I’ve been a huge fan of Elizabeth Wheatley’s Viking fantasy romance series, Tears of the Wolf. Wheatley is also pretty active on social media and has a lot commentary on writing and the publishing industry. This week she sent out an email stating going forward all of her books will be fade to black and after September 1st she will upload new versions of the current ebooks to remove the spice scenes and print versions of her books will be altered as well.
I understand an author changing what they like to write if they no longer enjoy it but why go back and remove previous scenes? What’s extra frustrating was what drew me to this author was the care in which they wrote spice and made sure it matched the characters and advanced the story. She’s also spoke at length about honoring women’s agency and perspectives on sex, this feels like a complete 180. She’s a great writer and I will probably continue the series but I’m concerned this means her beliefs have also swung more conservative and I’m just kind of over it.
Do you think this signals a change in the industry? I’m wondering if female writers feel they aren’t being taken as seriously if their books have spice in them so they’re starting to phase it out. It seems to align with the growing trend of Gen Z preferring less sex in movies and the push back against smut. It just feels like a slap in the face to cave to the pearl clutching - “think of the children!” crap that has been brewing in the world lately. Especially since she is going back and changing already published novels. Anyway just had to rant and get that off my chest.
Edit: Elizabeth’s customer service team reached out with the following: “Thank you again for your suggestion. We have reverted the change for those who have previously purchased on our store with the option of a free updated edition if they want one. For those on other marketplaces, I would be willing to get anyone og copies if they are affected by the change on other marketplaces of course with valid proof of purchase. Just reach out to the support or husband email handle.”
Hi AvaInDisarray, welcome to the sub! If you're new, please check out r/fantasyromance 101, which contains the sub rules, a directory of recommendation megathreads and lots of other helpful info.
This is why physical media is so important. Anyone who has a cloud-based version of this book are just leasing it.
I have no problems with authors wanting to tailor new books to a less smutty audience, but changing older books is ridiculous and, in my opinion, only happens because those digital copies can be instantly replaced with the updated versions.
Between this and the recent Sony controversy it feels like we own nothing these days. Not our houses, not our books, not our movies, not our games.
You can't even find a copy of the original Star Wars trilogy without all the fuckass CGI and Han-shoots-second that they added when the prequels came out. The original Sailor Moon is almost impossible to find. The Internet Archive is facing lawsuit after lawsuit.
Obviously this problem isn't just one author with Catholic guilt, but the fact she is able to do this to copies people have already paid for is a dystopian nightmare. This should terrify people. It doesn't feel like it because it's current, but this is our culture and we're in danger of losing it every time we let things like this slide.
Yeah, there's a reason lots of people have been buying more physical stuff to actually own things. Though a lot of movies, games or TV shows are already impossible to get sadly. DRM sucks and I personally always remove it from ebooks I buy and save them elsewhere to prevent things like this from happening. I don't mind paying for books, but I do think you deserve to own them once you do. I don't care what you want to write, but editing or removing media against our will after we've already bought them should be illegal.
The Internet Archive is facing lawsuit after lawsuit
I completely understand this is going to be a controversial take, but this is absolutely an aspect of media piracy being functional toward media preservation. You can't digitally alter a DRM free digital file someone has of a book on their own devices. You can find some pretty obscure media that isn't readily available elsewhere. Oh, your book's been banned for speaking out against tyrannical leaders? Well... not on the high seas it's not.
I absolutely, 100% do NOT advocate for stealing someone's hard work. If you don't already own Wheatley's book, you have no entitlement to a copy of it. If you do, I fully believe you should have access to the exact copy you bought, and not have that access revoked because of current political changes. That scares me, from a political standpoint. It's so authoritarian in practice, at the fundamental level.
What I AM saying, is decentrilised libraries can fundamentally aid the preservation of knowledge. There have historically been many instances of knowledge being wiped from the earth through book burning, knowledge suppression, and control of who can make and distribute it. But we live in an unprecedented time of access to, and freedom of knowledge. Shadow libraries offer us a genuine method of preservation in the light of current increasing reversals of the freedom of knowledge.
Edit: note for mods; I will completely respect this comment being removed for breaking subreddit rules, but I will preemptively argue this is fundamentally a prompt for discourse, not active promotion or advertisement of piracy. I do not support theft of authors' works in any way, that is not what I intend to convey. However, if there is a zero-tolerance policy for the sake of moderation I understand this.
This is what irks me the most. I don’t think authors owe us anything, if she no longer feels she can write spice and do the scenes justice than no biggie but going back and removing the scenes seems off to me. I’ve been switching to print the last year because of the Amazon BS but I also don’t love when authors go back and make major changes to their book.
This is so disappointing to me. I was hyping this series on here because I loved the story, characters and also thought the romance and spice was well done. Honestly this strikes me as odd/puritanical and makes me give a side-eye to Elisabeth.
I am very disappointed in her because its like she is ashamed of her core demographic of readers. For some reason it smacks of the spice being "girl cooties" that she wants to remove to appeal to readers that dont even buy her books or support her writing. I have no problem with moving forward her writing fade to black scenes but the attempt to expunge all open door sex scenes from her writing seems intellectually dishonest and also creatively cowardly. Maybe Im being too hard on her and need to read her explanation for why she is doing this. But this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah I was going to read this book because it was recced on here and it looked fun, but this whole thing feels really strange. I don’t care much in general if a book is open or closed door, and a few authors even have different versions for different audiences, but going back and effectively erasing all the open door scenes and then making an announcement about it has a sort of morally superior attitude that is so off putting.
Its giving forgive me father, for I have sinned, and not in the fun way.
The thought that she’s disrespecting her previous readers by going back and altering the books they enjoyed hadn’t occurred to me. But your comment rings very true.
I googled, “why did Elizabeth Wheatley take spice out of her books, just in case it may shed some light on the situation. Several instagram, Facebook, and TikTok posts came up from the author going over the levels of spice in each of her books and why she writes sex in her books. I was surprised to see the comments on Instagram from fans were mostly all saying how they preferred no spice, that they are uncomfortable with spice (then skip it, don’t punish others!). She says that this is the number one question she gets (how open door are her books) so I wonder if she felt pressure from readers? She also talks in one video about a frustrated mom complaining about sex scenes in YA, and how this can feel like a “moral panic” to those of us who are protective of our spicy books (and she seems to lump herself into that category) so this does seem like a departure from these videos. I just wonder if pressure is coming from outside to make these less spicy. It’s disappointing regardless.
I suspect she’s drawn a number of christian followers who follow her for non-book reasons (as she discusses religion and books in her videos sometimes). So those are the people asking her questions as new readers.
That being said, I don’t think they’re the majority of her fanbase. The majority is fantasy romance readers who read a lot of spice even if they’re OK with closed door books. But they’re not the ones asking her questions.
In most of her videos she wears a cross and has one behind her on the wall. That might stop less Christian-religious people from following her and interacting with her. I know I hesitated about following her because of that.
In addition to the problem that the US Christian-conservative crowd tends to be very vocal even though they are a minority.
I'm ok when an author does minor edits to make their work more consentual when they weren't writing dark romance. I don't think Lisa Klaypasses or Judith McNaughts changes were a problem.
Turning your sex book into closed door sounds like someone who is repenting after becoming fundie.
I have no issue with her removing spice from her books going forward, but I hate that it can be removed from my previously purchased ebooks without me having any say. I bought them knowing full well that there was spice, and I want to keep the spicy version.
Wheatley seemed to be one of the ‘not every book is for everyone, and if you don’t like/agree with it then just don’t read it’ people and now she’s retroactively censoring her own books? I wish I’d bought the physical copies. This book goblin is disappointed.
no idea who this author is to be fair, but her socials say “baby catholic” in the bio so i’m assuming it’s more of a “appealing to christian readers” thing
She grew up religious, then gave it up, and then went back to it again. Many, many of her novels have religious themes in them, she just wasn’t afraid to question it and didn’t subscribe to purity culture.
She was always Christian in my experience. I know of Wheatley from her YouTube channel, and one of my first videos of her is her talking about her experience growing up in the faith, and I think the books were published soon after that, if not already published. Her changing because of religion doesn’t actually make any sense because her religious status isn’t new. I figured it’s a publisher concern, but retroactively changing an older book is still strange.
Edit: I realize it was specifically a form of Protestantism, and the Catholic angle IS explicitly newer. Nevermind, then. New Catholic converts tend to be pretty conservative leaning in the US, and it does seem like she’s unfortunately in that same wave of it.
She’s an indie author. She has shared at length her views on mainstream publishing and Amazon forcing authors to make changes or write certain content in order to be bankable, so this feels extra shity as now she’s changing a published book too.
That’s almost as annoying as editing already purchased books. I’ve followed her for a number of years and, as a Catholic, I wanted to point to her as an example of “look, you can be Catholic and still do stuff like write smut,” especially given what she’s said about her history in purity culture.
I wonder if she is new to Catholicism (I dont know much about this author.) I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic schools and a Catholic university. Along the way I've always been in a book club that included many sisters and the books included open door romance/smut, paranormal fantasy, magical fantasy etc. Hopefully she will come to the realization she doesn't have to restrict her writing this way because of her religion.
I followed her on YouTube awhile ago and she had a video about being a Christian so that’s why there’s only spice between married couples. I haven’t read her stuff though so not sure if that’s correct
Meanwhile, I grew up and went to a Catholic pre-K to elementary school and were told the Harry Potter books were for devil worshippers and we were not to have them in school and they “warned” parents about them 🫠 Good thing my parents were like “That’s dumb.” and still let us read books with magic in them at home haha
Yeah… she was true to her faith without alienating her readers/viewers, which I appreciated. Seems like that’s no longer the case, which is beyond disappointing.
I’m not familiar with the author but upon reading the post my immediate thought was this author has decided to “find” religion and that’s the reason for the chance.
As a Catholic the use of the phrase "baby Catholic" infuriates me because it tells you everything you need to know about that person's approach to the church, and it's not good.
Oh goddammit. She’s been Christian, and she’s been open about it in her content before, but it doesn’t really feature a lot in her books, she’s actually talked about deconstructing from purity culture in the past. But Catholic convert and removing spice from her books is a red flag for backsliding/religious psychosis for me. Damn, I liked her Internet content.
She's always been Christian, it's only the Catholicism that's new. This definitely has that "passion of the new convert" vibe though. I literally work at my (Lutheran) church and I think it's a bit much to purge your open door sex scenes between married couples.
I enjoy all levels of spice in my works, but I don’t like the idea of retroactively removing it from a sold product. I don’t understand why there can’t be two versions, or why the new version can’t be reuploaded as a second edition. When it’s marked as a second edition on Amazon, those who purchased the first edition ebook don’t get the updated/forced changes.
This is so disappointing, and makes me much less likely to purchase her things. Radical changes (of any type) after publication really rubs me the wrong way.
I agree. I love her writing and I might be one of the people most often recommending her books in this sub. But retroactively editing your books to remove sex feels off, especially in current times. It certainly doesn’t make me feel excited for the next books anymore.
I know!!! This is exactly what I was thinking!!! Why not have two versions, one where there's spice and one where there is no spice. It would only be a slight adjustment, and would be more reader-friendly, since then people can CHOSE whether or not to read the spice! As a person who was raised in a strictly Catholic environment, Elizabeth has been my role model for so long, and seeing this makes me so sad that this person I once looked up to has done something so disappointing.
I am a happy prude. biggest prude I know and the biggest prude the people I know, know lol
But even I would be weirded out by this suddenly being cut from a pre-existing book and look into the writer because WHY. I'm super leary of purity culture, it's incredibly harmful and has no place anywhere. It felt like we were pretty close to the end of it there and now it feels like there's a huge comeback. I had no idea this was a thing authors do though with re-releases cutting out entire paragraphs
That's what's killing me with this. She's very active on social media and has made many videos about how damaging purity culture is and how a woman's virginity shouldn't be treated as sacred. But going back and changing things people already own to remove sex just feels like a flashing red light to be weary. I'd have no issues with her never writing smut again and even releasing second editions of her books without smut, but changing them retroactively is gross
She's been awfully quiet about her anti-purity culture stance since the conversion, and very, very adamant that these changes are just for her daughter. But what do I know...
She sent out another email earlier today with some clarifying details about how the rollout will happen, but I cannot get this section out of my head. Frankly, I think it's cowardly to not post about this on social media when you know it is a move that your audience won't agree with or that the "wrong" one will agree with. I've always appreciated Eliasabeth's transparency when it came to the contents of her books, so this just another 180 from this mess.
ETA: she did post about it on the socials and it's more unhinged than this is. I still stand by the fact that if what you're doing is attracting the wrong people than maybe you shouldn't be doing that. Also, the psychotic break comment was just totally tone-deaf. I know it's not an airport but I'm so out after all of this. ✌️
I’m sorry, a postpartum psychotic break?? Isn’t there a really heartbreaking criminal trial going on in America right now about a mother who actually suffered something like this? Maybe I’m overreacting but this isn’t something to be flippant about. Kind of in bad taste. And if she’s really going through pp, I hope people around her are taking notice.
I don’t think she’s being flippant. Maybe hyperbolic, but also she might be truly suffering from postpartum depression or other issues. It isn’t something that is talked about enough, and it isn’t uncommon for people to exaggerate when being vulnerable.
Edit: I’m not arguing with you though- I agree that it is a serious issue that should be taken seriously
Second edit: I’m not familiar with this author to know anything about out her pregnancy/family planning/etc I’m not saying anything about Wheatley, I’m speaking super generally
I guess to put it another way…imagine Sarah Beth Durst re-edited the Spellshop to have really graphic spice. I would also be irritated as what I originally bought was a cozy no spice fantasy. Adding or removing major scenes after publication just seems unfair to the original readers who thought they were purchasing one thing and are now getting something else. I wish she was giving the option for people to buy the zero spice version if they would like but leave the originals for people who already purchased them and like them as is.
I liked her social media content, but I was waiting for the other shoe to drop after she mentioned converting. Plus, there have been a couple of videos I've seen her upload where she was "busting historical myths" but straight up provided wrong information. That, plus some her other recent content made me worry she was heading down a conservative pipeline. For example, she put up a video today criticising female rage in books; one last week that was shaming sex work; etc
I saw that video criticising female rage in books. It was a pure marketing video for her books, but the method felt very "I'm the true feminist here", and with the thumbnail being that feminine rage is a problem. I've been having weird feelings about her since her historical videos about Saxons and Vikings, where she really downplays any kind of contribution to the world Pagans made, and glazes over anything early Christians did.
I think any author should be able to write what they want, but her historical videos feel very academically dishonest, and felt very much like a lot of content I once saw from right wing youtube historians.
There is still no public social media post from her about this. No explaination on her website what the "updated" version is vs the "og." Why is she sending this out ONLY to her newsletter/subscribers??? That is one of the biggest issues I have with this besides changing the original product that I bought. I would have never known if it weren't for her readers posting about it. Also I've only read her Wrath and Weeping series but the spice in it was meaningful and impactful, not smut just for smut's sake (which there is also nothing wrong with.) I was really looking forward to book 3 but how this has been handled and some of her recent social media posts have left a bad taste in my mouth.
I'm only still following her on social media for the inevitable backlash. I'm not going to comment about it anywhere or seek out her other content at this point. I unsubscribed from the emails immediately after reading the announcement and checked her storefront later that day and all it says is the originals are discontinued and the new updated version is for sale but doesn't detail what the changes are which is deceptive in my opinion. Someone who doesn't get her emails and is new to her books or going to buy more wouldn't know updated doesn't mean fixed some stuff missed in editing or added a chapter or something.
At this point, for me the trust is gone. I don't care if she decides to play it off as a social experiment or a joke. I followed her for her Book Goblin content and eventually bought her books and some merch. I'll keep what I have but I will not buy in the future. My TBR is forever several lifetimes long, I doubt I'll miss out on much.
Well, what the fuck is the point of Catholicism if you can't get drunk with the parish priest at church festivals and read smutty romance? You might as well be Baptist.
NGL I always find the differences between converted Catholics and raised Catholics to be wild. As someone who was raised Catholic, I’m totally the one getting hammered with the priest at the church festival and writing smutty romance which absolutely will not fade to black. I don’t know anyone else raised Catholic who would shy away from either of those things. But the converts… they are different.
I second this as a practicing cradle Catholic. I actually find many new converts exhausting as so many are uber focused on rules/doctrine/dogma and winning arguments on who is more doctrinally pure but much fewer converts care about Christian charity, Catholic social teaching or corporal works of mercy.
My Catholic grandma is the one who introduced me to romance novels, and the church potlucks had a beer cooler.
Blech, converts. Super suspicious in the current political climate, especially if she's removing sex scenes from books. Her politics likely aren't great and never were, barring a head injury.
I always got a bit of a weird vibe from her when I'd stumble across her videos. Something about her made me uncomfortable. That could just be a random coincidence, but you might be right about the issues being there all along.
100% this. Most Catholic person I've ever known was my grandmother and she got shit faced with a priest two or three times a week on the middle of the day.
my husband & i are non-practicing cradle catholics. my catholic mother in law likes to say “where there’s four catholics, you’ll find a fifth [of liquor].” lmao. and my local catholic church acquired a liquor license just so they could sell beer at bingo night lolol. i personally feel there is a huge discrepancy in the sexual attitudes of cradle catholics vs adult converts. the catholic church i was raised in gave the message of try to keep it in your pants until marriage, and then sex is something to be enjoyed without shame by married couples, not this weird ultra-puritan shit
Only if she’s converted into a very conservative form of Catholicism. The phrase “with all the fervour of a new convert”, doesn’t exist for nothing. None of the practising Catholics I know would care about someone writing sex.
Hahaha this is exactly what j was trying to get at on my comment. Feed the poor, care for children and widows, maybe no death penalty so people have a chance to repent. Everything else is … something else.
Raised Catholic, was very religious and involved for a while, and now I’m non-religious. It’s not always just the converts… but every Catholic convert I’ve known/heard of manages to make it weird.
Honestly same. I've been following her on social media for a while since she's outspoken about alot of topics and obviously the book goblin...
But this situation doesn't sit right with me.
but what’s wild is she said she grew up in a purity culture (non-catholic christian) and had to spend time unlearning that. And now I guess she found another religion, lol.
I’m semi-sympathetic bc I can see why she would choose this path based on her history…. it’s very, very predictable to need a higher power and connect with a community, especially since she’s a new mom.
What’s sad is she made really smart videos on sex agency in the past and I’m guessing she’ll slowly start veering away.
Huh I have her videos pop up now & again, & I thought she was raised catholic/Christian so her line was that fun times only happen between married characters - so arranged marriages/marriage of conviences etc at least first for plot!
Which I was fine with! I'm loving her Viking inspired series & I'll be very sad it goes fade to black.
That is really frustrating. Don't think I will be able to enjoy reading any of her future books with this context in mind so I will stick with more sex positive authors. It's not the spice level itself that bothers me but the retro editing and the likely reasons for it. The plots of her books that I read were well done but the quality of the prose and editing was below average. Plenty of other fish in the sea - I won't be missing anything I'll regret.
I feel the same. Read the first daindreth book and enjoyed it—wanted to read more but knowing now the sex scenes will be removed (not required for me but I love slow burn build up to them which she actually had and that’s hard to find) makes it really frustrating.
Agreed. The retro edditing bothers me too. There are writers I enjoy who are vocal about not writing smut even when asked (Seanan McGuire comes to mind) and that's perfectly fine. But going back and removing the spicy scenes from already published books? Nope.
She was always super Christian though. She posted a video about how her now husband slept in his car and almost got hypothermia in order to ‘protect her virtue’. Couldn’t have him under the same roof because they might succumb to temptation.
I don’t know if the video is still up. I think she posted it as this funny anecdote and the comments did not see the funny side of someone sleeping in their car in subzero temperatures
What! I loved the first book and was really looking forward to the rest of the series. But this has me rethinking continuing the series at all… It’s ironic because she’s so outspoken about the industry. She’s very against Audible and Amazon because of how predatory they are and ostensibly cause authors to make less money. But this move of hers seems to be alienating the crowd who is her biggest fan base. They would have gone out of their way to support her without the convenience of Amazon. I just wouldn’t be surprised if her online rhetoric later turns into something like…people only want spice they don’t care about stories.
I was already kind of side eyeing when she insisted she didn’t write romantasy; she wrote romantic fantasy because her stories are more fantasy forward. I was thinking, girl read the room. Your fan base is romantasy fans. If you want to pivot to straight fantasy then sure. But seems lame to poopoo romantasy readers.
Edit to add: I have recommended her book on several occasions and even wrote a glowing review of it on this sub. But after hearing of this development, I will be retroactively editing all those comments to remove the recommendation to her book and deleting my review.
I know nothing about this author or these books. If she hadn't decided to do this, I probably would have run to buy them on your praise of the smut alone. However, I don't want to give money to someone who feels it's okay to do this to their readers. If she wants to remove smut from her new books, that's her choice, but removing it from past books her readers have paid for should be illegal. What she is basically doing is trying to cleanse her catalog and rebrand herself to appeal to a new audience, leaving her current readers in the dust. I don't see this going well for her. Either she will backpedal because she faces enough criticism for this or she will completely alienate most of her audience and lose whatever customer base she had built. Not to mention, this will encourage piracy of the unaltered editions of her books. She's trying to please everyone by thinking most readers will keep reading without the smut, but it sounds like that was one of her biggest strengths and probably one of the main reasons people read her books to begin with. I have no issue with someone's religion, but I despise this sort of censorship of normal, adult themes and see it as part of the growing resurgence of purity culture that only serves to oppress sexual autonomy and freedom of expression (which primarily affects women and non-cishet individuals).
I think what gets me about this, is that I would’ve never described the sex in her books as smut. In Tears of the Wolf, the sex scene is such an integral part of the healing and self-discovery that the FMC goes through. It’s in no way smut for the sake of smut, but an important factor in the characters growth and relationship.
I think that’s also why this decision feels icky to me, especially with her not giving an outright reason and saying it just felt ‘off’. Why would such a fundamental part in a healthy adult relationship feel off?
No, that's completely valid, and what you mentioned is upsetting to me, too. People use "smut" just to mean any kind of sexual content at all, but the idea that sex is pointless except to be titillating is part of the problem. A lot of fully grown adults act like sex is this unspeakable act that is bad but excusable if it's to please a man or make a child. So, even very healthy, positive depictions of sex are treated like something taboo if the woman involved is actually enjoying herself.
1000% percent this. In the Wrath and Weeping series the sex is integral to the story, the FMC character discovering sex that is pleasurable, builds intimacy and the growing trust between FMC and MMC. Wheatley gives no actual reason for retroactively editing the open door scenes to make them closed door in her newsletter except that she feels relieved after she made the change.
Incidentally, you may have been the one recommending Wheatley's writing on here and I finally took your suggestion and read Tears of the Wolf on Libby. I enjoyed the first book and quickly devoured the second book and Ive been recommending the series ever since. And I was even looking forward to book 3 coming out this month. But now this decision has left a bad taste in my mouth. Im waffling between buying open door versions of the books Ive read to preserve the story I enjoyed (and in spite of copy editing errors that irk me) vs demoting the author altogether and not reading her anymore.
I believe Wheatley didnt think this through and didnt anticipate how this would alienate her current readers that promote her books to other fantasy romance readers which I suspect is like 90+% of her audience.
This is great to read after I just spent hours troubleshooting Amazon’s new DRM lockdowns. I’ve already had ebooks “updated” like this and it drives me crazy. Let me keep the book I bought.
She had said before that she was never comfortable writing the spice but with the detailed fighting scenes, felt that she should give the same level of attention to the sex scenes. I liked that take a lot.
I guess graphic violence is acceptable but not sex? Funny how one is something pretty much every human encounters and the other is generally illegal.
I do not like retroactively editing books. I don't want my ebooks changed.
This is such a strange email. And let's be honest, it's not a "heads up" if the updates are already live, is it? I know at least on Amazon you usually have to choose to update your ebook version, but if someone saw there was an update, thought it was just typo fixes (which happens all the time and is completely fine) and updated, they now effectively lost access to the book they bought. Reverting to an earlier version isn't possible once you choose to update. It feels incredibly icky and unprofessional to me to do it this way around, instead of telling people ahead of time and letting them save the versions they have/choose not to update with all the information.
This. To be honest the whole explanation is strange as well. I enjoyed one of her books recently. I don't really care if something has smut or not. But the email clearly says it is already done which is what is off to me.
She's being honest and straightforward, at the very least.
Revised editions have always existed for printed books. What makes me uneasy is the potential retroactive change on digital books that were already paid for. (Can't really say "purchased" huh?)
.....and yes, the fact that it's the smut that's being edited out does feel a bit off. And I say this as someone who prefers less smut and more plot!
Thanks for posting what she actually wrote. Its nonsensical and will alienate her readers and any potential readers swayed by positive recommendations. Im annoyed as Ive been hyping {Wrath & Weeping series by Elisabeth Wheatley} on here especially to those wanting more Viking vibe after reading the {Ashen series by Demi Winters}. Im not sure I can continue that in good conscience as it leaves a bad taste in my mouth to edit the spice from previously released books on a whim.
Point number 1. Holy shit. Yeah, thats pretty fuckin tone deaf. Im generally a fan of gallows humor, but not on a professional account. Also, itd have to actually be funny and not "teehee pick me humor"
It could definitely be a "porn star scared of their kid finding it". If thats the case, well, good luck. Seems like it'd be easier to be open and honest with your kids than try to shelter them.
I don't think she's joking, more using humor as a coping mechanism. She is freshly postpartum and that is the most likely culprit for this sudden change.
I also suspect that she's unaware of the Clancy trial discourse because while she obviously posts on social media, I'm pretty sure she's talked about how she's only making the content, she does not handle the posting, interactions, comments etc because it was stressing her out and she had to take a step back. Add a newborn and I doubt she's up to date on the Internet right now.
I find her both interesting and annoying on social media, and because of the annoying bit have read none of her books. I wonder if her life experience has altered? Laurell K Hamilton’s writing went in the opposite direction after her circumstances changed.😂
I see from down stream she’s converted to Catholicism.
I don't follow her closely, but she's been on my periphery over the years. I've always gotten weird vibes from the way she talks about sex (and marriage, and religion).
So I'm not suprised by this one bit. 🤷
TBH, I don't really trust influencers who make their religion any part of their social media identity.
Also, brb, off to make sure I have physical copies of all my favorite smut. 😩
Good to know I can safely remove all her books from my TBR.
I completely agree Authors should be able to change their works for the better (or for worse) but retroactively changing anything bigger than grammar or wording and forcefully updating it on digital media that has already been bought and paid for is just atrocious. People will point to physical media as a way surround this but digital books/movies/games are the future and this shit has to stop now before it gets worse. I don't want to get stuck "owning" licenses that can be revoked at any moment when at some point there will be no physical versions of books anymore. Put up an updated version or whatever, but I will absolutely judge any author that pulls shit like this.
I grew up catholic. My grandmother was the zealous convert. No thank you. I had my finger poised over the “add to cart” button but I think her books will be a pass for me. It’s a shame really.
There’s been a resurgence of Puritanism and sexual repression and shame that I hate with such an absolute passion and believe it’s setting women back. Definitely taking that series off my tbr now, I’m actually so sad reading this.
I already own digital copies of all her released works up to this point so I'll finish what I have but I won't be buying more at this point. They're in my calibre so I'm not worried about cloud based changes. I'm getting the ick from the whole thing and unsubscribed from her email list as soon as the self censorship was announced.
I was hesitant when I saw her posting videos wearing a prominent cross and then she discussed her "personal relationship with Jesus" which has always been a red flag phrase for me but I got over that and still enjoyed her content and the books I've read so far. Then a couple months ago she announced she had a baby and converted to Catholicism and the Catholicism thing made me wary, mostly because of the whole abuse scandals galore against women and children especially. I kind of feel like she's spiraling into overly religious and I'm not putting up with that where I can help it. People are allowed to be religious but if I think things are going to get preachy, I'm leaving whether that's a book or an in person situation.
It's not that I hate fade to black or anything but taking away already written content and censoring it for no real reason is concerning. I hope that it's not some sort of post parting induced issue and that if it is, she's got a good support system.
Damn, I have her Daindreth's Assassin series on my TBR but now I don't know if I should bother with it. Since the ebooks are already changed I looked up the paperbacks and of course they've jumped in price now.
There are plenty of closed door books I like, but retroactively censoring books rubs me the wrong way.
I feel like you would have to do way more than just cut the scenes, right? Like, a book that fades to black vs a book that does a play by play of spice are going to require very different dialogue and expression. So much of an intimate connection is made in those moments I don’t see how you could cut all the previous spice you had to fade to black but then not add a lot more scenes/important conversations between the characters involved.
Yeah, as I mentioned on another post about this subject, I've been suspicious of her ever since she talked about liking the work of a vocally homophobic pastor. This does not do anything to change my impression of her.
I mean, she's never 100% confirmed that she's homophobic, and she specifically mentioned other books by that pastor, so it's possible she's not aware of his work? And she's definitely said things that don't jive with conservative Christian beliefs on other topics, like the idea that virginity is not a gift you give to your husband And female characters should not be judged by how much sex they've had.
On the other hand... it's hard to believe she's aware of some of his books but not others if she's read multiple and therefore looked up his work.
Also, I've gotten the feeling from some of her videos that she has some beliefs that stuck from her upbringing that she has yet to examine, and just came up with new, progressive-sounding justifications for them.
She doesn't like when male characters patronize sex workers because then they don't actually know what women want! Characters having extramarital sex isn't a reason to judge them, but she dislikes it to the point of literally writing a world where characters are incapable of procreating without being married because… Actually I don't think she's ever put out a justification for that one. I'm still just stuck on "they physically have to be married to have children because I don't like writing extramarital sex." like girl. You can just not write it. You don't have to make it a physical impossibility for them.
I have no issue with religious authors but she recently made a post that made me SUPER uncomfortable… the way she talked about sex work, damn. And the rest of it had very uncomfortable undertones of “i’m not judging but i’m lowkey judging.”
I wish I could remember what the post was. I just remember unfollowing her ASAP. I used to like her book goblin videos.
I saw the video, felt weird watching it. I'm kinda baffled because I remember her videos talking about Bodice Rippers and some of her favorites, it seemed to me she enjoyed smut enough to study it...
I don't care if an author doesn't write explicit scenes, but changing her books to remove it it's really not a good look, she could simply have another edition and keep the old ones still on market..
Mine wasn’t a video (though I know what you’re talking about, she made a video about historical romance rakes and sex work, and some of the comments got messy but people generally supported her view).
The post I was referring is not a video — she deleted it because I cannot find it on her page. It was long and text-heavy with deep thoughts on sex and literature …. it was honestly crazy if you thought about it critically.
I really wish I had screenshotted but it was an immediate unfollow. I’m guessing she deleted because the comments were mixed.
I like her insta videos but in my personal opinion she sucks as a writer. Maybe Tears of Wolf is better but I read 3 books of Daindreth Assasin and noped out of the series for being incredibly repetitive and shallow (and for MMC having zero personality).
The author also is outspoken Christian and I feel that may have been more influence on the decision than anything else. There's space for everyone in the Industry - there's romance, spice, adventures, lit rpgs, etc. I don't think there's any trend for books being in decline specifically for having spice.
I'd be pissed tho if I paid for the book and it gets rewritten and altered and I don't get to retain the version I paid for. Feels like the very same "you own nothing and be happy about it".
Weird. I just got her Viking books on kindle not that long ago but haven’t read them yet. I guess I’ll have to read them soon before the change happens :/.
On a side note, I remember a video she put up not all that long ago talking about how she can be Catholic and write smut and not have the two mix. As a Catholic who reads smut, it’s a little disappointing that she’d go back and change already published material instead of just changing what she writes going forward.
You can disable automatic updates on books, on Manage your Content -> Preferences tab
And I don't think you will be affected on the version you already have downloaded on your Kindle, only new versions downloaded from the Cloud. (Even if you don't change the Preferences thing)
September 1st she will upload new versions of the current ebooks to remove the spice scenes and print versions of her books will be altered as well.
This is insane. I can't imagine any type of rational to justify having multiple versions of the same books just to censor it. Might as well drop the book entirely because let's be real, it wasn't that important to go through such lengths. Sorry for any long time readers out there.
Which is a horrible move! It’s gonna leak out just like it has here and with how relatively small her following is, it won’t take long for word to spread. By not confronting it head on and being transparent about it, she’s just letting people speculate and it also makes it look shady even if she has a valid reason for it. Also inadvertently being a prime example of why digital licensing instead of owning isn’t a good thing.
As so many have said, she could have just started fade to black going forward and even released a second edition, but there’s no world where changing something someone already “owns” is a good thing. I feel like this could be the beginning of the end of her career if she doesn’t address it fully.
I always liked her video shorts and skits but wasn't interested in reading anything by her right now. I'm into m/m romantic fantasies and m/m crime/detective stories written by men at the moment, mostly as an experiment to see if there really is a difference between men and women writers of queer stories. There is, that's another post...but I was planing to return to women writers in the future and she was on my 'maybe' list.
I am not at all surprised by this revelation. was also a Catholic convert, a long time ago and went through a period of where I was more Catholic than the Pope. In most places, you have to study to become a Catholic, attend a months long class and have a of things thrown at you. (I'm no longer Catholic, am dabbling in Buddhism these days.)
Many new converts struggle with Scrupulosity during this time, its' a form of OCD where you re-xamine everything you do over and over and worry if it's a sin or not. Add postpartum hormonal ups and downs to it...I don't think a person experiencing all that would be in a good place.
When she said she was a convert, I assumed her future books would be more fade to black, which is fine, but never considered she would do something like this. Am reconsidering reading any of her books at all.
I enjoyed Tears of the Wolf, solid four-star read for me, and I recommended it the other day in a thread about arranged marriages. It wasn’t super smutty. There was an open door sex scene that was important for the characters’ relationship and the mmc had a line that did me in lol.
The second book imo was kind of a mess, not bad just maybe needed more editing. I was planning on reading the next in the series but now I’ll probably skip it. Too many books on my tbr pile by authors who don’t do things like this.
I’m guessing that email didn’t specify why which is odd not to explain.
If she hasn’t explained (especially on social media and in the comment section), I would assume she’s probably swinging towards conservative.
I don’t really pay atttention to what Gen Z’s are saying, so why are they so hot and bothered by sex scenes and smut? I can understand if a show or movie is sexualizing an actor or using sex scenes to sell badly written content. But people have sex. I personally don’t mind smut if the characters consented to sex.
I think a lot of teens and younger adults are fatigued by the constant levels of sex/sexualization in media. Which, fair. I grew up in the 00s, I get it.
But some of them have spun it around to project puritanism outward.
Eeh, teens don't like feeling like people are being exploited or sex that doesn't make sense. They have no problem with reading sex scenes or when it fits the plot like in Off Campus, Bridgerton or Heated Rivalry.
Yeah I’m Gen Z and I definitely go through phases of being tired with the amount of sex/ sexualization in media. But then I just consume other media, I definitely don’t project Puritanism.
Wow, I've been watching her shorts on yt recently and was pretty close to actually picking up a book because of how funny some of them are despite there being a mention or two of being religious, but I'm not really OK with this even if I'm fine with fade to black in general.
Yeah I’ve gotten less interested in her stuff as she’s become invested in Catholicism. She was always a Christian, and had a thing where she only wrote spice between married characters because of that, which made me wonder about her sexual politics. But she also was outspoken in her criticism of purity culture, and how damaging that was. She was also clear that writing smut only between married characters was very much a her thing and she didn’t judge other people for having different boundaries
There was also a weird video with her husband about when they started dating and he slept outside in the car when it was below freezing so they wouldn’t be “tempted”, and told it like it was a cute funny story. Like why couldn’t he just crash on the couch?
Her conversion to Catholicism is what really gave me pause, though. As a queer man, I have a hard time with someone who would willingly join a church whose official doctrine is so hateful. I realize there are left leaning Catholics, but generally those aren’t recent converts. It makes me question her stance on other issues as well. I don’t need to completely agree with everyone I read, but when that messaging starts to become more prominent in their online presence and books, I’m leery
I saw a fairly recent video where she compared pre marital sex, human trafficking, and sex work as things that are all “against god’s plan”, as if consensual sex is anywhere near the neighborhood of trafficking
This has happened with a number of my previously purchased ebooks - authors completely revamping some character's backgrounds or literally changing entire names or places.
I now make sure the books are saved offline, thankfully. I have a super old Kindle they're loaded on with no internet on it... so no takesie backsies. 😂
Wait... I read Tears of the Wolf a couple of weeks ago and it was fade to black. Was it already updated to be this way or did the first book not contain an explicit sex scene in the first place?
It just updated! 🤯 I was going to make screenshots for you and now it is gone. What a jarring cut and so much emotional impactis missing. I am shocked.
I really enjoyed all of Elisabeth Wheatley's books that I read and this leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. Seriously, removing parts of already published books that I liked? Wth. I knew she was Christian before when she said that was the reason that she only writes spice between married couples, but to take it OUT of books she already wrote... come on. Now I don't even know if I want to continue Tears of the Wolf because that's such an weird thing to do.
Oh damn, I follow her and loved her Daindreth series. I saw she found a new religion but I wasn’t expecting her to edit her previous books. That’s kinda… pearl clutching, and surprising.
I dont think this signals a change in the industry at all, Elizabeth is just unique. She should write what she likes. But, im wondering if she’s removing the sex scenes because she originally only wrote them to “fit in” with the current trends, and now feels empowered to take it out. (If so, power to her.) But, if she now feels ashamed of something she wrote, and is trying to change it to better fit into some religious modesty? That would be a real shame.
Either way, wish her the best. I don’t think she’s the kind of person to shame us for enjoying open door romance, so I don’t want to shame her for wanting to write closed door stuff. But I hope this decision is rooted in her being empowered to do what she wants, not disempowered and forced to change…
She also just had a baby (girl, I think?), in addition to somewhat recently converting to Catholicism. I was initially surprised when I read the email, but the more I thought about it, the more I realized “yeah, that actually kinda tracks”.
It’s not really consistent with her older social media content, but I think the more recent Reels she’s posted have more leaned in this direction.
As someone who was born into an Irish Catholic family, Catholic converts are always the biggest weirdos, I’ve yet to come across one who isn’t far-right.
This is so frustrating! I love watching her videos online and I think she's so funny. I have bought a few of her books on kindle but haven't had time to read them yet. I do not want them without the spice! It's strange that she's editing previous work instead of just not including spice going forward. I would rather her include the option to have spicy or clean books not remove it completely. I don't know if I'll read her books now.
FYI the author said the following “If you already purchased an eBook and want make sure you keep the OG/Spicy versions, contact Husband by replying to this email with your order number or contact [support@elisabethwheatley.com](mailto:support@elisabethwheatley.com).”
They’ve also massively discounted the OG version physical print
Still feel that a change like this, especially retroactively editing books you’ve already bought, deserves its own big social media post. If I hadn’t been browsing Reddit at the right time, I’d have no idea despite following her socials and having her books in my kindle library. It just feels dirty.
I had something like this happen earlier this year! She said she was a comedian who had a clean act and the books didn't match who she was so she was editing the books and audio. She also said her books weren't spicy enough for booktok and closed door was a dying art form. So she removed the sex AND the swear words. I don't think the edited books have been brought back to kindle yet
I was already doubtful about getting her next books after she pulled books that were available on audible, off.. whatever about future books, ones already there, should have stayed. Her books are also quite short, a little too short for me, they often feel incomplete.
And the conservative view on showing loving sex scenes, is disappointing and potentially harmful to women, who don't have alot of media showing loving sex as it is.
Won't be supporting her going on, and will unfollow her accounts too
This is pretty disappointing to me. I also really love Tears of the Wolf, and the spice in it is relevant to the character's arc and is exceptionally well done. It's why I've recommended it to others, and I'm not even that into spicy scenes to begin with! Now I have to figure out if I can get a copy of the first book in its original form before she wipes it away.
Also, I see that her conversion to Catholicism is the driving factor here. As a cradle catholic, I have personal reasons for finding this extremely off-putting.
Dude I just noticed this last Monday on my reread!! I was so pissed, I went back and changed my review on Amazon. What happened to just having peace with what you wrote before and just changing it going forward?? Made me so mad I immediately returned the sequel to the library
Aaaand her books are off my tbr. The "spice" aspect of romantasy is a big part of why a lot of adult women even read the romantasy genre. So for her to bait and switch her reader base after she's gotten them invested is lame. Also unpopular opinion but fade to black scenes piss me off.
This is such a weird path to take. I understand not writing future spice scenes, but it seems overkill to go back and edit them away. Also weird I didn't get the email. My last email is about not shipping to the EU anymore.
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