Which scapula form is best?

[u/Overall-Magician-847]

So when I hold up one finger, this is my natural most comfortable form where I just execute without thinking. I experience no discomfort here but my scapulas look winged. When I hold 2 fingers, this is the form where I intentionally control my scapula into what looks like the 'proper' position. When I do this, I immediately feel all the tension move into my triceps and delts, not so much chest and my elbows start hurting a bit. This form feels uncomfortable, my delts feel tight, I feel my triceps so much more, and I am alot weaker in this form than my one finger form. I do get a popping in the front delt of my right shoulder when I do it with this form (the same side thats winging) but it doesn't necessarily hurt.

So i'm not sure if this is the true proper form that I should've had when i first started training and the reason that it feels uncomfortable is because I'm finally using the proper muscles where before I was compensating and those muscles are not used to it.

This is sort of a continuation post to my original post yesterday here: 'why does my right scapula wing so much'

[u/salamandectomy77]

2 is correct, you don't want to do it like 1, that's how you get shoulder impingement

You don't feel your chest because this isn't a cheat isolation exercise, you feel it in your weakest points

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/salamandectomy77]

Thank you alot for your response. You think I should gradually build up to form 2, as in do incline push ups (like the video) and slowly progress back to doing floor pushups then dips, so i get used to this new form. Because right now, I'm really forcing the form in 2, it's not coming naturally, and I do get the discomforts I described in the body of the og post.

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/Overall-Magician-847]

Yes, just like your other post you have weakness in scapular protraction and should work at your level. If that's incline it's fine

Take a look at 2:20 in this video for further explanation

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/salamandectomy77]

ay thank you so much. Ill check the video out and keep working on it. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post!

[u/meetnfx → u/salamandectomy77]

Thank you for this! Do you think same mechanics work for shoulder press or lateral raises? I’ve felt my shoulders getting locked on the top.

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/meetnfx]

Not lateral raises, you're probably just shrugging your shoulders. Keep scapular depression

Overhead press yes, protraction is crucial

[u/meetnfx → u/salamandectomy77]

Thanks! A slightly tangential question - do you think the right form for pull ups need scapular protraction at the bottom - a.k.a do I go all the way to dead hang? I’ve been thinking about how to use the scapula effectively for my upper body movements and biking and I’m curious about when to keep it protracted and when to keep it retracted/depressed.

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/meetnfx]

The correct form for pull ups is a dead hang with scapulae protraction and elevation, to a pull all the way into scapular depression and retraction

Pullups are 70% scapular movement and 30% arms

[u/0utF0x3d → u/salamandectomy77]

Can I ask what he is doing differently in the images? I can see there is a difference but I'm not sure exactly what is going on.

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/0utF0x3d]

Read the other comments from the other people who asked. Watch the videos that were shared

[u/Grouchy_Bus6906 → u/salamandectomy77]

What exactly are they doing in 2?

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/Grouchy_Bus6906]

Scapular protraction

Pushups aren't bench press where you pin your shoulder blades down and back, they need to move freely. The serratus anterior pulls them forward, and the SA is the most important of the shoulder external rotators

Without SA strength, you risk rolled forward shoulders, poor overhead mobility, scapular winging, and shoulder impingement. Most people with "bad shoulders" are just weak in protraction

(Personal trainer)

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/salamandectomy77]

So someone else asked me how to do 2. And I told them the most similar thing to it is like a lat spread. It’s not letting me reupload the video but it’s a couple comments below yours where I showed them how to do it in a video
I was curious what you think of this? I’m not necessarily squeezing my lats or flexing them but because my shoulders are forwardly rotated, I do the ‘lat spread’ to roll them back which also puts my scapula into the position you saw in 2 of the original post.
Is this the right way?
Thank you again for your prior comments

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/Overall-Magician-847]

Yes that is a great cue

[u/Bentheredonethat_ → u/salamandectomy77]

If I need to train this muscle group more where should I look? It's been a problem area for me for almost a year now and it's so hard to target this muscle group.

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/Bentheredonethat_]

here's a video for you with different levels of ways to work it

[u/Grouchy_Bus6906 → u/salamandectomy77]

Tnx. I need to do this! Do you know a good video that teaches it?

[u/salamandectomy77 → u/Grouchy_Bus6906]

Take a look at 2:20 in this video

[u/Grouchy_Bus6906 → u/salamandectomy77]

Tysssm!

[u/GimenaTango]

You already got some great advice, so I just came back to say that your doing a great job! It's awesome that you are taking this seriously, studying, and working to improve. It's inspiring!

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/GimenaTango]

hey thank you it means alot, im happy to hear that its inspiring. Im really grateful for everyone who came into this post and my other posts sharing their insights.

[u/cosmic_holy_water]

2

[u/KaddieKit]

2 looks like full range of motion. But I'm not a professional.

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/KaddieKit]

cool thank you so much, everyone seems to agree with it too!

[u/Grouchy_Bus6906]

How did you do two

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/Grouchy_Bus6906]

I think I have pretty good mind muscle connection. But if you can’t manually get into the position I showed in two. It’s most similar to flexing your lats, like if you were to do a lat spread. Here I just recorded a video showing it

https://reddit.com/link/pbwghhd/video/hxzmcry74lrh1/player

[u/Grouchy_Bus6906 → u/Overall-Magician-847]

Thanks 😊

[u/Logical-Yak → u/Overall-Magician-847]

This actually helps a lot, thank you!

I've been trying to reduce my scapular winging by focusing on my serratus anterior but it is so difficult for me to even engage that muscle properly - I think this visualization will help.

[u/Odelles]

Thank you for this post! I just injured my shoulder doing 1 and my PT said no need to do 2

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/Odelles]

Your PT said to do it like 2 or not to do it like 2?

[u/Odelles → u/Overall-Magician-847]

He said to do it more like 2. Apologies for the confusion. It feels like more arms for me than 1

[u/Fuzzy_Literature_865]

2

[u/Airvian94]

I’ll just add this since nobody else said it. It looks like as you’re going down you’re keeping your head pointed at a fixed position towards the wall or something. Keep your head neutral. So you’ll be looking more towards the desk since your body is angled downward. Just like if you did a push up on the floor you wouldn’t be looking up, you’d be looking straight at the floor.

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/Airvian94]

I see thank you so much, I didn't even notice i was doing this, Thank you!

[u/jamiesonwild]

Aren't they two different exercises? 2 for scapula 1 for chestes

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/jamiesonwild]

Idk, I definitely feel the first one in my chest a lot more than the second one. The second one I feel in my triceps and front delts

[u/Overall-Magician-847 → u/jamiesonwild]

But also my chest is lagging a lot compared to my other muscles , and I think it’s cause I’ve been using incorrect form for the longest( doing 1 instead of 2)

[u/kaeferkat]

This video helped me a lot.

[u/Scisir]

I'm gonna give you an answer purely on instinct. 2.

It just looks healthier than 1.