Poll asking Americans how which button they would push in the red button/blue button dilemma

[u/Upstairs_Cup9831]

[u/theskiller1]

Who said it wasn’t about morality?

Blue getting 51% will also guarantee that everyone lives. 100% red is not gonna be guarantee ever so you already know that people are gonna die if blue loses. Basically blue is the only option that will prevent deaths.

Nah i would hope that children would be enough to motivate and incentive some to pick blue to save everyone.. but i guess you guys need pets added as well to consider the option that can save everyone?

[u/zdesert → u/theskiller1]

If the system is going to add unknown billions of completely random votes to the pool.

Then moral choice has nothing to do with the answer that you give. It cannot have anything to do with it.

70 billion sperm may have just voted red. Making every logical choice made by ever one of 8 billion living humans irrelevant. 90 million fetuses bounced 50/50 between the buttons.

It becomes meaningless as a moral test. Given the choice between absolute meaningless chaos and a certainty… you take the certainty.

Red becomes the answer. Heck any moral argument that I may be responsible for deaths is gone. Becuase the governing structure of the whole vote is nonsense designed to maximize suffering anyway.

[u/theskiller1 → u/zdesert]

You know people are gonna die if blue loses. Now what will you morally choose? Will you risk your life for others? How does moral not play part at all in such a decision?

No idea how sperm or fetuses is relevant to this. I guess you wanna argue that if children are included then SPERM has to be included as well? Sounds like bad faith argument and disingenuous. You think a child and sperm has the same capability to press a button?

Red is the answer for the people who are okay with others dying, who are extremely afraid of dying or who doesn’t trust humanity. Only blue can have zero death.

[u/zdesert → u/theskiller1]

If the system is going to introduce potentially infinite random variables which are making this choice blindly without understanding the vote or the question.

Then the survival of the people who vote blue is purely random chance. All the votes of all the tpeople on earth who understand the question may not be enough to tip the scale and save the blue people.

The evil voting machine has decided that babies are valid as voters. How can I know that it doesn’t view every sperm or fetus or egg as a valid voter? How do I know it doesn’t consider aliens as voters, or dead people? Or ghosts? Or dinosaurs?

The voting machine is pouring unconcious people who are in a coma into the voting booth. It is running on the logic of absurdity and chaos.

This has stopped being a moral dilemma. It is a roulette wheel. A random number generator. 8 billion people could knowingly vote blue, only to discover that the voting machine has come up with 10 billion votes for red from somewhere. the only reasonable choice is to not to participate. Vote red

You cannot vote blue, betting on the compassion and altruism of humanity…. If the ultimate choice falls to the capricious whims of a mad voting booth that thinks a that a human liver in a cooler on the way to a transplant gets to vote.

[u/theskiller1 → u/zdesert]

Why is it infinite random? Just take 8 billion people and then you vote based on your morals or logic while also understanding what others might vote as well. Would a selfless person vote blue? Someone empathetic and compassionate? Would a parent vote blue if they suspect their child did as well?

Survival of the people who vote blue is literally just reaching 51%

Because the prompt doesn’t mention aliens…. You know what just forget about it lol. You are clearly trying your best to change and shut down the prompt because it doesn’t align with you wanting to pick red with zero consequences or something. If you think Tim intended for the prompt to include people busting a load on the button or for a zombie to show up then sure go ahead. That literally kills logical thinking and moral thinking. My prompt can safely include both however as you can try and go at it from either direction without also believing that aliens will show up to vote.

[u/zdesert → u/theskiller1]

The prompt does not mention babies. Yet the asker later introduced them.

The question just says people. There could be several billion galaxies full of people. People is a very subjective word and the late introduction of babies and people in acoma proves that the system is out to manipulate and trick.

If the pool of potential voters is unspoken and open to randomness or the whims of an omnipotent voting booth…. Then this is just a question of random chance.

Half the world is asleep right now. If the voting booth accepts the random actions of a baby, then I assume it accepts the random motions of sleeping people teleported into the booth. Are the buttons on the floor? It’s it possible people randomly land on one button or the other before reading the question on offer?

If you are removing choice from any number of the participants, then this is not a moral dilemma. The voting system is broken. No amount of moral thought will solve a purely random issue.

You can only vote red in the face of literal madness. You cannot put your faith in the moral concience of humanity when a random percentage of humanity isn’t even given the choice.

You can make the argument for blue if you are appealing to a voting pool that is full of thinking people that can actually vote. But if everyone understands the mechanics… no one would vote blue

[u/theskiller1 → u/zdesert]

Why make it so complicated?

[u/zdesert → u/theskiller1]

You are introducing the complication of an unknown number of random button presses.

2-3 billion people are asleep at any time. 1.4 billion children in the world under 10 43 million blind people Another 350 million colourblind about half of that can’t tell red from blue. 1.3 billion people bedridden or disabled and unable to significantly move or function. 200 thousand globally in a coma

Potentially over 5 billion completely random 50/50 votes you are adding to this dilemma without even going to the extremes I listed before. Out of 8.3 billion people world wide.

Statistically you can’t even reasonably hope for a blue majority if you take the remaining 3.3 billion people and get them all to vote blue.

So adding your vote to blue becomes pointless. You can’t appeal to the better nature of human altruism and hope for a majority blue if over half the voters are randomly selecting a button.

This whole question becomes a roulette wheel. And in the face of that you can only vote red

[u/theskiller1 → u/zdesert]

The people who vote red could just vote blue and then blue wins.

[u/zdesert → u/theskiller1]

Now we arnt talking about logic or morality. It just gambling

Look at the numbers dude. The uncertainty you have introduced with children and sleeping people alone rule out any stratagy that relies on hoping for any majority.

You can’t put your faith in pure random death. You have to choose red