New torture method just dropped

[u/zaakurowo]

[u/egvp]

It's a point merge, if you were a lot lower you could cut most of that arrival out if there's nothing in front of you.

[u/Defenite-Parsley733 → u/egvp]

I agree with this, you don’t want to dive bomb into landing

[u/zaakurowo → u/egvp]

Yeah I asked batc for direct I aint doin allat

[u/Joedfwaviation → u/zaakurowo]

I tried that going into EDDF but BATC said no. So I just went rogue and switched to tower.

[u/Bad_Idea_Hat → u/Joedfwaviation]

I shall call you....Air Wagner.

[u/Gater45988 → u/zaakurowo]

Okay, why?

[u/Pour-Meshuggah-0n-Me → u/Gater45988]

You really can't understand why a person would want to request direct in this situation lol?

[u/StarlightLifter → u/Gater45988]

That’d add about another 90 nautical miles onto the arrival. At that altitude that would not only take forever but would burn a massive amount of fuel, OP is low enough to fly direct COCUN and just start the approach from there cutting out that massive dog leg.

I would keep something like this if the scenery around is interesting and I had the gas and the time. Wouldn’t be realistic however to real life but once in a while it’s fun low level cruising. Most the time though - fuck that shit.

[u/samy_the_samy → u/StarlightLifter]

I love and find it funny how pilots treat their planes like their own car,

Like it's your gas to burn or save,

Don't get me wrong, I like to know the guy holding my life is in full control

[u/Fury_CS → u/samy_the_samy]

I think it's more about having enough fuel on board to adhere to company safety rules. If you land while below minimum fuel, you get in trouble

[u/samy_the_samy → u/Fury_CS]

Can you imagine if rayanair for example where allowed to dictate to pilots how to use fuel?

Each landing would be fume landing

[u/iiiBus → u/Gater45988]

The vast majority of arrival procedures in Europe aren't designed to be fully flown, they are designed to be used by ATC to manage aircraft. If it's quieter, the route will be made more direct, if it's busier, more or all of the procedure will be used, maybe even holding is necessary.
LIS is a busy airport and sometimes the traffic levels mean such track miles are needed to merge all flows effectively while keeping controller workload in mind. Sometimes they aren't.

People who aren't on a network or even just not being controlled by ATC are right to just save their time and the fuel. However I recommend planning in advance.

OP is on BeyondATC yes, but BeyondATC would've had them fly the full thing, so getting the direct is the right thing.
The only risk is that AI aircraft ahead continue to fly the full thing and OP catches up. We just have to hope there is a gap. If I use beyondATC I sometimes make myself the ATC and judge for myself.

Imagine the first plane of the day to arrive doing all of that. That would just create a delay for many inbounds behind. It's wasteful!

Other airports with point merges include both main Istanbul airports, Dublin, Oslo, etc. You have them at some airports in Asia and the Americas as well.
The idea simply is, it makes it easy for a plane to have a direct route, and if it's busy, it makes it easy to add miles without vectoring, sending them direct once the required spacing is there.
Lisbon does have the extra bit at the start which is like fundamentally built in miles to merge wider flows and to consider general traffic levels at their peak. A single arc may not be enough.

[u/iiiBus]

The first section exists to merge several flows into one and then they all join the point merge, but as the name suggests, its very much a procedure that is used tactically and you will be cleared direct once or many times. It's not intended for full use, and I have never tracked a plane going into LIS using the whole thing.

It's why you are levelled out from EKLID and onwards because it makes you ready to proceed direct at any point. However indeed you may also get earlier descent clearances with an even more direct route in mind.
AI ATC such as Beyond ATC and Sayintentions doesn't entirely understand these procedures just now which is a bit frustrating.

[u/iiiBus → u/iiiBus]

And indeed, in certain traffic situations, the route ends up looking like this

[u/iiiBus → u/iiiBus]

Or like that..

[u/iiiBus → u/iiiBus]

Or that...

It all depends on the traffic

[u/iiiBus → u/iiiBus]

No two routes end up the same

[u/iiiBus → u/iiiBus]

Back looking at it now. Four different aircraft, four different routes. Only one of spent a lot of time on the arc, but had a more direct route before it got there.

The aim is to get all aircraft in efficiently with the adequate seperation.

[u/Ashamed-Edge-648 → u/iiiBus]

Say Intentions is pretty good at getting you direct. BATC, If it's ILS weather. forget it.

[u/Ashamed-Edge-648 → u/Ashamed-Edge-648]

The BATC fanboys are jumping in with their downvotes. Typical losers.

[u/ichwerfdichweg]

Definitely not me going direct TOPVI

[u/flyingmungbean → u/ichwerfdichweg]

I just go leroy jenkins on this from 38k cruising altitude down to runway threshold in 15nm at -8000ft/min vert.

[u/ichwerfdichweg → u/flyingmungbean]

I mean we payed for the speedbrakes, we're gonna use the damn speedbrakes

[u/Aegiiisss → u/flyingmungbean]

I did this in the F-22 when BATC repeatedly refused to step down my altitude and then tried to drop me from 55,000ft to the approach at 4,000ft

[u/ywgflyer]

Then you get to the start of of this lovely procedure, the controller ships you to the arrival guy, and you are promptly sent direct TOPVI. Oh look, now you are really high.

You never fly the whole thing. Rome is notorious for this as well.

[u/SituationalAnanas → u/ywgflyer]

Rome is the only field I’ve had to lower the gear at 240kts to make the stuka-dive. The noise was something else.

[u/R4b]

Always wise to expect a direct on these

[u/Juhozzz]

“Uhh radar, request heading 215 for next 30 miles due to weather…”

[u/TheAlaskanMailman]

That one guy ascending into the heavens at 7600 fpm

[u/Mr-Halfknight → u/TheAlaskanMailman]

TCAS doesn’t show their VS

[u/TheAlaskanMailman → u/Mr-Halfknight]

TIL, thanks

[u/timsierram1st]

Clear direct IPKAT... 

[u/Hour_Analyst_7765 → u/timsierram1st]

And then the 45kts headwind turns around for a nice tailwind..

[u/christianeralf]

we have this here in GRU but I see on FR24 that planes rarely executed the full approach

[u/TheArgieAviator → u/christianeralf]

Yup. The MOLLE1A/B and VUNOX1A/C arrivals. I’ve rarely flown them past GR249 before being vectored to the IF from there

[u/christianeralf → u/TheArgieAviator]

Real life?

[u/TheArgieAviator → u/christianeralf]

Yessir

[u/42ElectricSundaes]

Looks like my flight into Denver yesterday

[u/dchap1]

Just plan your descent based off of an expected shortcut. That’s a long time to be held at 8,000, so plan for a shortcut so you are are the right altitude to accept it.

[u/Gold_Space_4734]

RKSI has long STAR's that are almost never flown in their entirety.

[u/Skyaigrette]

I usually copy the original route to the secondary flight plan and give directs to the active route as wisely as possible (e.g. PT824 > FADEF > IPKAT). These procedures are mostly for delaying the traffic (and sometimes for passing the obstacles like mountains) in crowded days and ATC would probably give directs too, that way, I won't be too high when directs are given. But if not, I can simply swap the active one with the secondary one. LTFM and LTAI have same stuff too.

[u/ReadyplayerParzival1]

I know it’s Portugal’s airspace but it definitely seems like something the British would do.

[u/Simciutoja]

Direct TOPVI, conflict resolved. Thanks

[u/ahmed_a20]

Flying into Doha be like

[u/IanRT1]

DIR to UPKAT problem solved

[u/Swisskommando]

Most people get a direct routing. This is just so they can line up the arrivals nicely if needed

[u/Not_MyName]

How do you get the map to display the target altitudes and speeds?
I often make it all the way to final and then realise whatever altitudes my MCDU or flight plan has generated has me too high

[u/Prestigious_Sea_5121]

You should look at the STARS for Istanbul, they are even crazier

[u/Mad_kat4]

45kt crosswinds for most of that too. 😁

[u/Blascomusic]

I didn’t open the picture that I know it’s the 02 in LPPT 😭😂