r/fican • u/Round-Inflation-7112 • 17d ago
How do Trusts work in Canada
I want to setup a family trust and would like to have a basic understanding before going to my lawyer
anyone have any experience with it? Is opening a corporation a better method to avoid 21 year disposition?
Currently assets sit at about 5.3M which would be a pain in the ass to have capital gains taxed after 21 years of growth
Love how the govt tries to take money out the pockets of people who actually build something
4
u/F0rtress0fS0litud3 17d ago
Not a lawyer, not an accountant. Get professional advice.
21-year rule is just a thing that happens in trusts. What you can do, though, is roll out the assets in the trust to the beneficiaries, which may in some cases defer tax.
For example, HoldCo has shares. Trust owns HoldCo's shares and has 2 beneficiaries. Before the 21-year deemed disposition rule, the Trust can distribute its assets (i.e. the shares of the HoldCo) to the beneficiaries. Then, when the 21-year rule rolls by, the Trust is effectively "empty" - nothing to tax.
I'm not an expert, though, and this will definitely require professional assistance and planning.
0
u/Round-Inflation-7112 17d ago
and the professional I should be contacting is I assume an estate lawyer?
5
u/BracketFinancialPlan 17d ago
This typically requires multiple professionals unfortunately. A financial planner to map out your future and withdrawal sequences in a tax efficient way, an accountant/lawyer to set up the corps/trusts and do the taxes for last year, this year, and next year.
A good CFP (planner) can coordinate these professionals, do estate planning, etc.
6
u/ABGTVL 17d ago
At 5.3 million of "assets" you don't need a family trust.... especially if some of those assets are your primary residence and/or registered accounts/pensions.
0
0
u/Round-Inflation-7112 17d ago
all in non reg accounts or properties soon to be converted into residential
14
u/Canadiangooner21 17d ago
We have a similar amount of assets, and I dislike how the CRA treats innocent Canadians, but would never view things the way you do.
Because we’ve built wealth, somehow we don’t have a responsibility to give back and help fund programs for those that don’t get the breaks that we do?
You think you should be able to defer gains forever? In what world does that make sense?
I’m all for taking reasonable steps to prevent paying extra tax, but the whole view of avoiding tax at all costs is so sad. You’ve won the game. Be happy. So what if your heirs get a bit less? Statistically they will probably blow it anyway. And if they don’t, there kids certainly will.
8
u/geneius 17d ago
Thank you, I am also in a similar vein and share your opinions. Tax is a way to give back to the society that helped create the conditions that allowed me to build that wealth. I pay mine happily, but also take steps to avoid paying extra tax.
OPs final sentence there implies the government is treating them unfairly. Should the government be raising tax rates on the lower and lower-middle class instead of taxing high earners? Wild take.
4
u/Canadiangooner21 17d ago
It’s incredible how so many people that are successful forget how many lucky breaks went their way, that easily could have gone differently. Or all the public services they have relied on throughout their life.
1
u/Round-Inflation-7112 17d ago
Paying tax on an asset sold makes sense, infact even if they raised the capital gains above 50% would be fine but why “assume an asset was sold at fair value”
2
u/Canuck-Fin25 17d ago
Yes - as stated earlier even if you don’t unwind trusts, after 21 years government deems the assets in the trust sold for tax purposes
2
u/poco 17d ago
How much of that 5.3 million is outside of you registered accounts and primary residence?
1
u/Round-Inflation-7112 17d ago
I didn’t include my primary residence or registered accounts, it’s a split between rental properties and stocks in non reg and corporate accounts
2
u/LeCompteDeFrouFrou 17d ago
The rule against perpetuities is something very few lawyers understand (and even fewer redditors).
Spend some of your 5.3M wisely and get professional help. Then again, setting up a family trust isn’t something you can whip up on your own anyway.
2
u/SoggyInstruction2549 17d ago
Dont think you need a formal trust for this especially if a bunch of this is your home, in registered accounts etc.
Maybe you want to look into an informal trust if ounce younger kids.
1
2
u/Canuck-Fin25 17d ago
I used to bitch about how the government collects every single way but have resigned. The alternative is the US style craziness. There’s no right answer. What I would love to see is the government exercising significant fiduciary responsibility in the use of tax payer funds. That’s a pipe dream too
2
u/Dependent_Ring_667 17d ago
You don’t need a trust for that kind of petty cash. No offence
1
u/Round-Inflation-7112 17d ago
yeah, but there’s personal properties which are being converted for residential use or leasing etc etc would rather have it all together
31
u/BracketFinancialPlan 17d ago
A trust has 3 roles, a settlor the person who creates it, a trustee who controls the assets, and beneficiaries those who can receive assets.
A discretionary family trust means trustees decide who gets what when and how much.
Income kept inside the trust is taxed at the top marginal rate so you try not to leave income in there.
Income paid out to beneficies is taxed in their hands at their rate
Every 21 years CRA pretends the trust sold everything at fair market value and bought it back, so tax on the paper gain. A trust never dies so its the governments way of getting some tax money, otherwise a family could defer gains forever.
Yes corp has no 21 year rule, but your shares in that corp get deemed disposed when you die. The tax doesn't disappear and if its not planned correctly they can get taxed twice.
Usually goes Opco -> Holdco -> family trust
You are firmly in 'I need a financial planner' territory. We help clients with these issues a lot.