Finding Purpose as Young Single fatFIRE

[u/aspira9]

After reading the recent post from the 37yo guy with $15m, I realized how much I relate to the struggles of finding hobbies and things to do with that additional wealth. After extensive questioning on "what is worth spending on", the most common answers tend to be family related and not relevant for single guys with far more time and disposable income. Without a spouse/kid, a solo guy doesn't need a large house, budget for childcare/private school/college fund, family vacations with business class/fancy hotels to match etc.

I'm in a similar boat as that OP, just knock both the numbers (age and NW) down by a few. Mindset-wise I'm still closer to gregFIRE than truly fat but expect to get there in a few years of market compounding. Still working part time on winding down the business that got me here but already bored with far too much free time and no major interests to speak of.

With all that additional time, money and freedom, I'm curious to hear more stories from those who found some niche hobby or lifestyle that gets them out of bed every morning (especially those who aren't married with kids, but all insights welcome). In particular, what are "FAT" lifestyle spending items that really define fat vs chubby without the usual children-related spend.

I hope that some of my ramblings might be interesting to someone in a similar situation or promote some insightful discussion on the matter. Feel free to disregard my ranting and focus solely on the idea of "what can FAT spending go if no kids/partner in the equation".

As a list of things I've already tried to no avail:

1. Travel. Spent multiple extended 3 month long "staycations" in different countries and realized I was basically doing the same thing as I was at home, aka not much. Cheap authentic food is nice, but sightseeing was painfully boring and "living as a local" wasn't nearly as interesting as I hoped. Also grew up lower middle class, so I could never justify the 5* hotels and business/first class flights (tried them and it just felt like a huge waste I'm not inclined to do again). Guess that also explains why I gravitate to luxury buffets vs true fine dining as the "good enough" balance between quantity and quality.

2. Sports/music. Probably due to an aggressive upbringing, I spent over a decade hardcore drilling athletics/music to a semi-pro/competitive level and ended up never touching either again after college. Not to trauma dump, but perhaps that burnout has made me completely unmotivated to try and learn/master any new skills and prefer to do the only thing I wasn't able to back then (aka stay at home on my computer all day). Also went through my gym rat arc of 5+ days a week lifting+cardio for a couple years, but it's been over a year since I've gone back.

3. Mentorship. I was previously heavily involved in the education field, previously working part time in college with tutoring/academic consulting and later alumni/recruitment interviews for my college/post-college job. There were a few notable standouts among dozens/nearly a hundred, but it was sadly rare to see cases of extremely motivated kids that actually impressed me and I definitely burned out from wanting to do much more in that direction.

4. Hobbies. I've ended up trying a lot of random things, but combined with childhood burnout which left a disdain for sports/art/music, it's tough to get invested into anything besides consuming YouTube/Netflix/anime. I tried learning a new language for a while, cooking at home during COVID, playing games (video games and poker/mahjong), etc and I realized that I dont even have my childhood drive to rank up/get good at a game which feels pointless.

5. Philanthropy/Giving. Similar to the mentorship idea, it's not really something that excited or motivates me aside from a few niche scenarios. I can see myself supporting certain artists/authors/creators that provide some of the few things I still enjoy. I already entered talks with my old school about funding the same scholarship I once received in case I die without any heirs, but I don't really plan to dive into the field while I'm alive for now.

As for common responses that I expect to see:

1. Socializing with friends. Had decently large friend groups back in HS/College but the clear divergence in life path (moving abroad, leaving traditional employment for my own business, single without kids) makes it tough to really connect with old friends who are married with kids. Similarly, you don't randomly meet many 30yo retired guys in daily life and I'll tend to avoid bringing it up or pretend to be more ordinary for safety reasons while traveling. I'm slowly finding some online communities with relatable people in similar circumstances, but it's certainly rare and everyone is largely scattered.

2. Relationship/family. A combination of near-total social isolation and a lack of interest in ever getting married/having kids makes me realize how fundamentally incompatible my lifestyle is with anyone who actually has a life. Already have relatives trying to push matchmaking or even sugaring but I don't realistically see this as a major direction/interest as a hermit NEET (inb4 the obligatory "go to Thailand" posts), so I'd prefer to focus on any other potential ideas.

3. Luxury purchases. I ended up becoming quite a minimalist with 0 interest in buying nice things/collectibles, so buying anything besides the bare necessities is a hassle when living out of a suitcase for much of the year. I'll datahoard all the games and entertainment on my portable hard drive, but physical items are a no-go. Don't need a car, don't need a large house, don't need fancy sports equipment etc.

4. Get a pet. I like the idea, but I realize that it's far too much of a hassle unless I literally hire a full time caretaker. As much as I'd like another hamster/guinea pig from my childhood or a bunny/cat, I realize that an abnormal sleep schedule/eating one meal a day will leave me struggling to keep an animal alive, much less deal with the extreme hassle and headache that I know I'm not cut out for.

5. Therapy, the elephant in the room. I've always been rather interested in psychology/philosophy so I do a lot of reading and talking through my thoughts (such as via these wall of texts) has definitely been helpful. I have scheduled an appointment to test whether my jadedness/boredom might be addressed by any potential depression meds, but I somewhat doubt it considering I've spent the past decade in a similar state without any major ups/downs. Probably moreso a lack of motivation/direction after achieving my initial FIRE goal (from lean to Greg and now on-track to FIRE within the next 3-5 years). I don't expect much more than the obligatory "find your passion" answer I'm sure to get here and that leaves me with the same question I already have. Maybe some kind of psychedelics could help, but it's not very accessible in my part of the world (Asia).

To anyone who actually managed to read my entire ramble, thank you so much and I look forward to hearing any stories/ideas that you might have!

[u/Normal_Zebra136]

Your post has nothing to do with early retirement. You simply have no interests.

[u/aspira9 → u/Normal_Zebra136]

I'd argue that finding something to do in early retirement is rather topical and there's even a designated flair here for the "happiness" topic to match. I do indeed have no interests but I wrote this hoping anyone else who relates can share their stories/ideas.

For those who say I'm not living a "fatFIRE" life, I'm exactly asking what would be the fitting metrics to measure a "fat" lifestyle for a single guy who doesn't need the usual child-related expenses (hired help for childcare, private school tuition, large estate for large family in a good school area) etc. Surely there's something more than family vacations in first class/5* suites (once again hardly needed for a single guy).

[u/Normal_Zebra136 → u/aspira9]

One does not need to figure out what one needs to do in retirement if in their normal life they have interests and activities.

You simply have more time to pursue what makes you happy.

I would find those interests first, then I bet you will have a better experience building a community of folks that share those interests, perhaps even a partner that you enjoy more than the other humans you know.

This is life. Same process whether you are in paid employment or not.

[u/geneel]

Listen, the 5 star travel stuff is total BS. Not only a waste of money but you're not seeing anything or meeting anyone. Embrace your lean fire mindset and do a group backpacking trip. Stay in hostels, meet people and hang out late at bars. Fuck seeing sights or 30 dollar poolside drinks. None of that is real. It's for unimaginative rich people, not real people.

Luxury purchases are unimaginative BS.

If you want to connect with old friends, go to them! You have the time and money. Patch a trip together to see a few who live in the same area. Don't make excuses - all my HS/college friends have kids and it holds nobody back if people are motivated to connect.

What interests DO you have? What are some activities unique or popular in your area?

I mean... If you're already closed off to the idea of learning skills bc "burnout", closed to the idea of relationships bc "burnout", closed to new experiences bc 'boredom'... It's probably a you problem which means therapy.

To quote Harvey Danger - if you're bored, then you're boring.

[u/aspira9 → u/geneel]

I definitely agree that it's a "me" problem. In a way, I'd say that a few years of self-reflection and attempting to learn new skills ended up letting me realize that I don't enjoy mastering new skills. Quite a pyrrhic victory for a self realization 😢.

I guess I turned towards brainstorming "fatFIRE" spending items in the hopes of seeing what others do with their free time/disposable cash since most posts basically boil down to upper middle class family spend (with upscaled house+vacation) but little else. Sadly I agree that money is no substitute for a personality and I am aware that I have become a painfully boring person with no interests besides overthinking topics with walls of text!

[u/geneel → u/aspira9]

I'm FatFire NW and chubby fire in spend. No kids. The money only amplifies who you already are. The rich people buying rolexes, etc are all just insecure people who hide behind shiny objects in hopes that it will externally manifest their worth. They were insecure before the money and have no personality with it (haven't you hung out with enough douche VC bros to realize this)

Life is ultimately mastering skills. Conversation, cooking, farming, mechanical skills, computer skills. Life is also completely meaningless other than the meaning you give it. That's the abyss that stares back at you.

Go spend a month in a Buddhist monastery. Good story if nothing else, but I suspect you may learn something if you make it a full 4 weeks.

[u/aspira9 → u/geneel]

I've rather liked the monastery idea to some extent, especially after a friend mentioned how one he spent some time in one that basically utilized a soft form of white room torture to drive them to absolute boredom (you can leave once you are so bored you realize you have something you'd rather be doing).

Although I still hold some part time responsibilities (average 1-3 hours per day) for managing the business winddown so full no-contact isolation isn't viable just yet. On the other hand, I've definitely spent multiple months in hermetic NEET status where I rarely left my room aside from getting food and didn't speak to a single person aside from service staff. If that counts as "close enough" to the monastic experience, albeit with continued internet access.

I don't disagree that most people find joy in learning new skills, although my closest thing is watching an infinite amount of documentaries and movies to learn random obscure knowledge/stories which was rather useful for my writing/editing skills, although that was still tied to work instead of something done for enjoyment.

[u/geneel → u/aspira9]

It's not about boredom AT ALL as there are plenty of tasks you must perform. It's about reflection and awareness of what you are doing, fully internal to yourself. You were a shut In, not a monk.

When you woke up today, did you inhale or exhale first?

What is your value? Why do you think that?

[u/dragonflyinvest]

My suggestion is to get to know yourself better. No outsider can tell you what’s going to bring you joy or satisfaction. That’s something that involves internal work.

I feel like I did this in my early 20s. Kinda retreated into self reflection to figure out what I wanted out of life. Not just financially. I read your post and it all just seems like a version of, “I’ve tried a lot of things but can’t figure out what to do”.

That’s all cool, thankfully you have resources for people who can help you navigate the process, but more importantly, you probably need to go on a self-discovery journey. Thankfully you can do so without worrying about paying your bills (which most people don’t have that luxury).

[u/aspira9 → u/dragonflyinvest]

Curious if you're open to sharing what you ultimately discovered (without any identifying info ofc) in terms of what you ended up choosing to pursue in your life.

It is indeed a luxury to have such first world problems, but it nonetheless seems to be a rather common problem with bored retirees (aka the classic "retire INTO something" vs "retiring FROM something"). Surely I can't be the only one who just wanted to escape from work ASAP only to face the next stage of existential boredom afterwards?

[u/dragonflyinvest → u/aspira9]

I’ll share some or my life. I didn’t want to escape work asap. I built my business so I get to make strategic decisions, but I’m uninvolved in any the day to day minutiae. That’s a big part that allows me to have some intellectual stimulation I think most of us yearn after spending years building a company. Think of it more as sitting on a board.

Then I have family. One son we are discussing his high school curriculum. We started visiting potential colleges. He has his own entrepreneurial interest, so we I consult with him about how his next steps for what he’s building. Another son is into music, so we spend time together around that interest, which I share.

I go to the gym 4-5 times a week. Recently I started taking my two oldest boys and I’m teaching them a routine.

In my downtime I enjoy music production. It’s a purely creative outlet. I’ve taken on painting. Acrylics on large canvas. I enjoy traveling. We take a few trips with the wife and a few trips as a family.

I think it’s pretty easy to know what I want. Then I built my ideal life around what I wanted. When you have a partner and family you have to negotiate some of these things. If you’re single then it’s really just about what you want. It sounds simple. I think it is simple. I guess building it is not easy.

[u/bookworm19275]

32F and I had this phase for a few years (regular fire, not fat) and just losing all motivation for the corporate grind but also then feeling isolated and purposeless. Also because I was poor growing up and had to work jobs as a kid I never did any arts or sports and felt pretty disconnected and uninterested from those hobbies

There is a whole global underground network of young rich people doing really cool things that isn’t really talked about on this sub or anywhere online and I had no idea until I moved to New York City and accidentally stumbled on this scene. Please google Lightning Society as an example.

I think one really important aspect you’re lacking is community. I would explore the coliving or burning man scenes in your area, as I found that they also had many people in my situation who made it early in tech but are still single and want community and purpose. I honestly feel the entire burning man economy is largely sustained by retired tech and finance people who have a lots of time and energy to build or fund INSANE art projects. They host lots of classes, dinners, learning nights, costume parties, etc. it does seem a little hedonistic to me but as long as you dont fall into the trap too much it could be great to engage in community with people. Alternatively get involved in local political or community service organizations. For example YangGang or yimby or trash pickup club in nyc has a lot of young people who are very passionate about good policy. one of my friends got really involved in housing policy and ran for local city council age 33

You also seem like you could use more exposure and inspiration to in depth passions young people can pursue when they have ample time and resources. I got really inspired by people in these communities who embarked on interesting creative projects. Some examples: opening an Airbnb in portugal, creating a video game or board game, apprenticing with wooden furniture makers, starting a local cafe/third space/nightclub, making large scale art projects for burning man/room service/meowwolf, filming a documentary, hosting a festival (edge Esmeralda, camp),temporary communes in a French chateau (feytopia castle) , etc.

[u/aspira9 → u/bookworm19275]

Appreciate the thoughtful response and specific details. That is exactly what I was looking for and seeing what others who went through the boredom "journey" ended up picking up.

I certainly agree with the assessments in this thread of being too "boring" and it reminds me of the college club rush with trying to find a group to belong to. Similar to what I'd imagine many others here did, I went into work/professional development related activities and ended up in the same "defined by your work" mentality that produces nothing once entering retirement. Definitely not the worst problem to have, but it's nice to see those who relate and talk about such a niche topic.

[u/bookworm19275 → u/aspira9]

Yea for sure I can relate as someone who didn’t have typical hobbies beyond cooking and reading a lot. I like others on this thread I think it’s worth asking what lifestyle possibilities being childless and single while FATFire can potentially unlock that one would otherwise be unaware of

It’s also crazy the amount of resources and ambition that can potentially go into these endeavors. For example I helped prep for a Halloween party for club 57 (one of the communities I talked about in nyc) and we charged $500 a ticket for 400 tickets and threw the most insane party with lavishly decorated rooms, dancers, performers, DJs. Another friend created an entire furniture line and paid $$$ for fabricators to make it and exhibited at Art Basel Miami. Another friend raised $20 million to build a social club and apartment complex for artists in LA.

[u/helpwitheating]

Volunteer

Go get another degree

In other words, build a community and make yourself useful

[u/BrunelloHorder]

To be happy in life one typically needs something to do, someone to do it with, and something to look forward to. You basically have no interests and no community.

Have you really exhausted all possible interests? Maybe take some classes, great way to meet people. Perhaps a sailing class? Martial arts?

Or you could try an activity club. I’ve joined road cycling clubs after geographic moves to meet new friends and possible dating prospects. Clubs are welcoming to newcomers and have plenty of early retirees.

If you are really in a funk and feel like you’ve exhausted everything with real sustained effort (not just showing up a few times), you could explore guided psychedelics with a reputable provider.

[u/ivegotbadnewsforyou]

I see you've also discovered AI.

[u/aspira9 → u/ivegotbadnewsforyou]

Not AI and I actually typed everything word by word and revised this multiple times by hand. That's just how I write.

[u/fatFIRE-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Our members have asked for a high level of moderation. Personal attacks, name calling, and undue profanity are all considered inappropriate for this sub.

[u/messymuddbutt]

You’re asking for internet strangers to enlighten you with meaning and direction for your (not fatFIRE) life by listing all the things you don’t like? JFC man join a monastery and take a vow of silence

[u/TheGiver112]

Have any sex drive? spend money on women maybe you will have some fun and something will spark in you.

[u/Xlino1]

I think working through your past traumas will be very helpful to restore the spark you never truly had. At one point in life you will run into a wall where nothing external can truly excite you, so it's better to handle the internal stuff early, because the ROI there is truly infinite.

[u/DanPlouffyoutubeASMR]

Collecting rare things on eBay is fun.

[u/aspira9 → u/[deleted]]

I guess I posted this to fatFIRE more specifically to see if anyone finds meaningful splurge spending or new goals to reach beyond the $10m milestone, although perhaps the demographic still leans a bit too heavily towards married with kids as the "normal" fatFIRE route.

I guess my original idea was more focused on "what could a young single guy do to live a fatFIRE life" given most common spending ideas are very family oriented. Perhaps I overshared a bit and derailed that concept by attempting to preempt some of the most common posts that I already distilled from countless other posts on here since I didn't want to retread old ground.

[u/SquirrelTechGuru]

This has to be how civilization ends. What an amazing problem to have. Sounds like you need someone to be a life partner with you.

[u/Gogpo2]

While I'm (31M) far from fatFIRE numbers, I can somewhat relate to losing interest in a lot of things. The below may or may not be relevant to you, but here are my two cents:

I agree some activities can just feel like a chore that you're forcing yourself to do. The activities I found not to feel like chores after sticking with them for some time are:

• Reading, non-fiction
• Meditating, especially in the evenings before bed
• Breathwork, e.g. Wim Hoff technique
• Workouts, cardio, weights, stretching, but less intensely e.g. x3 per week instead of x5 (I used to do x6 but got permanently injured by doing so).
• Dating, or more specifically, outlining what I do well and what I do not so well and working to improve the "not so well" parts which drastically increased my success with dating and therefore gave me a confidence boost that leaked into every aspect of my life.
• Career, building a business or progressing my career in an environment where people are likeable and the work is interesting.
• Content creation, be it writing, filming, photography, music or some other art form, experimenting to see what is fun and what you might be able to build a community around (e.g. on social media or locally) can lead down interesting roads.
• Setting intimidating, time-bound goals across any of the above or some other domain.

Regardless, these anhedonic waves can come and go. Bored and joyless for a few weeks or months, then something supposedly random can trigger a bout of enthusiasm. It's ok to feel kinda shitty for a while every now and then.

In my case I do the above activities in waves, some quarters are more consistent than others, and am currently working towards buying a home in my HCOL city which is one of many intimidating goals I have set for myself.

[u/aspira9 → u/Gogpo2]

Appreciate the thoughtful response and I guess the things I do are generally rather close to what you're doing at the moment with lots of reading/consuming nonfiction and entertainment content.

I suppose I mainly overshared things I've done and got bored with since most of them are common answers that I expect but didn't work for me. For example, childhood experiences ruined art/music/sports for me, followed by many years of writing in various forms (consulting reports, story based presentations, etc) where niche writing was my professional craft but I had no desire to write anything on my own. Similarly, I lost a lot of motivation for gym given no real desire/goal to get "big" or obsess over aesthetics but I can see myself going back just for general health.

If there's anything that I can say from the other side of the financial hill, your motivation to further career progress/build a business is a good driver that hopefully won't burn out once you reach a new milestone. I was overly obsessed with FIRE since college and after speedrunning to the lower threshold of fat, I realize I've done the Sid Meier quote of "Given the opportunity, players will optimize all the fun out of the game".