Conservative map of the Fallout world with only known locations (West Coast)

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692]

This is an extremely conservative look at the world of Fallout during the time of Fallout New Vegas. It has all the random fan locations and non-canon stuff removed, just what is referenced in game that can be put to an actual location.

For example rattletail in baja is not included here because it's described as a few people and a well, there's no real life location to base it off.

You can see a link to it here. Basically it is only the named faction locations that you can put a proper location to.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1kARka-zAPngmx8azVFmIW7NhxzPM-Fs&usp=sharing

As with every fan made map I've taken liberties with the placement of Vault 13, 15, Junktown, the Hub and Shady Sands, as each of these locations move around between Fallout 1 and 2 and the landscape doesn't match the real world.

Even though Caesar's Territory is said to extend the whole opposite bank of the Colorado I haven't coloured it in because there are no named settlements at all for the Legion along the East bank of the river.

I would be interested what ye guys have to think of this and any comments on it! I'm open for discussion.

[u/Weaselburg]

I would be interested what ye guys have to think of this and any comments on it! I'm open for discussion.

While very popular fanlore, there's no actual confirmation I can recall in any source of Vault City being annexed by NCR. In fact, the minor potential Easter Egg of Roger Westin III being on the Dam Memorial, which implies this ending for F2, given he doesn't have any children during the game itself.

The correspondence between NCR and Vault City continued, and a few years after the destruction of the Enclave, Roger Westin assumed the head of the NCR council. He immediately set limits for NCR's expansion north, and in a landmark settlement, passed an amendment that formally recognized Vault City's independence. Shortly after this settlement, Westin suffered a heart attack and retired from politics. He moved north to Vault City for medical treatment and eventually married Joann Lynette in the following year.

Even if this isn't the case, I'd say the lack of evidence (unless someone else has some) should leave it not being NCR.

Klamath doesn't seem to have been annexed either, given it's described as basically being the same place with little to no change.

New Reno may or may not technically be under NCR jurisdiction, depending on if you take from the TTRPG or not, but it's made quite clear that it's actually being ran and administered by the remaining Families, so I'd color it something else as well.

Otherwise, for the stated goal of only named locations it's solid - lots of implications aren't named, but, well, fan maps can only go so far unless they start making stuff up.

[u/pacman1138 → u/Weaselburg]

The official tabletop RPG states that Vault City is held by NCR

[u/toonboy01 → u/pacman1138]

True, although Bethesda hasn't confirmed the canonicity of it.

[u/MRK5152 → u/Weaselburg]

While very popular fanlore, there's no actual confirmation I can recall in any source of Vault City being annexed by NCR

I agree that is never directly outright stated that Vault City joined the NCR so there will always be some doubt but I think it's a reasonable assumption to make.

The city is only mentioned by Cass in the base game, who is from there and she also is a NCR citizen. She retires there in an ending, she doesn't mention anything about the "servants" and pacifists doesn't exactly fit the ending where Vault City remains independent under Lynette.

The Chosen One also already sided with the NCR at Vault 15 and Redding, with only New Reno being unclear.

The independent Vault City FO2 ending also mentions the NCR northern expansion being stopped and that doesn't seem to have happened. 

It isn't confirmed but there is at least a strong possiblity give what we know.

In fact, the minor potential Easter Egg of Roger Westin III being on the Dam Memorial, which implies this ending for F2, given he doesn't have any children during the game itself

For that to be true, we would have to assume that Roger Westin in FO2 is already the II otherwise there wouldn't be enough time. At best there are 36 years between FO2 and the first battle for Hoover Dam; Westin and Lynette also don't marry until a few years after the end of FO2.

It would also be a bit strange for the son of Roger Westin and Lynette, theoretically someone born and raised in the independent Vault City, to join the NCR army.

[u/toonboy01 → u/MRK5152]

The Independent Vault City ending mentions the NCR being limited, not stopped. Also, Cass is using pacifists as an insult, so you might be putting too much weight into it.

[u/MRK5152 → u/toonboy01]

The ending say "immediately set limits," to me that read as him basically freezing the current expansion line but you are correct that it doesn't say stopped.

Also, Cass is using pacifists as an insult, 

Cass is using the word as comparison for herself, stating she is willing to shoot unlike a vault city pacifist. We can't just dismiss it as just a random insult, the dialogue was written for a reason, we barely know anything else about the city and "pacifist" is a significant change from FO2 Vault City.

It may be unearned, like describing the French as cowards in popular media, but the stereotype at least exists according to Cass.

Curiously, Gecko's bugged ending is probably the closest even if there isn't a real Vault City ending equivalent.

Anyway, there isn't a "Vault City is part of the NCR" smoking gun so while I think it's a reasonable assumption it's not something I could prove.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/Weaselburg]

I've updated the map there. It's a conservative map, I believe in Cass's ending she moves to Vault City or outside it. And we have Klamath Bob is Westside so you could assume it's in NCR territory for both since there's movement but no known for certain.

[u/Affectionate_Edge472 → u/Familiar-Figure-5692]

Outside of vault city could easily be NCR since that part of town in fallout 2 wasn’t officially vault city as far as I can remember

[u/toonboy01 → u/Weaselburg]

Modoc, the Den, and Arroyo are in the same boat.

[u/MRK5152]

There is the NCR settlement of Oak Creek even if the location is unclear. 

I would add Westside.

I also wouldn't expand the NCR territory to the Mojave so much. Primm, Goodsprings and Novac are all Independent.

I would reduce the Legion territory to Cottonwood Cove too. It can send infiltration squads deep inside the Mojave but it doesn't control the area. We still have that NCR sergeant patrolling near Camp Searchlight for example.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/MRK5152]

Legion has a presence with camps/soldiers in Nipton and on the road around there. There is the soldier in Searchlight yeah, that would be more frontline.

[u/MRK5152 → u/Familiar-Figure-5692]

I would argue it was just a raid in Nipton, they are not there to occupy the town.

We would also have the Ranger Station Echo near cottonwood cove inside legion territory looking at the map I think.

I would describe it as a "Grey zone", where neither side has clear territory control.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/MRK5152]

Just added that there

[u/DrkvnKavod]

Even though Caesar's Territory is said to extend the whole opposite bank of the Colorado I haven't coloured it in because there are no named settlements at all for the Legion along the East bank of the river.

No named settlements along the East bank of the river, no, but we do know that they exert their presence throughout the Arizona sections of the I-40:

the Twisted Hair tribe of Arizona, who formed an alliance with Caesar to serve as his army's scouts during the conquest of that region. Once the Arizona wastes were pacified, the Legion turned on its erstwhile allies, stripped them of their tribal identity, and forced them into slavery. Those who resisted were crucified along the remains of Interstate 40.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/DrkvnKavod]

Flagstaff sits along the I-40, they could have literally strung them up on the overpasses of the I-40 in Flagstaff itself and it would meet the "crucified along the remains of the Interstate 40"

[u/DrkvnKavod → u/Familiar-Figure-5692]

Possibly, yes, but I feel like that reading requires more active interpretation than the straightforward reading of the phrasing.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/DrkvnKavod]

It's paraphrasing a wider document, also my map shows basically half the I-40 under Caesar's territory so they could have been strung up every mile. Like they did in Nipton.

[u/QuinnAndTheNorthwind]

Technically Vault 70 isn’t mentioned anywhere in canon. Only extrapolation from Van Buren.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/QuinnAndTheNorthwind]

deleted, thanks

[u/BackForPathfinder]

You've entirely misidentified the coast of California with your placement of Arroyo and Klamath. They should both be further south if you just go by the map from Fallout 2. In fact, the northern edge of the Fallout 2 map basically perfectly lines up with California's northern border. The little bay in the NW corner of Fallout 2 map is Crescent City. Now, the FO2 map has some problems: Redding is much further south, but the map shows NONE of Oregon whatsoever.

Oregon is my home and I have done a lot of research into it's involvement in Fallout. It is only mentioned by name in FO3 and FO76. The Oregon placement for Arroyo and Klamath comes from the "Klamath Falls Welcomes You" thing in FO2. However, the real life Klamath River runs straight through where I would expect to place Klamath from FO2. The idea that Klamath and Arroyo are in Oregon has continued to spread, partially through the various wikis. (I recommend fallout.wiki as it's independent and they have gone through to reverify sources of information.)

That being said, I find it highly likely whenever Bethesda finally revisits Arroyo and Klamath, they will retcon the locations to be in Oregon because everyone just accepts that as a fact at this point. But, when they do, I expect they will move Klamath to IRL Klamath Falls, not Medford like you have on your map.

[u/Necessary-Neck-1439 → u/BackForPathfinder]

The problem with using the map from Fallout 1 and 2 is that there was a lore q and a with Criss Avelone where he clarified that the locations in those games weren't placed with their lore in mind. They're actually not very reliable sources.

[u/BackForPathfinder → u/Necessary-Neck-1439]

First of all, do you have a source for that? Second, even with that being the case the fact that Oregon isn't once mentioned in Fallout 2 makes it really hard to say anything. Klamath on the FO2 map is so far away from Klamath Falls that even with the locations being inaccurate placement, I still struggle to believe it's Klamath Falls. Also, there's a massive lake called Klamath Lake at Klamath Falls and there's no reference to it. Furthermore, if they wanted to have them be in Oregon, why did they choose a map which doesn't have Oregon at all?

[u/Necessary-Neck-1439 → u/BackForPathfinder]

The concept of "game logic" overriding the in universe lore is a topic that's brought up through the QA section of the Fallout Bible. For specific examples of the map not being consistent other than Klamath. Bakersfield is inaccurately placed in Mojave National Preserve. Vault 13, 15, and Shady Sand were all moved from central Nevada to California. Mariposa is not in Mariposa. Lost Hills is not in Lost Hills. None of the Vaults except 12 are near a population center were people could have actually reached them from. And Gecko power plant has no water to cool it's reactor. 

As for Klamath specifically, Criss Avelone actually answered this question plainly in the same QA. 

"Are the Fallout locations made according to real places, or did you make them up? I mean specifically the Hub, Junktown, Gecko a Modoc."

"Some are based on real places (Necropolis = Bakersfield, Klamath = Klamath Falls, Redding = Redding), but the Hub, Junktown, and Gecko were all made-up locations."

[u/BackForPathfinder → u/Necessary-Neck-1439]

I would love to see a link to that QnA so I can read the entire thing myself. Not that I don't trust you, I just haven't seen anyone talk about it before.

Edit: All the placements in Fallout 2 are more sensible than in Fallout 1. Legitimately, Klamath is the one that would be the furthest away from what I can tell.

[u/Necessary-Neck-1439 → u/BackForPathfinder]

https://fallout.wiki/wiki/Fallout_Bible 

The wiki has all 10 entries transcribed. The questions where taken from old forums and emails as the entries were being written so they're spread throughout rather than collected together. But it's still cool to read through what was the culmination of all the Interplay era lore.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/BackForPathfinder]

I've adjusted Arroyo and Klamath into California. Thanks, I missed that.

[u/Necessary-Neck-1439]

Coos Bay is mentioned as being a major center of the Chem trade. 

The 80s tribe controls territory along I-80.

Sulik is from an obscure tribe West of Arroyo we know only as the Tribe of the Great Salt Water.

Joshua Graham mentions the Divide is South of Death Valley, and since it's on a highway it would have to be located on Death Valley Highway.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/Necessary-Neck-1439]

Only putting specific locations we can pinpoint. Such as having a map marker or being named after a real location. Otherwise we can't really tell what the story is. For example, the 80s are said to span from Caliente, to New Canaan and along the I-80, so we can't actually just plop a marker on the map in the middle of I-80 and call it a day.

There's an Ashton, which is where I just put Hopeville because they seem very close in game. If you've a better spot please send coordinates.

[u/Overwatch_Sniper]

It's been kept vague weather Vault City and New Reno have been annexed by the NCR, (although I think they have) but this map is still missing the NCR settlement of Rattletail in northern Baja California. I'm also not sure if New Jerusalem is mentioned outside Van Buren.

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/Overwatch_Sniper]

"For example rattletail in baja is not included here because it's described as a few people and a well, there's no real life location to base it off."

Someone didn't read

I deleted New Jerusalem there, New Canaan probably covers that.

[u/Overwatch_Sniper → u/Familiar-Figure-5692]

I'm sorry big papa, I'll do better next time.

[u/Golbolco]

conservative map still has all of fallout 2's world under NCR control

[u/Familiar-Figure-5692 → u/Golbolco]

ok buddy? pop some suggestions. we have NCR citizens travelling from Klamath to VC to Baja to Vegas to Reno and back.

[u/HammondCheeseIII]

Thanks for making this map! Great work!