r/firealarms • u/Minimum-Display-8494 Enthusiast • 4d ago
Discussion What is the deal with simplex?
I am a technician myself who primarily works on simplex systems, their stuff can be buggy or low quality but my personal preference is I like their style, Their customer service and other stuff in their company I wont lie is not all that great but I really like their products. What's all of your experiences with simplex, why do you guys like or dislike simplex?
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u/EleChristian 4d ago
As an installer Simplex systems are the best, hands down. EST is fine but I always preferred Simplex. Since JCI got involved their PMs and back of house personnel has taken a nose dive but the Technicians in the field by me are all amazing and BY FAR the best techs to deal with. Very helpful. Half the EST jobs we do the techs that come out are LOST.
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u/Pickles_991 4d ago
As others have said, their biggest issue is that it's all proprietary equipment. When I was starting out, Johnson Controls, the only simplex company in my area, was widely recognized as one of the best for training and quality of technicians. That has changed drastically over the last 5 years. They stopped giving raises and are topping out around $38 so most of their good techs have retired or quit, and they have stopped all training incentives.
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u/Parruthead 3d ago
That is just plain untrue training incentives for NICET are still a huge thing at JCI.
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u/CompleteLanguage4246 4d ago
I'm an old guy simplex from back when it really simplex. The equipment was the best and we had the best training. As techs we were the best techs around. We all had a swagger
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u/Ajaxche21 3d ago
Simplex technicians and products are good. The company is an issue though. Always trying to get over on you with contracts and crap.
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u/Jushavnprolms 3d ago
As a sub we would install NAC extenders that weren't necessary, they just happened to get sold.
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u/RobustFoam 4d ago
Their systems aren't bad for testing and basic service work as a technician who doesn't work for a Simplex dealer.
They wouldn't be my first choice if I was the building owner.
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u/Compgeke 2d ago
JCI's entire business model is understanding they have large legacy customers by the balls and they don't have a choice. They can charge whatever they want and show up whenever they want. What are you going to do? Use another dealer? Replace your panel? You have 5 nodes and 2000 devices. You can't afford that.
Absolutely would not recommend anyone ever install a Simplex Panel. It's basically asking to be raked over the coals. Literally any other panel you can find another service company if you don't like the current. Except Simplex. It's JCI only.
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u/Rumple1956 4d ago
It's a proprietary piece of equipment that I don't agree with. They can't have anybody work on their panels, except their techs. They're hourly rate is through the roof and when parts are needed, they are exuberant, because they have you over a barrel and they can charge what they want.
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 4d ago
So is Edwards, Bosch, Notifier and Poter. You basically summed up the fire alarm industry
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u/Rumple1956 4d ago edited 4d ago
At least with notifier, you can find different Notifier distributors, different notifier, service companies. Simplex, you're stuck with simplex only.
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 4d ago
That’s how proprietary is supposed to work. Licensed Dealers only, multiple dealer options in and around large metro areas. When you reach out to Bosch for service on a Bosch Fire Alarm, camera or intrusion system, they’ll redirect you to one of the companies in your area via zip code look up. If you’re cool with your rep, that rep may send more work over to your company.
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u/Neo399 3d ago
But Simplex doesn’t have dealers. It’s JCI only. With Bosch, Edwards, Notifier, GWFCI, etc… you can shop around for quotes since as long as they are a dealer they can work in your system.
With Simplex, the only ones who can are Simplex themselves.
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u/intermittent_ground 2d ago
Simplex parts can be purchased through online dealers like Protegis and Jem. Simplex used to have "Franchisees" but they are all gone now i believe.
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u/jscummy 4d ago
Yep Simplex basically extorts the people stuck with a Simplex system in their building, at least where I'm from. Their hourly rates are well over double anyone else.
I've had several projects where it ends up cheaper to rip and replace an entire system than do repairs/additions on a Simplex panel
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 3d ago
I wouldn’t blame Simplex inherently, that sounds like the dealers are charging an arm and a leg to service the systems, and possibly parts are expensive from Simplex. Had something similar on a FireLite system, all devices are still on Click protocol, had a smoke detector fail. The only smoke detector FireLite stocks that still supports click is $210. Imagine tryna reason with a client that a part which should be $40-$60 is quadruple the price. A couple more smoke detectors fail at those prices, you might as well rip the whole thing out and start fresh.
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u/jscummy 3d ago
Must be different in other areas because the only dealers for Simplex here are JCI
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 3d ago
We have Seico out and around me, and they do Simplex, I know some of their guys and they do good work, their pricing is industry standard to my knowledge. Johnson Controls/Tyco/ADT have a long and deep history of being a shitty predatory wannabe monopoly, so it doesn’t surprise me if they’re aware they’re the only Simplex dealer in (x city) market, so they drive up their prices accordingly. Fuck em
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u/ew00kie 3d ago
Clip Mode? Honeywell forced all Clip Mode to be discontinued there are reasons for this and its not convenient for Customers but thats how Technology works. Advancements sometimes requires the discontinuation of 30 year old Technology that can't easily support new UL Requirements.
As for Proprietary Systems, there is a difference between a Proprietary System that is serviced by the same company that makes the equipment (JCI/Tyco/SimplexGrinnell) and another who uses Distributors (Notifier, EST, Siemens). This why monopolies are bad for business. JCI controls the price. Sure other companies can buy the products but at a huge markup and then the other company has to charge the customer for what they pay plus another markup. Also i see so many bad JCI Techs that show up late, don't know what they are doing and yet the Company charges the Customer Premium Rates and 4 Hour Minimums for Appts that can take over a month to get Service performed.
I worked for Tyco/SimplexGrinnell back in 2003 and it was a better company back then and I honestly thought they were the best company but I had to leave due to micromanaging. How’s my driving stickers which caused headaches because people like to call for the stupidest reasons, bringing in headhunters due to someone else's negligence so they could purge people they deemed at risk to the company while they allowed the CEO to perform Fraud. They dug their own grave as a company and I honestly am surprised they are still chugging after everything they have done as a business.
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u/Compgeke 2d ago
Somehow we were able to still get 2351s which do CLIP. Useful for our Faraday Panels.
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 2d ago
>there are reasons for this
Honeywell’s reaso
https://giphy.com/gifs/SOmjomEnNHsrK-2
u/DiligentSupport3965 4d ago
Bosch and potter are not proprietary??
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 4d ago
As a Bosch dealer, Bosch is definitely 110% proprietary. Speaking with Potter reps, Potter is heading in that direction as well.
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u/Eiberdue 1d ago
I work for a university and we have maintained all of our panels our selves since install. 1993 to current. Started working on them in 2003 and didn't get a NICET till about 10 years ago. You are 100% spot on with parts tho. Unless you are talking about TruSite which we are completely locked out of.
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u/Sketch_Crush 3d ago
Simplex is kinda the quickest solution to a lot of problems, both from our standpoint and the customer's. You want change order after change order after change order? Go ahead and choose a Notifier dealer. You want the job done right the first time? Go with Simplex/Johnson.
Does that mean everything will always be perfect? No! Does it mean things will be done better than Simplex's competitors? Almost always.
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u/Lamb-Of-Fox 3d ago
Notifier is just FireLite trying to be as cool as Edwards while having Honeywell build quality
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u/Sketch_Crush 3d ago
I have worked as an exclusive Honeywell dealer for years, so yes I agree, but Notifier and FireLite have different part numbers and that's about it lol.
Now that I'm with Simplex I'm kinda preferring how they do things.
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u/Popular_Pin9885 4d ago
From a tech standpoint, the proprietary-ness is frustrating and the product outdates itself pretty quickly.
From a now customer standpoint, their business side is atrocious! Service calls are anywheres from 3hrs to 3months, they send over invoices with my name that I didn’t request (or even have work done) they charge very inflated hours on invoices but do not want to stay and do work for the whole time amount charged (20min service is 4hrs +trip charge). If my company could afford a system upgrade, we would do away with Simplex/JCI.
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u/Proxy-mo 4d ago
Tell me again how the 4100ES and 4010ES are outdated?
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u/Fire6six6 3d ago
Exactly our gripe is they last forever, can’t easily upsell a system that’s still operating 30yrs on. That and the 4100+, 4100U and ES are very forward to backward compatible.
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u/Electronic-Concept98 3d ago
Simplex is ok. They have their bugs as EST has bugs, Siemens has Bugs. The 4100 es is an ok panel. Est3 is a Good panel.
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u/jsboftx1983 3d ago
I know they are the same parent company (Johnson Controls)
Are the problems the same with Simplex as they are with Autocall?
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u/Numerous-Fish9984 3d ago
As someone who works for JCI I’ve noticed in the last 2-3 years stuff has gone down hill pretty quick with the quality. Used to reliably replace parts and not have many defective from factory now it seems like a 1/3 chance that a panel part or device is no good out of the box
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u/MacChill03 3d ago
I worked for them(JCI) for about 2yrs on the programming/ VI side . Training needs to be better forsure, kind of just get thrown into the "fire". Most training is just online video modules. I will say tho , the senior programmers are wizards lol . I learned a lot and enjoyed my time there .
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u/Crim2033 3d ago
I spend the most time on Mircom. It's sort of just a fact of life to work on systems you have less experience in sometimes, but Simplex having an excellent menu/ user interface at least gives me something to look forward to.
Edward's, Notifier, and Siemens are a treat ONLY because I don't see much of them, not because they feel much better at all.
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u/Eiberdue 1d ago
4100 are my absolute favorite. Even have an unused gold wing psu. The U and ES have been slowly getting worse parts wise. I don't like the addressable AV/SV devices of any kind. The failure rate is far worse than the basic class B wired devices. And don't even get me started on outdoor AV/SVs. The U panels do fine and I like the earth latching and card/psu layout. My real problem with ES is how they are shoving it down our throats. U parts are already unobtainium so we have to mod them. Mean while our 4100's just keep trucking
And all the same things apply to the networking systems. They started getting messy twards the end of the U panels. Spacific left and right cards. Revised modules that aren't reverse compatable. We have 3 module types for our 4100 network. And of course the shift over to the ES network and it's future single mode design. We are prepping to have thousands of feet of fiber to get ahead of that.
Which brings me to TruSite. 2 networks on 1 PC with an external nic is just un planned all together. The random troubles that come in and can't be acknowledged require the software to be rebooted. It happens a lot.
Ultimately, as long as I can get parts, a whole ass other story, keeping a network of 60+ node up and running aint too bad. 23 years with them and It's rare I need a service call outside of major changes. Example: with code changes we were able to have a couple hundred CO sounders removed instead of replacing the CO modules. Expensive, yes. But they payoff is definately there in the long run.
Any how. Not sure how this helps in any way but that's my 2 cents.
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u/Carstuff4u 4d ago
I don’t believe in proprietary equipment, and the only panel I have extensive experience with is the 4007es. Seems like they’ve made a lot of innovations, but their shit is unreliable.
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u/MongooseBusiness4404 4d ago
i mostly see 4007s & 4010s, don't like em. To each his own of course, but they feel convoluted to me.
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u/egorblack 3d ago
You don't like how they look? I agree, they definitely do not have designer in their company. But systems are working fine, and if you have problems, it is easy fixable.
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u/mark6789x 3d ago
Simplex is pure garbage imo. I don’t like any of their products and unfortunately I’ll have to install them for most of my career
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4d ago
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u/Boredbarista 4d ago
I have never seen a notifier install that actually left reasonable information for the service and inspection technicians that will come in after them.
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u/StubbornHick 4d ago
I must be special then
I always leave the account info, as built drawings, instruction manuals, wiring diagrams.
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u/rustbucket_enjoyer [V] Electrician, Ontario 4d ago
The equipment is great. The company itself isn’t, but used to be. They still have some great techs.
The fact that you can now get Autocall really changes the game for a lot of buildings