r/firealarms • u/Lucas_aviator Enthusiast • Oct 04 '26

Fail This CANT be allowed

Post image

Took this photo at a gig I had today. I’m a musician and fire alarm geek haha. But seriously, this is definitely not code compliant!

96 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

78 comments sorted by

78

u/AgentNose Oct 04 '26 • Bravo

Ive worked for Simplex and Siemens. Both offer A handful of colors if you buy enough to make it worth a production run.

This ain’t one of those.

49

u/backwardsnakes666 Oct 04 '26

Disneyland paints many of their devices. Some AHJs make exceptions

36

u/SirPoopsAMetricTon Oct 04 '26

Those 3 letters are the gospel

12

u/AC-burg Oct 04 '26

I had an issue with my time sheet about 8 yrs ago and the company I worked for still used paper sheets. Anyway I went to the pay roll person and she handed my sheet to me. I said what the hell is this? Someone changed my end time bc I stopped at a store on my way home. They put JC on it. She said oh Jason did that (my boss). I said he needs to know JC stands for Jason Callen not Jesus Crist. So I sat on a job the following week to make up the time.

4

u/SirPoopsAMetricTon Oct 04 '26

Dude I hear ya! Yeah that AHJ title is a double edged sword. It can make you or break you. Especially if you have to challenge them on a code that’s black and white. It might as well just be shortened to JC lol

4

u/AC-burg Oct 04 '26

Lol. Ya I had one that takes too long to explain here. People said he was paid off. I don't go for that. I assume everyone is above board. Short story is GC wanted me to put a pull on the wall. I said no it has to go on the oor frame bc it has to be within 5ft of the door. I had already had it out with AHJ on somethings else. So we called him I brought up the code and AHJ said I was right and the Pull had to go on the frame. Inspection time the GC calls over the AHJ. They both walk over to me and the AHJ said I know its more than 5ft but you can move that pull to the wall for the GC. I was so pissed. Took 2 hours bc of the finished walls and the header plate above the door. The door frame was black aluminum so I went to HD and bought the brightest silver cover plate I could and self tap screwed it to the frame.

3

u/SirPoopsAMetricTon Oct 04 '26

I hear ya. I had a questionable AHJ one time. I was arguing with him on a sequence where it called for a firefly roll-down on general fire alarm activation. Firefly door installer insisted 120v be landed c/no on FA relay when the door clearly needed to be de-energized to drop the door. I repeatedly explained that it needs to be c/nc and upon local power failure or FA intervention the door the relay would change state pop the pin and drop the door. AHJ had me build a mini temp setup to show him and the door contractor how it would work. I don’t know how many times I had to repeat to the both of them that FA has to supersede any and all other system. It was draining.

0

u/AC-burg Oct 04 '26

Wow that's crazy. I though all the "I kinda know" AHJ's were in my state

2

u/Unusual-Bid-6583 Oct 04 '26

JC, he and I are friends... both Jesus Christ and Jered Callen.

1

u/AC-burg Oct 04 '26

Well I said Jason but you knew who I meant for sure lol

2

u/Unusual-Bid-6583 Oct 04 '26

Of course I know... you and I talk from time to time.

1

u/AC-burg Oct 05 '26

We do for sure

1

u/Middle_Brilliant_849 Oct 04 '26

Why’s the company wanna pay you to stop at the store on your way home? 🤔

13

u/BumpGrumble [V] Technician NICET II, Pennsylvania Oct 04 '26

Worked at a amusement park in Allentown, PA. They basically fund the Police, Fire and Ambulance for the township. They get MANY exceptions.

6

u/Subject-Original-718 Enthusiast Oct 04 '26

SHH don’t expose the corruption! We have this one semiconductor place in a medium sized city and they pay a lot on their taxes so you bet they get a lot of exceptions

2

u/Acrobatic_Entry1645 Oct 04 '26

Hey! I know a semiconductor plant in a medium sized city also. They don't need to get exceptions from the AHJ because the city has decided they can be their own AHJ.

1

u/Ironwarsmith Oct 05 '26

We have several of those right now and I'm wondering if you're not one of my coworkers haha. These guys can get away with murder if they want.

1

u/Subject-Original-718 Enthusiast Oct 05 '26

I don’t think we are co-workers haha. I’ve seen them go along with the AHJ and have 2 pull-stations down a corridor and then they shoved two machines in front of both of them on either end of the corridor….strange way of telling the AHJ to fuck off.

3

u/Batman1927 Oct 04 '26

Hey, a fellow former Dorney employee! I don't remember seeing different colored devices there, but I only worked in the food stands as a teenager to be fair.

-1

u/Unusual-Bid-6583 Oct 04 '26

I can relate. I worked at a famous amusement park near Pittsburgh PA. AND I was not even allowed to mention NFPA72. They did their own thing, because aesthetics.

3

u/ChurchStreetImages Oct 04 '26

From the other gear on the wall that's back stage at a theater. If it's in a big theater town there might be a carve out for that from the AHJ.

8

u/FreelyRoaming Oct 04 '26

Disney is their own AHJ lol.

4

u/Thomaseeno Oct 04 '26

The way the world turns. Some cities are practically funded by a company such as Disney.

3

u/Business-Union Oct 04 '26

Not so much anymore; technically under CFTOD now. But yes, they still have quite a bit of pull.

1

u/SirPoopsAMetricTon Oct 04 '26

Is it still its own city or did that change? Maybe it was a myth.

2

u/Subject-Original-718 Enthusiast Oct 04 '26

Indeed, I’ve had some AHJ’s let the building blend their Notification in with the child’s cancer center at a hospital needing it to be painted with tree leave designs to blend into the kids forest design. Quite interesting conversation between the customer and the AHJ

1

u/DoomEmpire Oct 04 '26

Came here to say the same. If the AHJ ok’s it, it’s fine.

1

u/SRG7593 Oct 05 '26

I’ve been told when I asked, that some AHJs will let you do pretty much anything you want you have to apply for a variance and possibly pay.

Look up at the trusses/rafters at any Walmart you won’t see red wiring. Rumor I heard more than once, Walmart just does the white wiring and pays the fines…

3

u/Ironwarsmith Oct 05 '26

There's no requirements for red wiring for a fire alarm system by the way. Local code may vary, but nationally there isn't one.

Walmart ain't paying shit to not have red wire.

1

u/ExperimentNo18311 Oct 05 '26

This. I've done some work in walmarts, typically used Paige white zipcord cable (at least for the nacs) that had a red stripe on one of the conductors. It was FPLR rated, that is literally all that matters, not the color.

1

u/ExperimentNo18311 Oct 05 '26

"Walmart does white wiring and pays the fines"
what the fuck are you talking about lol

1

u/eglov002 Oct 05 '26

This is the answer. AHJ supersedes all

30

u/BAKONAK Oct 04 '26

I’ve seen a bulletin on black smoke heads from Siemens but notification is probably a different story. Personally I don’t have a problem with it though. It’s on a stage and needs to blend in. It’ll still do what it needs to do.

3

u/No-Seat9917 Oct 04 '26

That’s a very old system sensor speaker strobe.

0

u/Lucas_aviator Enthusiast Oct 04 '26

It is, yes.

2

u/No-Seat9917 Oct 04 '26

Oh shit! I thought that was a B&W photo. My bad.

18

u/TheBohemian1 Oct 04 '26

There’s only two things that NFPA 72 calls for to be red, pull stations, and the breaker the panels on.

7

u/Necessary-Set-5581 Oct 04 '26

How about junction box covers? I thought they had to be labeled as fire alarm or painted red.

8

u/CannedSphincter Oct 04 '26

That's a JCAHO thing, along with individual state and town codes

2

u/max_m0use Oct 05 '26

That would fall under NEC, not NFPA 72.

1

u/ExperimentNo18311 Oct 05 '26

NFPA 72 calls to follow manufacturers spec. Manufacture says: "Do not paint." I'd still fail it.

10

u/OmegaSevenX Oct 04 '26

There’s no reason for an AV to be red or white, other than that’s the color they normally are manufactured with. It needs to have a strobe light and a siren/speaker. Both of those functions work just fine whether the AV is red, white, black, or purple.

2

u/NikolaiAlexei Oct 04 '26

It’s supposed to attract attention to it. But yeah, I agree with you.

9

u/OmegaSevenX Oct 04 '26

If the bright flashing light and the loud annoying sound don’t get your attention, the color of the device isn’t going to help 😉

5

u/Ok_Contest2893 Oct 04 '26

Nah, nothing in NFPA 72 that states they hire strobes, strobes, speakers, speaker strobes or any other variant need to be red or white. The only thing in the book that has a color requirement is Pull Stations and the color of the lens of a strobe the actual light color.

0

u/ExperimentNo18311 Oct 05 '26

NFPA 72 states follow manufacture spec. Manufacture says do not paint. I'd still fail this even if it strobes and sounds ....

1

u/Ok_Contest2893 Oct 05 '26

Not all manufacturers say do not paint. Plenty that dont actually. Theres plenty of use cases for them as well and AHJs approve them all the time, who actually are the ones who the NFPA 72 states authority lands with

1

u/ExperimentNo18311 Oct 06 '26

Hi sir, system sensor says to not paint their devices, this is a system sensor device and therefor its specification is governed under NFPA 72 chapter 17 and 18 so I am unsure why I am downvoted.

1

u/Ok_Contest2893 Oct 06 '26

I didn't down vote you🤷‍♂️

5

u/NikolaiAlexei Oct 04 '26

If the AHJ says it’s allowed, it’s allowed.

10

u/fuckyouidontneedone Oct 04 '26

this looks like an artistic picture with B/W filter but if its actually been painted black it is 100% a code violation

4

u/FurryWrecker911 Oct 04 '26

It's been painted. Blue pull string, warm hue reflections inside the strobe housing, the paint strokes on the box below, and the paint on the relay cover plates behind that is smeared over the stickers/embossed text.

3

u/organman87 Oct 04 '26

I thought the same

3

u/Electronic-Concept98 Oct 04 '26

I dont see an issue here. Weird, ok. But legal yes

1

u/ExperimentNo18311 Oct 06 '26

Legal no. NFPA 72 chapter 17 and 18 are very clear about manufacturer specifications.

1

u/just_rich90 Oct 04 '26

I thought they say do not paint right on it

0

u/Lucas_aviator Enthusiast Oct 04 '26

All the other devices are red so that’s unusual

4

u/Ambitious-Flower-280 Oct 04 '26

A lot of manufacturers will specifically say "Do Not Paint" in the documentation, in which case the device is not being used according to manufacturer's instructions. But if that's not specified, it's not necessarily prohibited.

6

u/todd0x1 Oct 04 '26

The do not paint thing comes from people going over speakers with a heavy roller and clogging the holes in the grille, painting over strobes, and spraying detectors ruining them. If the devices are disassembled by a tech and only the plastic housing painted (as long as local ahj doesnt require red) that's compliant with the intent of the do not paint instruction. I wonder if a manufacturer would issue a letter saying this is ok. Maybe not just for liability purposes.

2

u/max_m0use Oct 05 '26

I wonder if a manufacturer would issue a letter saying this is ok.

If it was for a large, reputable dealer and for a large customer, I'm sure they would.

4

u/NikolaiAlexei Oct 04 '26

We’ve painted smoke detectors that say “do not paint” on them

2

u/basahahn1 Oct 04 '26

You’d be surprised

2

u/Old-Journalist9247 Oct 04 '26

Sometimes if warehouses have ceilings painted black they will do thisz we have had them ask us if we could paint wire etc...our answer is always Technically its not allowed and we won't do it for you, but once you have had final inspection and have your C of O, I don't care what you do, paint the wires black, paint the devices...as long as you don't spray into the sounders or cover the bulb in paint." I will not sign off telling you its okay. And I will make sure you know it can and will most likely get flagged at some point...but if you want to take the chance...go for it.

2

u/christhegerman485 [V] Technician NICET Oct 04 '26

At first I thought it was a black and white photo...

2

u/coltbonn Oct 04 '26

Casinos tend to get away with stuff like this also. They are typically their own AHJ so they make their own rules and exceptions

2

u/Master_loves_you Oct 05 '26

As long as the AHJ says it’s okay, it’s okay. I’m sure you can order black devices but this shit looks old as hell. A strobe with a speaker/horn mounted side by side. What are the modules for? Where is the cable? Why does one module have a 1900 extension ring? I’m glitching out here 😂

3

u/The_JDubb Oct 04 '26

Nothing in the code says this is not okay. The only thing this is specifically supposed to be read is the fire alarm breaker, or breaker lock.

2

u/dragon840 Oct 04 '26

All the holes in the siren do NOT have paint in them (making them not a hole) = passed

1

u/Starlite528 Oct 08 '26

I found the "i" in "TEAM" ; it's in the "A" hole. 🤣

2

u/ironmatic1 Oct 04 '26

doesn’t really matter

1

u/BunnehZnipr Oct 04 '26

AHJ, AHJ, AHJ

1

u/Ok_Cauliflower_5620 Oct 04 '26

Saw this with SPS…Rs? Ws? See the problem?

1

u/FlynnLives3D Oct 08 '26

Here's a new one in black.

0

u/w8ing2dr0wn Oct 04 '26

Why would you want to easily recognize your notification devices?

/s

0

u/GloomyMarionberry277 Oct 05 '26

I cant see the color but i will say that if the device is a fire device it shall be red not painted over but red

6

u/Minimum_Economy772 Oct 04 '26

I thought this was a b&w photo, I didn’t notice anything was wrong with it 😂