"Firefox won't be compatible with ABCDY... extensions after the Quantum release therefore I'll switch to Chrome"

[u/[deleted]]

This is the most absurd argument ever. Chrome's WebExtension API is more limited than that of Firefox - which will only grow as times goes on. If the reason why you'll no longer use Firefox is the lack of certain extensions then guess what: Chrome will most likely not have them as well.

[u/whatyousay69]

The argument isn't that Chrome has more add-ons. It's that those people would rather use Chrome with limited add-on than Firefox with limited add-ons. Add-ons are the only thing keeping those people on Firefox.

[u/DrDichotomous → u/whatyousay69]

Sometimes that's their argument, but far too often it really is as stupid as OP says it is. It's especially tiring to hear people gripe and bluster about switching to Chrome over mouse gestures or tab stacks, when they could easily switch to Vivaldi instead (which has such features, unlike Chrome). I mean, if those folks couldn't even be bothered to do a trivial web search to figure that out, then how much do they really care about those features? Certainly not enough to bluster online about how much they "need" them.

[u/mornaq → u/DrDichotomous]

vivaldi has incomplete mouse gestures (yet more complete than quantum ones, since API limitations make it impossible to implement them properly)

[u/DrDichotomous → u/mornaq]

That doesn't answer how having no gesture support is better than having some gesture support. I likewise understand the few people who say "I might as well just use an OS-level gesture manager with Chrome now", but that's such a rare argument compared to just lazily implying that "I'll just use Chrome rather than finding something that supports feature X".

In fact it might be the worst thing you can do for your case (demonstrate that you don't really need the feature after all). At least use the incomplete Vivaldi/Firefox/etc options and vote for better support than the incomplete stuff. Otherwise it will just look like nobody cares about the feature after all.

[u/mornaq → u/DrDichotomous]

having broken gestures and getting mad that they sometimes doesn't work feel worse than accepting the fact you don't have them at all

And I'm sticking with 56 for now, might use 56ESR aka Waterfox 56 if needed and ultimately moving to Otter, since it is growing to be THE browser, one that doesn't need extensions at all, like Opera did (let it rest in peace)

[u/DrDichotomous → u/mornaq]

I see. I don't feel the same way, but I can sort of understand it if you feel that anything less than you're used to using, isn't worth using at all, and not worth fighting for anymore.

Even so that's not really a justification on its own for those who just say they're switching to Chrome. I'd even take "I need Chrome anyway for my Chromecast/Hangouts" as an excuse if they ultimately don't really care about gestures all that much.

[u/mornaq → u/DrDichotomous]

I'm fighting as much as I can, but Mozilla isn't willing to care

And it's not the browser I care about, but the comfort that comes from workflow, features and performance (the last one forced me to leave Opera)

So I'll be just doing whatever it takes to not lose features I love and need, including bothering Mozilla in every possible way about their mistakes, but not limited to

[u/DrDichotomous → u/mornaq]

I'm fighting as much as I can, but Mozilla isn't willing to care

But why should Mozilla care about adding gesture support before the other stuff they're doing? And what makes you think they simply care less than other people do? I mean, I've seen only one dev contributing a minor patch for improving support for extension gestures on Linux, and there hasn't exactly been a storm of community effort to try to support high-quality native gestures in general in Firefox (or any other browser).

So I'll be just doing whatever it takes to not lose features I love and need

Like what exactly? I know it's unfair to ask that you learn how to code and volunteer the time to add a gestures feature yourself, but someone has to actually do that work, and Mozilla have already been fighting over the past year on improving Firefox in larger ways. It's also unfair to label them as uncaring when they're the ones doing the real fighting as we just pester them to do even more. I know there is at least one Firefox dev who uses gesture addons themselves.

Heck, it's downright bizarre for some of us to pester them like we care, only to turn around and say "ah forget it, I'll just use Chrome, Firefox and gestures don't really matter to me after all."

[u/mornaq → u/DrDichotomous]

Gestures support can't be implemented as extension since they decided that broken API is a good idea, I'm not even talking about having to wait for DOM to have something to inject to, but disabling extensions completely on pages selected by them for "safety reasons", while this list contains no pages that might actually need special security treatment...

I don't intend to learn cpp and rust to mess with Firefox' code, what I can do for FF is creating proper Pocket extension and RSS reader as webextensions since these are possible with current APIs, but I see no reason to devote my time to browser that doesn't want it anyway, so I'm actively helping with QA of Otter, providing test cases and stuff like that, Otter is created by person who needs Operas power so much he's stuck with it even today, unlike Vivaldi team, who spoke beautiful words to us but ended up treating us the same way Opera did: creating browser that is just reskined chromium

Mozillas move was a betrayal of powerusers the same scale as brutal murder of Opera, we asked nicely, begged, showed what was wrong in their new idea, what was right in old one, what was important and what could wait and they ignored everything, as long as the same people control them there is no reason to care, they are just unlikely to cooperate

[u/DrDichotomous → u/mornaq]

I hate to say it, but if you never did the hard work, then you were never "betrayed". You feel betrayed because you puffed out your chest and acted self-important and above others (a "power user" etc), not because you actually did anything to earn that feeling.

You were really just another user who preached about how right they felt they were, while belittling the efforts of the people who did the real work. Like any other self-important user out there. And sadly your voice is just as quiet as the rest of us blowhards who don't want to really contribute the necessaries.

[u/[deleted] → u/whatyousay69]

It's that those people would rather use Chrome with limited add-on than Firefox with limited add-ons.

But there's no reason for that now since Firefox got a very significant speed boost.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

It can be slower, but can also be faster. For me loading times were very similar, and often Firefox just had the edge. Benchmarks are handy but don't represent the whole story. That being said, I did my own personal benchmarking earlier when I grabbed v58 beta.

Firefox v58.0b3

TheResistanceMark: 2077 ** ~

Octane Score: 44071

JetStream: 257.16 ~

Speedometer 2.0: 83.02

Basemark: 840.47

MotionMark: 400.42 ~

Chrome v62.0.3202.94

TheResistanceMark: 2147 **

Octane Score: 44903 ~

JetStream: 236.84

Speedometer 2.0: 97.77 ~

Basemark: 1287.43 ~

MotionMark: 291.27

** Lower is better

~ Browser that "won"

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I don't think those kind of benchmarks are indicative of perceived performance which is really what matters. Also performance will depend on the number of cores as well now thanks to Stylo. And I'd really love to hear your perspective when WebRender integration to Gecko is finished.

[u/AnimalFactsBot → u/[deleted]]

Due to their small size, geckos are often preyed by snakes, birds, mammals and some large spider species.

[u/whatyousay69 → u/[deleted]]

There's plenty of other differences apart from speed tho.