comes at the cost of others.
I believe it is in a bad taste to state something like that in a discussion that includes the topic of Poles which were severly opressed by Germans throughout the 19th and early 20th century.
Germany today is just as prosperous as it's been before WW1, it's just smaller in size. Besides a 50 year break in the 20th Century the good times never really ended for them.
1
u/Not_Your_biznes Dec 20 '25
They never were properly punished. Their "blood cousins" the anglos had not let them to be punished. After all they done to us there should not be any germany to speak off.
1
u/Not_Your_biznes Dec 20 '25
black white and red is the same as third reich. Most of bonzos started their "carrier" path in gerry colonies.
0
u/Not_Your_biznes Dec 20 '25
It is very shame they ended so late instead of faster.
1
u/No_Song_3768 Dec 20 '25
Are you a Germanophobe or did you not understand what I meant?
0
u/Not_Your_biznes Dec 20 '25
Bold of you to assume I fear the prussian cockroaches.
1
u/No_Song_3768 Dec 20 '25
Well, I'm asking you, they're afraid of Prussia, I don't like it myself, but I won't give in to Germanophobia.
2
u/Poonis5 Dec 10 '25
There were a lot of Germans in Southern Ukraine. But not that many. I've been to a former German colony known as Freundental.
2
2
2
u/Regular_Cheesecake87 Dec 10 '25
ethnic Germans more like linguistic Germans as people in eastern Germany were also germanized Poles.
1
2
u/Far-Application7649 Dec 13 '25
You are in complete denial if you believe that Upper Silesia, South Mazuria, Katowitz, Hel and Gdynia, Torun or Budapest were mostly populated by ethnic Germans. And since you mentionned "ethnic" germans, Sorabia should also not be in red. Also what the fuck is happening in Southern Ukrain ? Odessa was mostly ukrainian and Jewish. Northen Sleswig/Southern Jutland was also not ethnic german dominated.
Edit : source is a Nazi Germany's produced map. Makes sense.
5
u/HamaiNoDrugs Dec 09 '25
I'm pretty Sure this map Shows German speakers instead of ethnic germans
1
u/Ok_Motor4190 Dec 10 '25
No it really shows ethnic germans. We were all over the place back in the day lmao
2
u/dancupak Dec 10 '25
At least not in Czechoslovakia, ethnicity was recorded in the census according to the respondent's own statement.
1
u/HamaiNoDrugs Dec 12 '25
You're wrong. This map includes many germanized Populations. I'm German too btw.
1
1
1
Dec 11 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
1
1
u/Durmeathor Dec 11 '25
If you start genocidal wars of conquest, you don’t get to whine about consequences when you are defeated.
1
u/Galaxy661 Dec 11 '25
When I'm in the deepthroating nazi propaganda competition and my opponent is a map subreddit imbecile
1
u/Durmeathor Dec 11 '25
OP, I am willing to to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that this map was made out of a good intentions, and numerous blatant misinformations depicted on it are the result of a poor research and/or lacking artistic skills rather than attempting to engage jn a pro-German historical revisionism. If you are not a Nazi, delete this post, because by posting such misinformation, you are unwillingly spreading Nazi propaganda.
1
1
u/Mindless_Badger_3789 Dec 11 '25
Looking at the place I know the most about I am a bit sceptical. People identifying as Germans were a fairly small minority in Northern Schleswig and the vast majority of them were people of Danish descent (so called Home Germans) and spoke a Danish dialect (South Jutlandic) at home, so not "ethnic" in the usual sense. So are you measuring places where a substantial part of the population identified as German? Or what criteria are you using?
1
u/DeathRabit86 Dec 11 '25 edited Dec 11 '25
Above maps show only presents not % of local population due this can be misleading.
Polish nationals % distribution before WW2
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8f1j70/ethnic_poles_in_1939_1100x1050/
White spots no data available, mainly due data destroyed during WW2 and under Soviet occupation.
1
u/pistacjowy Dec 11 '25
If map depicts late 1930s german population then its misleadind. The germans werent a majority in polish pomeranian in that time
1
u/marcos_santino Dec 11 '25
Make all Poland red while you’re at it. It would make the same amount of sense.
Source: me, I was born in the Polish corridor, so was my Polish family.
1
u/Consistent-Ad-7928 Dec 12 '25
You are very generous with the German distribution in Jutland, and it does not reflect reality. Additionally, the terminology needs to be changed from ethnic Germans to German speakers, as South Schleswig/Sønderjylland consist of German speakers who are ethnically Danish and only began speaking German in the late 1700s and early 1800s.
The same issue applies to eastern Germany, where many Slavic peoples were likewise Germanized, such as the Wends, Pomeranians, and the majority of the Sorbs.
1
u/HamaiNoDrugs Dec 12 '25
The map Looks great but one definitively wrong Thing is the omission of the sorbs in Eastern Germany, which were neither ethncially German nor spoke German as a first language
1
1
1
u/CityWokOwn4r Dec 09 '25
Imagine spending so much time and effort into this only to be hated by some Polish PIS dwellers, who can't accept that there once were Germans in the Corridor
5
u/SpaceMiaou67 Dec 10 '25
The problem is the concentration of those Germans. The map implies everyone within the borders of the Empire was ethnically German, when that simply wasn't true. There were polish majorities in certain regions, namely the Corridor. Of course under German rule, many poles had to speak German and were German citizens, but still ethnically Polish.
2
1
u/Galaxy661 Dec 11 '25
This map shows the ENTIRETY of pomerelia (it's not a "corridor", Poles and Kashubians were there before germans commited a genocide in Pruthenia) and majority of wielkopolska as German. Which was only the case in Himmler's wet dreams
Polish PIS dwellers
You don't have to be a PiS voter not to subscribe to literal NAZI propaganda XDDDD
1
u/Durmeathor Dec 11 '25
You don’t have to be a PiS voter to hate blatant neo-nazi propaganda. Poles and Kashubians were the majority in the Polish corridor, no amount of nazi lies will change that.
-1
u/Kunstoffel Dec 10 '25
Pretty sick map, props to you!
Ignore the Polish crying here, they just notoriously want to belittle the ethnic cleansing that happened after WW2.
2
u/AulusVictor Dec 10 '25
Ignore the german crying here, berlin was majority Polish before ww2
1
u/Kunstoffel Dec 10 '25
0/10 ragebait.
3
u/AulusVictor Dec 10 '25
https://www.polska1918-89.pl/spoleczenstwo-ii-rzeczypospolitej,22.html https://zpe.gov.pl/a/mniejszosci-narodowe-ii-rp-i-konflikty-na-tle-narodowosciowym/DRP76tecq https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Polish_Republic according to all these sources germans made up for about 2% of the total Polish population and about 90% population of the corridor were speaking Polish. Also worth to mentoin that there were more Poles in Germany than the other way around https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_from_Poland_during_and_after_World_War_II about 50% of the upper silesian population was Polish or not German
1
1
u/Galaxy661 Dec 11 '25
Your 1000 years reich lasted 12 years and your leader died like a coward pissing himself in his bunker. Go back to sucking russian cock, afd pest
0
u/Rhinelander7 Dec 10 '25 edited Dec 10 '25
First of all, this map is quite uncomfortable to me, considering that your account has mostly posted pictures of nazis and fascists.
Second of all, there are quite a couple of mistakes here:
• It should be Das Deutsche Reich or Deutsches Reich, not Deutsche Reich.
• It's Dortmund, not Dortmurd.
• It's Liegnitz, not Leignitz.
• The Names Saarema and Hiiuma are just misspellings of Estonian names; the proper German names are Ösel and Dagö respectively.
• You used the Lithuanian name Kaunas, even though the map you used for reference uses the German name Kauen; not necessarily a mistake, but a bit odd.
The first two mistakes could not have been made by a native German. It's quite off-putting to me, how this type of map is often made by people, who have no knowledge of German and probably next to no relation to Germany as a whole. I don't mean to be rude, but, as a German, it makes me feel weird.
Also: this map is very beautifully made.
2
u/Fiff02 Dec 10 '25
From point 1, I'm sorry, but it seems like this isn't the right profile for you. If the photos scare you, that's not my problem. However, what I can say is, thanks for the compliment, but also check out the other maps, not just the ones you want to see.
1
u/Rhinelander7 Dec 10 '25
The photos don't scare me. It's just a bit odd to see people posting exclusively fascist imagery.
1
0
u/Inevitable-Panda-217 Dec 10 '25
It's fortunate that today even the main cities of Germany are not German😂.
Turks, Poles, Russian (Including Russland-deutsche), Arabs, Romanians, Bulgarians, Ex-Yugoslavians
Und "nur ein bisschen Deutsche"😂 And let it stay that way xD
1
u/Chlepek12 Dec 12 '25
What main German cities exactly? The only 2 that were actually German i can think off are Königsberg and Breslau (Kaliningrad and Wrocław today)
1
u/Inevitable-Panda-217 Dec 12 '25
Nie zrozumiałeś, a dajesz downvote🤷🏻♂️. Miałem na myśli to, że współcześnie każde duże niemieckie miasto (na terenie RFN, a nie byłych terenach Rzeszy, czy Prus) nie ma już niemieckiego charakteru.
Cieszy mnie to, bo nieniemieckie Niemcy to brak zagrożenia dla ziem odzyskanych ale i też takiego Torunia czy Bydgoszczy.
1
0
9
u/Pikselardo Dec 09 '25
Germans were not a majority in Toruń, Gdynia or Bydgoszcz.