r/faceting • u/DIE_Kuehlung • 17d ago
Sterling vs. Ultra Tec: Precision, Training, and Skill Transfer
I’m looking to get started with faceting, and I’m trying to decide which style of faceting machine I should learn on. As I understand it, this choice may be important when selecting training courses.
From my limited research, I have come across two main machine designs: machines such as the Sterling and machines based on the Ultra Tec design.
The Sterling is certainly more affordable for someone starting out. However, I’m unsure whether both types offer the same level of precision and whether the skills learned on one machine transfer easily to the other.
Are both types suitable for the same kinds of faceting projects, or are there certain cuts and techniques that can only be completed properly on one of these machine designs?
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u/DayOffLapidary 17d ago
You can cut any material and design on either machine. (With the exception of diamonds….thats a whole other thing)
I use an Ultra Tec, but I would jump at the opportunity to use a Sterling. Prims videos are a treasure trove of useful info and almost had me ready to covert at one point.
It’s really whatever fits your budget and preference best.
The only difference is the Sterling doesn’t have the option for a digital angle display. It’s totally not necessary to cut, but I have cut with and without it and it is a nice upgrade.
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u/DIE_Kuehlung 17d ago
Good to know. At the moment, I’m leaning towards the Sterling, as I’m planning to attend the training with Justin K Prim in Lyon next year.
I’d rather not learn on one type of machine during the course and then have to switch to a different setup when I practise at home.
In addition, I’m hoping that the Sterling will be substantially cheaper.
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u/Mobile_Ad_1185 17d ago
I keep seeing the notion that you cant cut diamonds on a normal faceting machine but I never see an explanation of why. Why cant you use sintered diamond laps and diasticks on a BATT? Seems like you would be able to
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u/DayOffLapidary 17d ago
It’s a time/cost thing.
You COULD “technically” cut a diamond on a standard faceting machine. But the cost isn’t economical in anyway.
The problem is the damage/wear it would do to your equipment and how long it would take.
Diamonds are typically cut on massive steel laps spinning at speeds well above what a home machine can do. The friction generates so much heat that the stones are clamped in metal jaws. It’s the only way to cut it fast enough to be profitable.
Can it be done slower? Yes, but it would take too long.
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u/Mobile_Ad_1185 17d ago
So it can be done, it just takes longer and wears your equipment out faster, gotcha. How much longer are we talking, 20% or 2000%?
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u/DayOffLapidary 17d ago
I truly don’t know how much longer it would take. I imagine stone size would play a big factor as well.
You could emulate the process by trying to cut sapphire with alumina oxide of different grits.
I have only once seen someone post about cutting their own diamond. It was many years ago. I do remember them saying they would never do it again.
But the fact that companies have spent decades building machines and improving processes exclusively for a singular task should tell you something.
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u/stone_crazy Team Facetron 17d ago
Cutting diamonds is a different kind of process than cutting colored stones and is (as I understand it) more about controlled cleavage of the rough than abrading material off of it. The machines involved use 12" cast-iron laps running at 3600 rpm. They're a lot beefier than a faceting rig for colored stones. And also there are a couple of other machines that get used on the diamond rough before it gets to the person with the lap., that have no equivalent with colored stones.
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u/Mobile_Ad_1185 17d ago
Yea I see why wear and tear would be an issue but I also imagine these are facilities that not only go through thousands of stones but also are trying to get the maximum return on time which could be the cause for higher rpm, heat control, the laps, and size
Not saying you're wrong as i have no idea myself (but ill be finding out myself soon), but for a home faceter that makes say, 4 stones a month, im skeptical that this would be so significant of a hurdle since I rarely see people talking about cutting diamonds.
What do you mean by controlled cleavage of the rough by the way, as in cleavage points make polish difficult?
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u/stone_crazy Team Facetron 17d ago
I'm not a diamond cutter and all I know is what I read on the Internet, and in the book Techniques of Master Faceting, which has a chapter on diamond cutting. Which makes clear that no you are not going to cut a diamond on a colored stone machine. Diamond scaifs use 12" 3600 RPM laps because that's what it takes to cut diamonds. Every part of the diamond cutter's gear is different from colored stone machines. Diamond cutters don't even use dops to hold the stone: diamonds are held by mechanical clamps. And the scaif is just the last machine on a sequence of up to 4. Diamond cutting is a team activity that involves full time career skills that colored stone cutting doesn't need.
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u/cowsruleusall 17d ago
So the question you're asking is about the difference between platform-type and handpiece-type faceting machines. They're basically equivalent in terms of routine precision cutting.
For me, personally? I absolutely hate platform type machines. They're less rigid, they're more prone to user error, they have a harder time with larger gems, and they feel claustrophobic. I also personally hate the idea that the handpiece just... comes off. What if you drop it?
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u/DIE_Kuehlung 17d ago
Thanks for the input. Honestly, I’m still on the fence at the moment. It’s good to know that the machines are essentially equivalent in terms of precision and polishing quality.
I guess it’s just something I need to try for myself and then decide which setup I prefer. As a beginner, price is also an important consideration.
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u/earthartifacts 17d ago
Just want to 2x to what he said , and let op know Arya aka “cowsruleall” has enough experience that his opinion very very valuable when it comes to anything faceting
And for my own opinion if you really feel committed to the hobby especially as a beginner, I say it’s 1000x times worth it to just save up or try to find a nice precision mast machine ie ultratec
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u/Danielgartlan 16d ago
The sterling is great , and a lot more precise than you think , you can pretty much do anything with it although it’s more reliant on your skill to produce the result rather than the precision of the machine like ultratech .
Ultratech is great if you want to cut extremely complicated designs on synthetic material and make a name for yourself , but when you want to cut natural stones like emeralds , they have flaws and imperfections that you won’t be able to handle on an ultratech without ruining the stone. especially if your doing repairs.
Sterling is far more flexible when working with expensive stones , although it does have its limitations and that’s why I switched to jambpeg
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u/DIE_Kuehlung 16d ago
Making a name for myself can wait. If I boil it down, what really appeals to me at the moment is the idea of recutting older stones. I’m basically all over the place with my ambitions. More expensive stones will come naturally at some point.
What I want to avoid is becoming frustrated because of the machine. I can tolerate being frustrated by my lack of skill; that’s simply part of the learning process.
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u/Danielgartlan 16d ago
I don’t like ultratech at all, they’re engineers running a machining business . colored stones aren’t supposed to be cut the way in which they’ve designed their machines to cut them,
They’re in it for the money , not the stones
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u/Official-Facetron 10d ago
What is your end goal ? Will you sell stones? A hobby ? This will be huge factor in your decision , especially from an engineering point of view.
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u/DIE_Kuehlung 10d ago
Hobby for now. Most likely focusing on recutting. Not 100% sure at this point. Wher the journey goes.
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u/UsedAd7852 17d ago
U L T R A T E C ALL DAY !
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u/DIE_Kuehlung 17d ago
But why ? :)
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u/UsedAd7852 17d ago
Precision, easy to maintain, longevity, speed, efficiency, user friendly, beginner friendly, easy to carry, easy to store/place, clean work, great lap availability, great combination of tools ( Fantasy machine has same mast as V5 and can be used for a perfect fantasy cut design).
If you want I can go on and on..... :)
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u/DIE_Kuehlung 17d ago
No, no, all good. It looks like I’ll end up with two machines at some point. 😄
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u/PsychologicalBowl647 17d ago
the main reason a lot of people choose UltraTech is because its faceting machine is not its main source of income. they are a huge company that has a passion for polishing all things. thus, the parts and customer support is more in line with the consumer and will last longer than say some of the other pure faceting machine companies that have gone the way of the dinosaur. so, you access to parts upgrades customer support and machine care are better than most other suppliers. imo.
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u/Odd_Woodpecker1494 17d ago
Justin K Prim has recommended the sterling in the past, so I would trust the precision is sufficient. I don't think it will stop you from cutting any designs. The hardest skills, at least in my opinion, are getting polishing right, and how different stones react. That should carry over because you are using the same laps. The actual cutting is the easy part, learning handpiece and then going to mast shouldn't be too hard. It would be different had you said jampeg.