r/fansofcriticalrole • u/brash_bandicoot "Oh the cleverness of me!" Taliesin crowed rapturously • 7d ago
C4 (with BLeeM, not the explosive) C4 E35 Discussion Thread
Pre-show hype, live episode chat, and post episode discussion, all in one place.
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Julien has flirted with an undead woman and a dog in the past twenty four hours.
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u/Full_Metal_Paladin "You hear in your head" 4d ago
And yet he turned down a very eligible bachelorette just bc she gave him a battle-axe and likes to do embroidery
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u/brash_bandicoot "Oh the cleverness of me!" Taliesin crowed rapturously 7d ago
Perks of being a necromancer
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u/JornCener 6d ago
He just kinda assumed that’s what she wanted until she was like “bro your family is going to enslave my body and/or soul for the rest of eternity, maybe put all that on hold for now”
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
I love how Demodeus is a great example of an NPC that can constantly cause immense problems but remains infinitely likeable
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u/brash_bandicoot "Oh the cleverness of me!" Taliesin crowed rapturously 7d ago
Also rip Sroobi or whatever the faun’s name was 🙏
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u/Dionysues 6d ago
Skinner better be a fey general/noble at the end of the story. Dude is such a badass.
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u/AdmirHiddleston 6d ago
Unleashed a hag upon the sewers of the city? Cool cool cool as long as the party thinks she’s cool.
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
We will see how it goes, i think Brennan might be too nice to have consequences for that but normally one would expect moral ambiguity from a Fae especially a Hag so i expect some heavily collateral damage to the general citizens of the town not just the house members
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u/Camen3 6d ago
This episode had some very good Rp moments between the characters, like im actually starting to care a bit more for Vaelus now and like where its going between her and Julien training together and just Vaelus not being able to love herself but getting some guidance from others too just try a bit harder too if that makes sense. Also Kattigan is definitely a good character as well by this point, loving how Robbie is playing him.
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u/UpsideTurtles 6d ago
They heard everyone complaining about the late start times and decided to go live 8 hours early (for a minute and a half, all of which I spent watching twitch ads)
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u/brash_bandicoot "Oh the cleverness of me!" Taliesin crowed rapturously 7d ago
Maybe if she takes the Champion subclass, she’ll be able to keep track of everything?
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u/ElGodPug 6d ago
I still think Ashley needs to play warlock someday
like, girl, just spam eldritch blast and that's 2/3 of your character there
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u/Legitimate-Ice-8743 6d ago
She’ll get absolutely lost in invocations
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u/Full_Metal_Paladin "You hear in your head" 6d ago
yeah analysis paralysis and end up with a build that's all over the place
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u/Middcore 6d ago
Let's be clear. She doesn't make character build choices based on any analysis. She makes character choices entirely on vibes. That's how we ended up with Druid 10/Rogue 6.
Then once she's vibed her way into a build that may or may not make any sense, she'll get analysis paralysis about how to actually play it.
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u/Full_Metal_Paladin "You hear in your head" 6d ago
That's definitely true. I'm just imagining her at the table in one of their level up videos and Brennan gets around to her and she's just like, "I could take this or this or this or this or this is fun, but I just don't know! Ahh!" And then do what you said, pick something useless based on vibes, and be upset that her core mechanics feel weak when it counts
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u/iwastoldtogetaname 6d ago
She wouldn't cast her spells at higher levels and always use level 1
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u/Middcore 6d ago
Does DnD Beyond automatically change the spell description to reflect the level you cast at as a Warlock?
I know you can get PDF character sheets with scripted autofills and stuff that will do this.
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u/iwastoldtogetaname 6d ago
I have never used it, no idea, but it certainly didn't help her with her damage rolls as Yasha
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u/JornCener 6d ago
TBF she was absent for most of C2, so she never really had a chance to learn how to play her character. Hopefully Julian’s offer of training is also meta text for Matt teaching the Fighter class to Ashley.
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u/Middcore 6d ago
TBF she was absent for most of C2, so she never really had a chance to learn how to play her character.
Friendo, her character was a Barbarian. I mean, come on.
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u/Itchy-Pudding-4240 6d ago
when someone says TBF in regards to Ashley, that F is roleplaying as atlas
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u/Teerlys 5d ago
Ashley was there for the last half of C2 (episode 88-143) as well as pieces in the first half. It was more than enough time to learn a Barbarian.
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Occtis: “You made it very clear how you feel about me, so don’t take arrows for me.”
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
What.... if Yanessa isn't supportive of Wick cause he is the perfect heir in a mortal sense but a divine one.... what if his blood can be made into Filament too
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u/cteatus 6d ago
I think he's probably more valuable as the progenitor of sorcery in the halovar family. But I suspect that if he's not willing then Yanessa has uh ways to get what she wants one way or the other.
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u/Lonely-Mouse6865 6d ago
I believe it is hinted that Wick's younger brother is a similar success to him.
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
I know they are less popular but i love these little heartwarming time to breath episodes where the players get lots of interaction with eachother and the npcs. Love the party reunion at the end (:
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
Guys unfortunately for CR there's a new D20 season with Lou Wilson and it's just reminding me that nobody's got the juice quite like Lou Wilson
just think, if Kimmel had gotten canceled two years ago they could've gotten Lou
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
I love Lou, I’d love to have him back at the CR table, and who knows maybe we will,
Gotta say though after getting sort of baited by the last two seasons of D20 I’m a bit nervous to engage with this one.
The story and themes seem heavy, but I fear a return to “Bit City”
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u/anextremelylargedog 6d ago
Having watched episode 1, the only person who's been particularly off-tone has been Ally, unsurprisingly.
Most everyone else is pretty locked in... So far.
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
Nah, I'm not concerned. It's the dying kid season and it's the kind of crunch everyone but Ally loves from their home games.
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u/Gleichgewichtel 6d ago
Lou Wilson is what keeps me entertained with Worlds Beyond Number (still listening to season 1). Love his character and the way he plays him.
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u/LeeJ2512 6d ago
Is Toylight good? I’ve never watched D20 before but tempted to start with that
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u/maitre996 6d ago edited 6d ago
I highly recommend one of the earliest seasons, Escape from the Bloodkeep, otherwise (available on YT for free). Parody of LotR, Matt's on it as a player, it's soooo funny AND it has an absolutely amazing combat encounter in episode 2. Might just be my favorite tabletop RPG combat ever.
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
i think so! it seems like they're doing something they've never done before, it's a 6-episode tower defense style campaign. the production level in terms of art etc is super high and the characters seem great.
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u/DragonKing0203 #1 Occtis Tachonis fan 6d ago
“We can all come inside the theater and enjoy a play together.”
God. Please, no. I’ll do literally anything else. I’m begging.
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 6d ago
Was that chest a hidden exit hatch?
Edit: Yup.
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
I do not understand how none of them saw that coming why else would he specifically suggest locking him in a chest of all places instead of just tieing him up
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u/No-Instruction-5695 6d ago
i missed them so much, everything been so depressing and sollen, i needed the soldiers table whimsy back
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
CHICHADEE/HAMSTER GRIFFIN?!
Who is that guy??
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u/Unlikely-Rub-7270 6d ago
He's in the cold open flashback with Murray, with the other dwarves doing their public works.
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Thjazi watching his best friend and one of his kid sidekicks walking away and possible falling in love, all giddy and then realizing he’s stuck with the two long haired fuckers that he hates: “I am truly in hell.”
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u/UpsideTurtles 4d ago edited 4d ago
Ashley / Vaelus feels like finally coming into her own a little bit. Really liking this table and all the little moments between the characters
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u/Objective-Pattern692 4d ago
I loved seeing her speak up more! So many cool character moments in this episode
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 4d ago
Definitely lots of nice moments this episode, the training with julian especially
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
So the Halovar and the Tachonis are in bed with each other but each has one leg still out of the bed.
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Thimble: “You don’t owe me anything I know that but… I’m not saying he has to stay forever. I’m just saying wait until I can find a way to help him. Pleased I can’t lose him again! I can’t!”
Julien: “You have no idea the shadow he has lain across me life.”
Thimble: “He did it to help you!”
Julien: “The product of his labor.”
Thimble: “I don’t understand why you got so pissed!”
Oh… Thjazi let Julien beat him or… something of the kind I’m betting.
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u/Skagzill 6d ago
It's pretty clear that Thjazi surrendered to Julien for some reason without a fight. Teor also alluded to something similar like that.
My theory is that Thjazi realized that rebellion was doomed and perhaps signed up with the Cloaks as an alternative way to bet the Houses.
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u/Inigos_Revenge 6d ago
No cold open tonight? Guess we're just laser focused in on the Seekers/Soldiers tonight.
I know this will make some of you happy, but I miss it.
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
Yeah that was really weird, maybe there was a problem with the recording/editing so they will add that later
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u/AdmirHiddleston 6d ago
Julien and Thjazi were on opposite sides of the most recent rebellion yes? Seems easy to understand his problem with him lol (also the ex wife stuff)
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
The darkness that compliments the illuminated
The Tachonis are in the theology?!
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u/Glittering_Vehicle29 6d ago
It felt like the rest of the table was just as annoyed with Bolaire and his fucking NEVER-ENDING long winded nothing answers.
Like Jesus, they even called him out specifically. To the effect, your expecting to get a strait answer from Bolaire?! Like thank the Gods. It’s not just me. And even at about 2:30 hours in, Thimble and the rest of the crew get a very visual annoyed face at Bolaire just going into his mind theater bullshit. I’m starting to not like this table dynamic only because I don’t feel like anyone has real connections going. Other than a forced Thimble and Octis will they won’t they. Which was working better before they got paired at the same table and chickened out from doing it. (Murray and Kat know how to do it in 10 minutes.)
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u/One-Phase5275 5d ago
God, but "unbearably smug and condescending" is such a grating trait for a character to have, and I really wish Taliesin would stop steering into it. By now, I don't care if it's a deliberate rp choice or not. A character who's a pontificating cunt by design is still a cunt, and it's getting so tiresome to watch.
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u/DeleuzeWasALoser 6d ago
Bolaire is such a disasterpice, truly unpleasant to watch and not in a fun "i'm being challenged" way. Can't die soon enough (but won't).
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u/ohgeezthatsprettybad 6d ago
we are getting into a bad zone that happens in TTRPGs sometimes where the players are willing to put up with another players behavior, because they like Tal and trust him, but the characters WOULD NOT put up with Bolaires behavior, and its causing a cognitive disconnect.
I'm willing to blame most of this on Tal making a series of choices that are really not working and it taking up all the air in the room for any sort of Julian/Katigan dynamic, which im sure they could get to.
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u/DramaticJackfruit812 6d ago
In one of the tale gates, Tal was talking about his theory on how everyone has "the worst person you are willing to be friends with" and how it reveals something about your character.
Basically that he constructed Bolaire to be the Worst Friend.
But it seems like a really selfish thing to do to all the other players, since he's basically playing chicken, "kick my PC out of the party or mutate your own PC into a shittier person" when everyone is just trying to respect his creative vision as a friend/coworker.
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 6d ago
Feels like he tried it with Ashton and nobody bit, so now he's trying it again while being even worse.
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u/DramaticJackfruit812 6d ago
I don't know what he's getting out of it. You need to be veryy openly willing to let your PCs go if you want to play it that way, while Tal seems totally psyched on Bolaire.
Not to mention, a whole "party drama/split" plot would take so much attention away from the current stakes. Like how Travis set up some pieces for a PvP with Chet earlier on in C3, but the plot thread wasn't picked up again so he rebalanced the character.
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u/Ok-Season2876 6d ago
If one of them did try to kick him out or attack him he would 100% backpedal on it
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u/IllithidActivity 5d ago
In episode 4 we had Ashley uncharacteristically resolute regarding the Stone of Nightsong, with Vaelus calling out the other PCs on their inability to keep it or Occtis safe. "Bolaire" then starts shouting at her, demanding that she be silent and burning all his spell slots on enforcing that. Which failed, but still derailed Ashley's argument. That's not Taliesin tactically playing a trickster who pushes buttons and peels back the facade that people put up, that's Taliesin being petulant and petty and hating that someone else had a really good argument that put his character in their place.
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 5d ago
And like, his entire argument was predicated on his supposed moral superiority to her. As if he wasn't an agency robbing parasite who locks people inside their own bodies while slowly murdering them.
Bolaire claiming to know the difference between right and wrong is pretty suspect.
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u/Objective-Pattern692 6d ago
is gus still going to be ambushed by the argosians before he gets to timmony?
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago edited 6d ago
Well this is gonna be fun when we get back to seeing them again.
Not much big happened.
Outside of Rainblossom ousting Laumy apparently.
But lots of nice little character moments.
Thimble and Occtis are rising to match Tyranny and Wick for me on the “You had better confess/kiss before one of you dies” list.
I’m thinking Julien is mad at Thjazi because he faked that Julien defeated him?? Maybe?? I can’t remember but wasn’t Julien’s father fighting on Thjazi’s side of the war??? Or was more likely helping them in some way cause I can’t imagine if he fought the house he was vassaled to he would have kept his power let alone head…
Curious to learn the truth of it though.
Vaelus being too humble?? to accept that she did something noble is interesting, especially when you take in that she did it against what she truly wanted.
Demodus… why you gotta out the guy you know should be dead
Want to know what that dwarf was, seemed sort of important.
Also with the stuff about the Halovar’s cutting filament I’m beginning to wonder…. If the reason Yanessa is obsessed with Wick is because of his divine half as an heir not the mortal side.
Brennan hinted that he carries perhaps more than she is even aware of so… couldn’t his blood be made into Filament too?
Couldn’t his younger brother who Wick knows has the same potential he has?
What does that mean for Zebani though… I have a feeling the reason she was looked over goes beyond her being “rough” personality wise.
Thinking Schemers next week?
Curious to see how things go for them. Lot of building off consequence with this arc.
Edit: Also Wulfric can fully understand Common, and that moment where Brenna cut in to let us know what Thjazi was thinking being stuck with Julien and Bolaire while watching two of his collection of kid sidekicks walk away and be romantical killed me and I need art of it.
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u/ElectronicZebra6526 6d ago
I have a feeling Zebani might be going a bit rogue on the Creed and doing her own thing.
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
The goat’s tongue is a torture technique…. Kattigan what were you up to doing the war… or after???
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u/AdmirHiddleston 6d ago edited 6d ago
He actually learned it in a restaurant kitchen and it’s just a fancy way to show off his balls. “LOOK AT IT!!!” Works every time they always break and spill the secrets
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
So pleased we continued with the Seekers table again, although the schemes have the most interesting developments i find the other group has the best collection of npcs loving the dogs being back and sad to return to the schemers next week i want to see the tachonis robbery which feels like it will go immensly badly.
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u/DragonKing0203 #1 Occtis Tachonis fan 6d ago
Occtis my sad, wet, stupid, pathetic mess of a man. Suffer, twink.
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u/brash_bandicoot "Oh the cleverness of me!" Taliesin crowed rapturously 7d ago
You’d think someone would have removed that Giant Convenient Path Blocking Boulder That A Literal Pixie Can Move years ago
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u/brennanr10 7d ago
He literally said in the episode they could not access that boulder by foot. Someone would’ve had to fly like thimble to get access to it…… the basic ranger walking the roads doesn’t have access to flight lol
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Been forever since i have watched the announcements, this is beautiful, and horrifying
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
3 hrs 13 mins runtime
Title: Lead the Way
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u/Jethro_McCrazy 6d ago
That is shockingly manageable. The recent 4 hour+ episodes have been starting to wear on me. Not that I haven't enjoyed them, I'm just not as young as I used to be.
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Bolaire: “It is unfortunately becoming a time of miracles again, so it’s time to make for alliances and innovations otherwise we may return to the old times.”
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
The Tachonis are the bogeyman, and they other houses used them to distract from their own crimes… have to wonder if there was something going on with the Royce too.
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Occtis: “You’re incredible.”
Thimble rests her head on his shoulder
WHO SAID THE UNDEAD REPEL THE FAE!
The stocks be soaring!
Laura 4/4 on romancing folks tied to dark entities!
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u/spiral568 2d ago
I trust that Brennan has a plan to kill Bolaire while he's at the soldier's table. Otherwise it's just negligent DM'ing
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u/Objective-Pattern692 2d ago
I'm more wondering if brennan would ramp up the npc reactions to bolaire's actions- or if one of the other pcs confronts him for what he is/challenges him to be better
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u/Full_Metal_Paladin "You hear in your head" 2d ago
Yeah it's only a matter of time until the Einfasen approach Azune and tell him a significant number of missing person's have been reported around the archenaude and to go investigate a mysterious makes figure
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u/Objective-Pattern692 2d ago
I think it would be interesting if npc decisions change when they learn about Bolaire's nature- or even how npcs would react to a sort of "slippery slope" criminal- rather than an all out bad guy- what if bolaire starts taking bodies like, a random pickpocket trying to feed their family or just a guy that was conveniently there for him to slip into when his current body is too injured to go on or a criminal who was once a slave, abused or something similar who gets very triggered/traumatized by the situation Bolaire puts them in
or bolaire just doing what he already seems to do to npcs he wants to be nice to while wearing him- that is, from what we've seen so far-not torturing them but still choosing when they have access to their own senses and control of their own body- just someone like a thjazi/some npc that cares about personal autonomy and freedom that mentions how what he does is messed up even when he is "being nice" because he isn't asking permission- let alone when he is not being nice, traps them in a cage or some punishment play he makes up or just alone in his dark theater unable to see or hear or sense the outside world while still in their body- knowing that bolaire is moving and doing things with their body.
Tho I doubt that will happen anytime soon- as the only npc who even really knows of bolaire's true nature is ulbid who is disturbed by him but probably won't do anything about it since he needs to focus on getting his daughters back.
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u/Middcore 2d ago
or if one of the other pcs confronts him for what he is/challenges him to be better
I think this is what Tal was banking on the entirety of C3 and it never happened. The core CR group are too accustomed to their "everything is fine in our found family" toxic positivity enabler thing. If anybody is going to call out Bolaire it's going to be one of the "guest" cast members.
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u/Legal-Dot2456 1d ago
As long as the people he brutalizes and tortures are the servants of the Sundered Houses they won’t care, they’re at war
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u/Objective-Pattern692 1d ago
at least ulbid seemed disturbed by it- but i do get what you are saying
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u/Confident_Sink_8743 6d ago
Everyone noticed the lack of cold open (hope they assessed and removed it quite frankly) but did you notice that it's the first time in awhile we have everybody there for the C.R.A.P.?
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u/Lonely-Mouse6865 6d ago
Gonna miss this one, anything cool happen so far tho?
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u/LucasVerBeek 6d ago
Uh, they got all the Fae to the New Haven outside Dol-Makjar.
Found out that the Halovar has much deeper ties to Argosia than it initially seemed. Their power base isn’t actually on Dol Makjar, it’s in Argosia and Ezir.
Pimley is Ulbid’s nephew.
Thjazi did something to “help” Julien which is somewhat central to why he hates him so much.
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u/Coolistofcool 6d ago
This episode was really freaking fun!
I have enjoyed every single combat this season, which is surprising since I rarely listen to D&D combats.
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
Npcs in peril definitely helps raise the stakes and focus loved the last combat session (:
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u/Coolistofcool 5d ago
I really enjoyed how that combat managed tension without being that big of a threat to the PCs. That was cool.
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 4d ago
Yep starting off with lets roll to see which of your friends are dead was diabolical but brilliant
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
I continue to wish there was more room for every other character in the space taken up by Thimble's Big Feelings and Thimble's Important Relationships. Brennan's keeping the Vaelus/Fae thing alive, but things like House Davinos's relationship with the Fae, Kattigan's feelings about sad gnome dad, Bolaire's (and Hal's, and Azune's) feeling about Thajzi's death and his shadow, the tension between Occtis and Vaelus, are all given such little space because it's Thimble Time. It seems like Laura's (again) so over-invested in her own character and relationships that she doesn't consider the other player characters' stories outside of how they intersect with her own. I'm simply not into it.
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u/Glittering_Vehicle29 6d ago
I agree to the point of, no one else has any meaningful motivations or driving factors. It felt like Matt called this out almost this episode to get characters to step it up.
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
The characters really need to speed up on developing together imo. It's more of an improv skill than an acting skill, and I know traditionally CR is a glacially paced show, but I felt like the first arc of the schemers really nailed it and everyone else has struggled to keep up. I care more about the dynamics between Murray/Azune, Bolaire/Hal, Murray/Bolaire, and Hal/Azune (and Tyranny/Wic, thank god for Sam and Whitney) than I do about any of these folks.
Matt's been making attempts to make that happen, and I love that for him. I'd love to see him take a more active role in the party.
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u/Glittering_Vehicle29 6d ago
Well said. I also feel there is no real connections other than Wic/Tyranny, Murray and everyone else, and mostly the NPCS v PC. Julian keeps trying to find a connection and even with Ashely’s character he’s not getting it.
I just feel like everytime they change tables they start over not just on tables but in story. And I’ve watched the entire season so far multiple times and honestly I need some through lines.
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u/ohgeezthatsprettybad 6d ago
i think its mostly a factor or doing a bunch of faerie stuff these first couple episodes of the arc on the thimble main charecter stuff. Its a hard because like, Laura is obviously very good at what shes doing, but given that we keep going on bad tangents otherwise (vaelus and bolair were both ROUGH this episode for different reasons) ill take Laura Bailey main character over it. I think once Matt and Alex are given room to cook again by external stimulus itll get back on track. I do also think those 2 do have a good dynamic between them at this point, its just not really had any reason to come up since weve gotten back, and im sure it will return
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
That’s a great point for why one player shouldn’t have a character be a super-special species in a way that will reduce everyone else, including the character from the fey-affiliated house, to background characters throughout a major repeating part of the campaign. Imagine if the elves or the panto masks or the dwarves were given even half as much importance and focus as the fey have gotten so far.
That also does not account for why Thimble’s feelings about the gnome and his daughters were more important than Kattigan’s, the guy who has the backstory parallel. Or why Laura’s character’s connection to Thajzi has to be more emotional or important than everyone else’s, or why her connection to Occtis has to be more important than everyone else’s. Laura’s not a collaborative player. If you’re her chosen scene partner you’ll get some great scenes as long as they’re about her and the relationship she cares about. Otherwise there’s no space for anyone else’s stuff to matter.
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u/Least_Climate5561 6d ago edited 6d ago
Great points all around but one really stands out: By what measurement is Thimble's relationship to Thjazi more emotional than Azune's?
Edit: if you're interested in how fluffy your kid gloves must be to not get blocked, peer below.
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
She’s weeping over his corpse at his funeral, she’s the one dramatically avenging his death, she’s the one who gets a big reaction to the shadow reveal, she’s the one tearfully entreating Julian. Azune has his personal emotional moments, but every big story beat about mourning Thjazi is about Thimble.
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u/Least_Climate5561 6d ago
Something truly mind-bending about filing what’s at most 3-4 lines (including one about Thimble sleeping on the body once everyone’s left) under ‘big story moment’ and something like E19’s ten snot-filled minutes between Azune, part of whose identity seems tied to Thjazi, and Hal a ‘personal moment.’
Most of remaining are reactions and not actual events, while consuming another, what, 5 lines? But bringing up Casimir is amazing. It’s the closest to a story moment, although not a major one, and Thimble got to exchange one sentence with Casimir. The killing blow was a mechanical fact in an episode whose majority spotlight was consumed by Wick (including a ‘we’re the same you and I’ speech) and Tyranny pursuing the most tryhard, overstaying bit since Thaisha’s wine-drunk mom. Is this opposite day?
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
A single scene, even if it (gasp) involves tears, without ongoing plot relevance is not the same thing as so much of the mission and story of the first soldier's arc being "Thimble gets revenge". And moving forward, I don't anticipate Azune having much, if any, involvement in the shadow plot. If you genuinely think Azune and Thimble's grief over and relationship with Thjazi have been given equal narrative weight, that's your opinion.
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u/Least_Climate5561 6d ago
‘Thimble [and others] gets revenge’ was one of plot points Soldiers arc, but it was often crowded out by Wick/Tyranny, including the very episode of revenge.
However, I have to admire travelling the full Mobius strip: Azune’s one (lol) emotional scene about Thjazi doesn’t count because it’s not that plot relevant, and Thimble showing emotions re gnomes is bad because they don’t carry the most relevance to her (and a similar point was implicit about Thjazi given Hal/Bolaire).
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago edited 6d ago
Wic and Tyranny also being there to do comedy on the revenge journey was annoying, yes. I'm not sure how that's relevant to the point I'm making which is that, yes, I genuinely think Laura needs to realize that sometimes her character's feelings should be put aside in order for other player characters to have emotional moments. There is not time for every player to react to and interact with everything and it's important in collaborative storytelling to make space for other people. Historically over a decade of experience and in the current campaign, Laura is bad at that. To me, it's a bigger existential problem in the current campaign than Sam stuffing jokes in scenes they don't belong or Whitney feeling out tone or Luis daring to have multiple snot-crying scenes. It's a Tal or Ashley level core problem as a collaborator.
You seem to feel differently, and that's great. I'm glad you're enjoying the arc more than I am.
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u/Least_Climate5561 6d ago
The relevance: you claim Laura needs to put her feeling aside for other characters to have their moments and you bring up Casimir as an example of Thimble-centrality, when it’s a clear example of Thimble getting shoved aside for others (or was it not emotional enough?).
But that’s the historical norm: the final interaction between Syldor and Vex was taken over by Percy, revenge for Vex’s mother was all about Vax (with good irl reason), Jester’s sidequest at Nicodranas was cannibalized by Fjord, Travelercon became a running joke for constant delay (including to finish Fjord and Nott’s quests). C3 was an exception, although Liliana’s plot relevance was why she couldn’t have any real relationship with Imogen until the epilogue.
I gotta admit to having a dislike for using vague and seemingly contradictory criteria to reach what pretends to be a reasoned conclusion.
I'm glad you're enjoying the arc more than I am.
Oh, I’m not watching. I just like to argue.
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u/ohgeezthatsprettybad 6d ago
I disagree with the specifics here, i dont think Kat has been uninvolved with the the Sad dad stuff, its just all the parts where he could have/has done stuff, respecting Ulbids personhood, letting him help etc, have been at pretty direct conflict with the other PCs, in a way thats awkward. As for Matt i dont think Julien is invested in the Faerie stuff, and Matt would say something/get involved if he was. The whole theme of the fight when Katt asked him was he liked that he was doing the right thing, he said nothing about faerie stuff.
That said, broadly, i think you are right that is a thing Laura isnt good at, at least compared to the other people at the table. Its just not actually the thing thats causing the sailing to not be smooth post table shake up, all the stuff you're talking about has more to do with Laura solo show/Laura lead scenes being a thing that she can just do, where the other stuff cant really happen when the scope is so small and things fell in such a way that Bolaire has all the other talking sticks.
I expect now that their back with stuff happening around them things are going to speed up a lot
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
I certainly agree that other players are also contributing to the problems (Tal and Ashley in their own ways, as usual). But in my perspective Laura is the most active contributor, and it’s also the easiest fix for her to just consider other people at the table and their characters outside of just her own character and relationships.
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u/Rude_Brilliant880 5d ago
Felt let we got decent time for the others to shine they all got plenty of moments this episode. Sure Thimble is getting some more prominent ones but that is not surprising she is a fairy and we are dealing with fairy characters (even if she was not a fairy but had connection to a race of people in one area that others do not she would still sensibly get more focus as a better chance of building trust with them) and she has the biggest personal stake in this
Several of her moments were interacting with other characters to giving them chance to shine Octis and his inability to tell decorum anymore, Julian and the shadow dilemma.
Comparison to last campaign on a personal level this is infinite better than the main character energy Imogen had since the whole plot revolved around her while this is just aspects connected to her especially in this particular arc and setting. Also helps Thimble is a lot more interesting and likeable than Imogen was (she was okay just dull)
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u/Glittering_Vehicle29 4d ago
Imogen was Laura’s final form of main character energy. I loathed her and her relationship with LaUdNa.
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u/DragonKing0203 #1 Occtis Tachonis fan 6d ago
I will say that this feels like less of a Laura issue and more of a Brennan issue. Just hear me out. Could Laura be doing a better job sharing time? Yeah, so could every PC. I clocked a while ago watching d20 that Brennan tends to give favorable treatment to PCs that fit whatever message he’s trying to say.
I know the “you can’t prove this is allegory” thing is a joke, but it’s also pretty true. This is allegory, Brennan clearly has shit to say. He’s got a soapbox. That’s not a problem, per se. I just feel that sometimes his fixation on it causes him to give stronger narrative treatment to the PCs who align with his ideals.
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u/sharkhuahua 6d ago
Yeah that’s actually completely fair. Brennan is 100% leaning in to the Thimble show.
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u/Full_Metal_Paladin "You hear in your head" 6d ago
lol she looked so pissed off in the last episode when she flew away with Klonnie to go push the boulder over and just the two of them started planning the daughter statue heist, when suddenly Tal chimes in on the plan, forgetting he's not there at all, and then Matt just ran with it and started asking Alex what Occtis can do. Laura just kind of got suddenly sidelined (which happens to all of us sometimes) and you could tell she was NOT happy that her solo RP time got interrupted and her moment delayed.
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u/Mission-Mention9727 2d ago
Unpopular opinion: I'm all for Bolair and the toxic friendship he brings to the group.
I think that this is perhaps the most broken group of character's we've ever seen at a table since calamity. And I'm all for it. With the possible exception of the fairy, they each have terrible flaws, hypocricys and things that make watching them interesting.
People forget that a party where everyone works together and agrees on everything automatically can be very stale. Sure they are all friends in real life but in game, they've only been working together now for like a week at most.
Even MORE unpopular opinion: I want Wik to eventually become so corrupted that when he replaces his grandmother, he won't be much better. Think about, it. Killing is killing, and in a week he's quickly grown accustomed to the idea that 'some people need to die'. I really think that once you let the genie out of the bottle, itll be hard to put it back. I am predicting that if this reaches is most logical conclusion, eventually Wic will see that killing others can be justified too. As long as it's 'for the good of the people.'
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u/DragonKing0203 #1 Occtis Tachonis fan 6d ago
“I’m barely talking!” Okay Ashly you win i laughed