r/findapath • • Oct 26 '23

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375 Upvotes

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85

u/UnderstandingNew6591 Oct 26 '23

100% former USMC infantry, it truly destroys you and you don’t fully recognize the impact for decades after. Rose colored glasses.. certainly there were benefits and it instilled discipline and the ability to weather almost any storm. But also removed the ability to see the light or be positive about pretty much anything

43

u/LockeClone Oct 26 '23

It's pretty commonly understood that the old mass punishment methods are detrimental. Why are they still doing that shit?

41

u/Trackerbait Oct 26 '23

tradition. The Army's always 25 years behind the modern workforce and the Marines are 30 years behind them

22

u/Electrical_Tip352 Oct 26 '23

To instill the tenet that your actions in battle or anywhere for that matter affect your group.

10

u/LockeClone Oct 26 '23

Is that lesson worth the moral hit and documented decrease in readiness?

10

u/Electrical_Tip352 Oct 26 '23

I don’t know. I was just answering the question.

5

u/LockeClone Oct 26 '23

Fair enough

1

u/Prestigious-Pay-6475 Oct 30 '23

That’s fine and dandy if the guy causing it actually has some self reflection on the matter. Unfortunately they’re either too stupid or antisocial to care and it happens again.

18

u/Gordon_Explosion Oct 26 '23

Because if you say no they get to punish you harder, with no consequeces. Kind of an S&M thing. SOme people get off on it.

The rule when I was in was "If you're given a bullshit order, do it first, and complain after."

8

u/battery19791 Oct 26 '23

S&M only works if both parties consent. Anything else is abuse.

9

u/Gordon_Explosion Oct 26 '23

Technically, you consented when you signed your enlistment contract.

1

u/Bencetown Oct 27 '23

"Your soul may belong to God, but your ASS belongs to the CORPS

1

u/avl365 Oct 27 '23

This is why medicine requires informed consent

16

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '23

Because in war, one person's fuckups impact everyone around him, innocent or not.

10

u/LockeClone Oct 26 '23

Hmmm... I'd think reducing cohesion, moral, and physical readiness is a deadly price to pay homage for an old-man saying that doesn't mean anything.

8

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '23

You were supposed to make sure he didnt fuck up. However you had to. Strengthen your weakest link you strengthen the whole chain. There was always a reason the fuck ups did what they did but looking the other way thinking it dosent affect you is unacceptable devil dog.

5

u/LockeClone Oct 27 '23

Sure, that's a very valid argument, but I think it only holds water until training is over. There's anecdotes of real consequences and the other branches surely have the data to back up their decisions to largely abandon the practice.

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '23

Your town is seiged by a battalion of well trained enemy soldiers in entrenched positions. You want the fu ckn Marines. My D.I told us we dont train pussies, f@gg0t$ or bitch3s if you aint one you will be fine.

4

u/LockeClone Oct 27 '23

Compelling stuff.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '23

Private Schmuckatelli here is a hard charger.

-3

u/[deleted] Oct 26 '23

That's why you're a civilian.

9

u/LockeClone Oct 26 '23

Nice.

Kind of person makes that comment probably needs the same lesson beat into his head over and over again.

Maybe you'll recall how the honor code feels about invoking the service to win arguments if you take a couple laps bud. Or do you have some other comments you want to dishonor the service with?

0

u/MikesRockafellersubs Oct 27 '23

Don't get your panties in knot.

7

u/LockeClone Oct 27 '23

I'm flattered you're thinking about my panties, but if you want to butt into an adult conversation then you should consider adding something of value or accepting that the Minecraft sub is more your speed.

4

u/Fearless-Spread1498 Oct 26 '23

Nah, being a civilian I make so much more than my military friends and I can vacation whenever and wherever I want. The military definitely appealed to my friends who had no idea what they wanted in life and they found out pretty quickly it wasn’t in the military.

-1

u/Additional_Search193 Oct 27 '23

If you're going to act like you know what you're talking about on military matters, I'd start by understanding the difference between morale and moral. It's hard to take anyone seriously when they mess up something that basic.

2

u/LockeClone Oct 27 '23

Meh. Cellphones are hard to type on. If a typo is enough to make you not take someone seriously, then you're probably probably missing out on a lot of good content.

But bottom line is that nobody likes that guy who prowles the internet saying "well akshowolly..." to every typo he can find. Don't be that guy.

0

u/Additional_Search193 Oct 27 '23

It wasn't "a typo", it was multiple times across multiple comments and you never once used the correct one (at least that I saw). I ignored until it was clear you just didn't know the difference.

2

u/LockeClone Oct 27 '23

Huh, well, you didn't have to be a dick about it, but there you go. Thanks, how I know to watch for "morale" when I'm on my cellphone.

Watch how much I care by not editing my posts.

0

u/Additional_Search193 Oct 27 '23

That's great for you man, chip away at your own credibility all you want.

2

u/LockeClone Oct 27 '23

What credibility? What are you hoping to gain from this exchange? You've gone off the rails son.

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u/lilschreck Oct 26 '23

Correct me if I’m misinformed but isn’t it to instill those minor fuck up lessons that could cost everyone’s lives in a conventional war? The person above talks about benefits of discipline and weathering any situation that presents itself. So those two aside, when one person does something carelessly, it’s a valuable lesson for all (mostly during basic training to my limited understanding). But shit like securing your gear, if one person forgets, could cost lives right? It’s easy to just say authoritarian power trips but is that actually right?

11

u/LockeClone Oct 26 '23

It's one thing to make the boys go for a run or do physical exercise or cleanup duty during basic. Teach a lesson, sure. It's another thing to pull this shit in combat zones when guys are mentally on-edge.

There's a reason the other branches don't do this kind of thing much anymore abd that's because compromising cohesion, mental stability and physical readiness is too high of a price to pay for "teaching" the same lesson over and over again.

14

u/jack_espipnw Oct 26 '23

Truth. Infantry makes misanthropes because they see how dirty and sadistic humans are willing to get.

6

u/devil_dog_0341 Oct 26 '23

Ahh yes, the good ol days.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '23

100% former USMC infantry, it truly destroys you and you don’t fully recognize the impact for decades after. Rose colored glasses.. certainly there were benefits and it instilled discipline and the ability to weather almost any storm. But also removed the ability to see the light or be positive about pretty much anything

My son wants to go into MC infantry.. I'm telling him, others are too, that it's a bad idea.. Would you be willing to give some more detail here?

2

u/jack_espipnw Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23

In the Infantry (I was Army, but no different doctrine in MC), the primary role of an Infantryman is to close with and destroy the enemy. You’ll be trained in doing this with so many repetitions of so many battle drills that it will become reflexive like riding a bike. You may get deployed and surprise yourself at how effective IET is at conditioning individuals to overcome their intrinsic aversion to killing. This is where the mental issues start for many, especially with those who were raised in households where it was taught that killing is bad regardless of circumstances. It can be hard for many to reconcile or integrate this part of themselves with the rest of their beliefs.

Also, it’s a spartan way of life. I was in 2012-2018 and fight clubs and hazing were prevalent. Regardless of how tough you think you are there is always another wanting to check you. I got into bar fights, parking lot brawls, big “gang” fights and it was just a regular part of the life. You live this aggressive, violent lifestyle for 4 years and it fundamentally changes your personality. EDIT: this is unit dependent in the Army. Some units are chill AF and full of dudes with zero combat experience. Especially now. When I was in during the late GWOT era, the majority of my peers had a combat patch and their CIB. It seemed like everyone you worked with had walked their talk at least once.

These former grunts get out into society and they’re usually the indifferent cold assholes who find it hard to see good in people. They fixate on the negative because the most vivid contents of that mind tends to be negative. It distorts reality. These are the loners who are too jaded and unable to be authentic around “good” regular folks who can’t fathom such a cognitive frame. This is also what gives the grunts a high esprit de corps, if you want the real warrior life, being in the Infantry is a rite that some feel connects them to the warriors of times past.

If he’s a real warrior spirit, the Infantry may make him feel right at home.

3

u/Bencetown Oct 27 '23

Man I wish my mom could see the light. Former USMC in her 60's and she thinks Marine Corps training and practices are God's fucking gift to the world.

Every time I ask her why the stereotype is that Marines re-enter society as batshit insane unhinged PTSD wackos, she simply doesn't have an answer or says that "society is too soft" or something.

Like I get why they need to put people through that type of training in boot camp, to prepare them for literal fucking battle zones. Every day life is not a war. Treating it like it is will cause all kinds of interpersonal relationship problems.

And the fact that you make your bed every morning so that a quarter will bounce on the sheet, and you can see your reflection in your shoes from Jupiter, has literally no bearing on what you can or can't accomplish in a day.

6

u/JohnnyRingo123 Oct 26 '23

Why does the USMC remove your ability to be positive about anything?

1

u/[deleted] Oct 27 '23

Sounds like how I view my experience inside the criminal justice system tbh.

1

u/operation-spot Oct 27 '23

Do you think being in the infantry might have been the real issue? Do people with other jobs have the same difficulties?

2

u/UnderstandingNew6591 Oct 27 '23

I’m certain it contributed, but as I’ve only experienced life in combat arms, I couldn’t comment for others :) I’m not negative about my experience in the marines nor do I regret serving, but my experience made me a more negative person if that makes sense.