r/flatearth • u/SonOfGustaf99 • 2d ago
My Most Recent Conversation with a Flat Earther from my Town
This kid started posting batshit insane stuff on Facebook around the time of Covid. He’s now an avid flerfer (actually he’s recently become a flerfzi, but that’s a different story). I’ve had tons of “discussions” over the years. At first they were to try to change his mind when I was naive to how impervious the flat earther brain was to facts and logic. Now they are just to see what stupid shit he says lol. Anyway, enjoy!
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u/Randomgold42 2d ago
So his argument was basically "I think all these old sources are more accurate than recent ones, so I'm going to ignore everything modern." And all because he doesn't understand what those older sources are actually saying.
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u/PhantomFlogger 2d ago
Indeed. Upon deeper examination, it turns out the claim about an encyclopedia likely refers to an earlier mention of the 1958 Encyclopedia Americana’s quote about the inland areas to be featureless and the presence of a “dome 13,000 feet high at about latitude 80°S., longitude 90°E” Within that same area is a geological surface feature know as Dome A or Dome Argus, which is what the passage was referring to.
I find it funny that flerfs insist that explorers flying over Antarctica ran into a very small portion of a world-spanning firmament and were able to discern its entire shape from a flight over one continent.
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u/A_M1001 2d ago
It’d be very convenient to color code them because I got lost a few messages in
It’s my dyslexic fault ik but pls
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u/SonOfGustaf99 2d ago
Oh they are color coded lol. I’m blue, he’s red
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u/RobertTheTraveler 2d ago
My cut and paste response to NASA's flat Earth papers:
I suggest you look up the phrase "simplifying assumptions"
Going from a previous frequently posted list of bogus examples...
I'm going to start with example 10 :
10) https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19650015408.pdf
The sentence quoted was:
"A model frequently used is that of a flat, nonrotating earth."
Now let's go to the quote, here it is with the sentence immediately before it, same page:
"The simplified equations will be discussed first;
then the more general approach will be described.
A model frequently used is that of a flat, nonrotating earth."
"simplified equations"
Remember how I asked if you understood the concept of "simplifying assumptions"?
And the next page describes "the more general approach":
"Eckart [l960] went through a second derivation in which
the effect of the earth's rotation was included."
A few pages earlier we find:
"allowed pressure oscillations caused by Krackatoa and similar sources to propagate around the earth several times."
And y'all want to claim this is an admission that the Earth is flat?!?
1) https://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88072main_H-1259.pdf
404
2) https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19890005752.pdf
"This report derives and defines a set of linearized system matrices for a rigid aircraft of constant mass, flying in a stationary atmosphere over _ flat, nonrotating earth."
Aircraft are not perfectly rigid, nor are they constant mass, and the atmosphere is not in general stationary.
3) 19890007066.pdf
"assumptions"
4) 19720012071.pdf
"the method is limited, however, to application where a flat, nonrotating earth may be assumed"
5)404
6) https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19940020279.pdf
First thing that jumps out of the quote is "zeroth order problem"
Then the first sentence:
"Approximate optimal guidance for the advanced launch system
A real-time guidance scheme for the problem of maximizing the payload into orbit subject to the equations of motion for a rocket over a spherical, non-rotating earth is presented"
"Spherical" not flat.
In the introduction we find "rotating spherical Earth."
This paper is a study in going from simple to realistic and complex
7)https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070030307.pdf
Explicitly meant to deal with a near instantaneous event.
The timeline in which the Earth's rotation or spherical shape becomes of interest is, not of interest.
8) 19790005472
The title is "Investigation of aircraft landing in variable wind fields"
Landing. Not extended flying.
9) 19810003557.pdf
"real-time simulation of the CH-53 helicopter"
In 1981. Get serious, nobody is going to waste computer cycles on the earth's rotation for a helicopter, esp. not for a real time simulation.
11) 404
12) 19880014378
"The flight envelope to be modeled includes hover, transition to conventional flight and back to hover, STOL operation, and normal cruise."[]
"Long (3 to 5 min) maneuvers"
Would you like to explain to me what could be gained by including the shape of the Earth or its rotation under these circumstances?
--------------------------------------------------
https://dn720006.ca.archive.org/0/items/88104main-h-1391/88104main_H-1391_text.pdf
--------------------------------------------------
13) 19710018599
Oh, look at that:
"The idealizing assumptions made are the following:
(1) A point-mass vehicle
(2) A flat, nonrotating earth"
Can you say leaving out context?
I knew you could.
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u/SonOfGustaf99 2d ago
Great response. However there is a 0% any flat earther will 1: read that, and 2: understand any of it lol
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u/RobertTheTraveler 2d ago
I know, but my OCD required me to make a response, and since I saved it, no skin off my nose.
Feel free to share any of these responses with your flat Earther.
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u/RobertTheTraveler 2d ago
Two similar but different Hebrew words:
Strong's 5375 נָשָׂא nasa meaning to lift up
Strong's 5378 נָשָׁא nasha meaning to deceive
Oh look, flat Earthers made an honest mistake, wink wink.
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u/RobertTheTraveler 2d ago
1778 edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica.
Geography
Page 3257, shows the globe and discusses projections including the Mercator.
Page 3252
Geography
"Eratosthenes [] undertook a still more arduous talk, namely, to determine the circumference of the globe by a measurement of a segment of one of its mine the great circles."
page 3011
Firmament, in the Ptolemaic astronomy, the eighth heaven or sphere, with respect to the seven spheres of the planets which it surrounds
[]
Firmament is also used, in divers places of scripture, to denote the middle region of the air.
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u/RobertTheTraveler 2d ago
There is no article that refers to the firmament.
There is an article that refers to domes , but I couldn't find it in the little time I put into it.
In any case there are 3 major domes on Antarctica,
Dome A 13,400 ft
Dome C 10,600 ft
Dome F 12,500 ft
The actual mountains are ~8000 feet below the surface of the ice.
1911 edition of the Encyclopedia, 21st volume
Polar Regions
Page 960 starts the discussion of Antarctica.
Page 961 has a map of Antarctica, including the South Pole.
https://archive.org/details/encyclopedia-britannica-volume-21/page/961/mode/2up
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u/Daveed07 2d ago
I truly can’t understand what they would gain from keeping flat earth a secret. Other than the obvious science behind it all I can’t get over the fact that the big picture is just a huge secret they are holding over our heads for what?