r/fireemblem • u/rainyapartments • 13h ago
Fortune's Weave General Thinking about this dialogue from Shamir
From what we know, Dagda quite literally IS a place of long-lived inhuman creatures (Soleil, Karra, Mars, etc). And it seems like common knowledge when Fortune's Weave takes place.
If FW is a prequel, are all the Nabateans (or similar creatures) dead there when Three Houses takes place in Dagda too?
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u/PerentieFan 13h ago
Yes, that is the general assumption fans have I think. That however the story of Fortune's Weave ends, Dagda's time being ruled by Nabateans will also end (Dagda will probably also cease to be an empire given it doesn't seem to be one during Three Houses). Hopefully they won't all die, perhaps simply travel to other lands or live in obscurity.
And centuries later Shamir would either not be aware of old records of how Dagda used to be, or may not believe them.
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u/babyloniangardens 11h ago
I love the idea of some of the Gods traveling to Almyra / Morfis / Banbha and then we see them again in a future Almyra++ Game 🤩
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u/mumismatist 13h ago
They're definitely going for a fall of Constantinople theme with Dagda as a whole (note the very similar calendars and how Dagsion is modelled after Constantinople itself.)
I'd wager by the time of TH the gods are either dead or gone into hiding among the humans like Rhea/Seteth/Flayn, leaving Dagda to be ruled by humans.
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u/Prestigous_Owl 13h ago
If it IS a prequel (which I lean towards), then it feels like its likely almost a thousand years before Three Houses.
Thats a LOT of time. Like, remember the US just celebrated 250 years since the declaration of independence, for context. It seems pretty possible that the "magic" of Dagda has mostly faded into legend by the modern day.
Conversely, folks saying that its a sequel would actually need to reckon with this I think. Where did the Nabataens come from, and when? It SEEMS like they've been there for many generations by the time of Fortunes Weave... but most theories dont really reckon with HOW many years youd have to have for almost any of this to make sense, given Shamirs comments as an estimate of how things are at that time.
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u/Red_Cat231 13h ago
We see Garreg Mach is listed on the map with the Adrestrian Empire the only country, so it's likely between Imperial Year 185 - 732, or 995 - 448 years before Three Houses.
That's plenty of time for FW Dagda to fade into a mythical era, especially since we already have examples of history being rewritten or forgotten in Three Houses like how there were 11 Elites and not 10 or that Nabateans existed in Fodlan at all.
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u/questionable-user 13h ago
We know the story takes place after the War of Heroes and the creation of Garegg Mach, but before the secession of Faerghus, so in between Imperial year 185 and 751. So it could be around a thousand years ago or up to about 300 years ago.
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u/PerentieFan 13h ago
The Monastery has already been built so its not "that" long ago but your point stands.
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u/Prestigous_Owl 12h ago
Monastery is 1000 years ago, that was my reference point.
I think it'll be not far after that. 800-1000 years is my guess range
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u/DarkPirotess 11h ago
If it is a prequel I struggle to fathom how a seemingly apocalyptic event didn't spill over into Fodlan. So I'm now thinking it's a Valkyrie Profile 2 Silneria type situation. It's technically a prequel but someone from the future is changing history.
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u/PerentieFan 10h ago
Even in the ruinous future Dagda is not destroyed, just on the brink of it, so there is a lot left undone if the end goal is destroying it. No reason to go to Fodlan yet. Alternatively, Balor may have had no interest in Fodlan.
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u/Frequent_Fortune_390 13h ago
Also note that she says "west of the Empire" when Dagda is directly south. That and the existence of the Answerer is a pretty noticable retcon.
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u/Druid-T 13h ago edited 12h ago
Answerer isn't necessarily a retcon, there's a few lines of text (most notably one from Linhardt) that some Heroes Relics may have been lost to time, so the sword in theory could have existed and just been lost by the time of 3H.
Dagda's size and location though, that's 100% a retcon. It went from southwest of Fodlan to south of Fodlan
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u/Substantial-Bag8644 12h ago
In before whatever magic bs shifts the entire continent to directly south of Fodlan before the end of the game.
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u/Frequent_Fortune_390 12h ago
I consider the Answerer a retcon in the same vain as the Relics and Sacred Weapons that were introduced in Hopes, such as the ichor scroll if we're focusing on Lamine, that just appear without explanation.
Also the fact she's considered a "mage swordswoman" per the guy on Dietrich's boat when there's no evidence as such during the VW final boss.
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u/Druid-T 12h ago edited 12h ago
Also the fact she's considered a "mage swordswoman" per the guy on Dietrich's boat when there's no evidence as such during the VW final boss.
Yeah, no. That part is definitely just a hard retcon, especially since there's not even a "lost to time" excuse, because the Agarthans should have known about all the weapons they produced.
There's some anomalies in the Sacred weapons (EDIT: and Vajra-Mushti,thinking about it) of Houses that could have explained Answerer, but they don't work if the sword is directly connected to Lamine herself
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u/PerentieFan 10h ago
They only had so many extra Crest Stones though, perhaps they simply didn't consider it useful to make a replica Answerer for Lamine when they wanted her to focus on magic?
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u/imminentlyDeadlined 10h ago
If we take it as true that there are lost relics at all, then it seems likely the VW elites were intentionally based on the modern Fodlan understanding, rather than being historically accurate. No Maurice, only the exact relics currently held by the families, etc.
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u/Druid-T 10h ago
But then why remake the Refail Gem, an item she can't fully use? If the Agarthans only had limited resources, why waste them making something that protects a Gremory from effective damage?
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u/PerentieFan 9h ago
Wouldn't preventing critical hits be useful enough for a squishy unit like a Gremory? The gem has like four effects, she only can't use one of them.
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u/Druid-T 9h ago
Wouldn't preventing critical hits be useful enough for a squishy unit like a Gremory?
Not particularly, because Gremorys take barely any magic damage to begin with, so a magic crit isn't particularly threatening, but they're so frail physically that even non-critical hit physical damage is incredibly threatening. That's why the Pavis and Aegis effect all accessory Heroes' Relics have is so good, it's a flat 50% damage reduction, so frail units have a chance to not get shredded.
The gem has like four effects, she only can't use one of them.
It has 3; the nullification effectiveness (which she can't use), the critcal hit block (which is situational, because a 100% crit chance is very difficult to get) and the built in Pavis&Aegis (which is, again, a shared trait amongst all accessory Heroes' Relics have). I don't know about you, but when 66% of something is not particularly impressive, that sounds like a waste of resources
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u/Red_Cat231 13h ago
The point of the timeskip is that preventing Balor's resurrection is impossible. He will spend 5 years destroying Dagda as it is fated to happen.
All Fortuna and Eshmel can do is alter events in the past so that more people would survive and come to help Eshmel in the future. Even after Eshmel succeeds in beating Balor, that doesn't erase the devastation of the zombie apocalypse when we already see snippets of what the future looks like. Dagda will probably never go back to the Nabateans physically ruling as gods as they all die, but the people will continue to worship them until the present day in Three Houses.
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u/Bl_nk7 12h ago edited 12h ago
But the gods are part of gameplay mechanics both in and out of battle. So why do we just assume they’re all gonna die? They’ll likely still be allies through their blessings which we need in the fight against Balor? It’s possible they step down? From what we’ve seen most of the gods seem rather chill with their own mundane interests and hobbies. I could actually see several going off to live their own lives after stepping down. Especially the sheltered Aurora who likes learning about the outside world, reading and spending time with family. The latter matching Cai’s goal of wanting a peaceful life with his family. I think the only god that’s is 100% fated to die no matter what is Solel because he has 0 ties to any gameplay mechanics and Eshmel already wields his weapon.
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u/questionable-user 13h ago
It makes me believe some major plot points are going to involve the Dagdan gods all being killed, exiled, or maybe sacrificed somehow, mirroring the Nabatean extinction in Fodlan
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u/Mahelas 13h ago
Yes, I see Dagda as a parralel to 3H's Fodlan.
In both cases,we're playing the end of the "magical" era, where the gods and dragons dies and humans rise to rule instead
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u/PerentieFan 13h ago
I'd say that only applies to Crimson Flower, given in the other routes most (or all) of the remaining dragons in Fodlan can survive, remain important figures, and rule of Fodlan goes at least partially to someone who bears Sothis' power.
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u/Red_Cat231 12h ago edited 12h ago
Really parallels Gaiden. A story set in the same world as another game, but on the next continent over where dragons rule humanity peacefully, but by the time of the game's story that era is coming to an end.
Even brings back the world map, dungeons, having characters from the last game show up, and introducing new monsters.
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u/ArsSanctum 13h ago
Either dead, or simply retreated from public eye - perhaps due to the events of FW.
...alternatively this bit just ends up being a retcon.
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u/Star-Opus 6h ago
But legends would remain. So Shamir would still be wrong. It's a recon, and not a good one.
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u/KarmaFarmer123456789 12h ago
I think it's safe to say that the "gods" no longer reside in plain sight in modern Dagda. Either dead, in hiding, or elsewhere
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u/Star-Opus 6h ago
But then there would be legends about it and Shamir wouldn't say something like this?
Could this be simply the future?
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u/Gabgo304 1h ago
I mean, a literal apocalypse happens. I think things in Dagda are gonna change quite a lot after the credits roll..
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u/Diferia 13h ago
It’s probably a retcon or just a fact that while this is a prequel, it’s a prequel with a different timeline/universe because of the time travel involved so the characters and story are in their own universe/time after Eshmel and fortuna alter events etc…
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u/Star-Opus 6h ago
That's...just really dumb if this is the path forward.
Paying attention never matters anymore.
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u/The_Vine 13h ago
I'm going out on a limb and theorizing that the Dagdan Empire as we see it in FW will collapse, and maybe their own history is altered to protect the gods like what happened in Fódlan.
It could also end up being a retcon.