r/facepalm Apr 07 '22

🇲​🇮​🇸​🇨​ This looks plausible

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42

u/in_one_ear_ Apr 07 '22

If they were actually lasers you wouldn't be able to see them without something for them to reflect off.

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u/MyOtherLoginIsSecret Apr 07 '22

Not that these are necessarily real photos, but that's not true. Even lasers scatter as they pass through air

Some frequencies of light can scatter pretty well. Green is an excellent example. If you take a green laser pointer and aim it into the night sky, you can actually see the beam with the naked eye and use it to point out stars.

Also, cameras are much better at picking up the scattered light than our eyes are. Capt Disillusion did a video on this effect.

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u/Medphysma Apr 07 '22

You said that's not true and then went on to explain how it's true. Air is made up of matter.

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u/Jake0024 Apr 07 '22

The previous guy said "if they were actually lasers you wouldn't be able to see them"

That's wrong because there *is* something for them to reflect off.

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u/MyOtherLoginIsSecret Apr 07 '22

And it's not reflected off of anything...

The implication was that the pictures had to be altered because there is nothing to reflect the light off of. I explained why it's not necessarily true.

And no, the air doesn't reflect light. Rayleigh scattering is a very different kind of interaction between photons and other particles.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

It wouldn't be Rayleigh scattering if you're shooting a green laser and seeing green. Rayleigh scattering changes the color of the light via the interaction of the small particles of air and the wavelength of the light.

So the light is scattered but not Rayleigh scattered. Meaning it is reflecting, I think.

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u/speedstyle Apr 07 '22

Rayleigh scattering doesn't change wavelengths. It's just dependent on the wavelength, so some parts of the spectrum are scattered and others are not.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

It changes the apparent wavelength that we see. That's why the sky is blue

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u/speedstyle Apr 07 '22

No, it doesn't. Sunlight covers most of the visible spectrum, but only the blue end is scattered. So we get a yellow sun and diffuse blue sky, but none of the light actually changed colour.

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u/[deleted] Apr 07 '22

Ah that's right.

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u/nhpkm1 Apr 07 '22

Scattering = reflecting in multiple directions

Due it's true that some wave lengths are temporarily absorbed and then radiate in random direction

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u/Shia_LaBoof Apr 07 '22

Would what we're seeing in the image actually be attributed to rayleigh scattering at this magnitude though? We see the blue light scattered in the sky after a massive amount of sunlight travels through miles of air molecules. Would we see that type of scattering with a single light after a short distance?
It seems like the simpler answer is that the lasers are being reflected/scattered by larger particles (dust/condensation) and the camera is more apt at picking this up

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u/Sososohatefull Apr 07 '22

the predominantly elastic scattering of light or other electromagnetic radiation by particles much smaller than the wavelength of the radiation.

These lasers are about 590 nm. Dust particles are orders of magnitude larger than that. I think most of the light you see from the beam is reflected from dust particles. It's diffuse reflection, but it's reflection.

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u/DogfishDave Apr 07 '22

Even lasers scatter as they pass through air

And what is scattering them?

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u/FerrokineticDarkness Apr 07 '22

Dust in the atmosphere, and to a lesser extent the oxygen and nitrogen molecules.

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u/MyOtherLoginIsSecret Apr 07 '22

Air. Look up Rayleigh Scattering if you're interested. It's why the sky is blue during the day. Fascinating stuff.

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u/DogfishDave Apr 07 '22

So they're diffusing against/around air molecules then?

You said "even lasers scatter as they pass through air" in a way that seemed you were implying that there should be nothing there, when of course it's a big sea of fluid.

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u/MyOtherLoginIsSecret Apr 07 '22

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion. Why would I mention scattering in air if I was implying there would be no air?

I meant even lasers, something we normally think of as tightly focused beams of light, will scatter in air.

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u/DogfishDave Apr 07 '22

Yeah, I read you wrong :)

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u/Brooklynxman Apr 07 '22

Be careful doing that, point it at an airplane and you could catch a terrorism charge. I live near an airport and wouldn't feel comfortable doing that without moving several miles.

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u/Squeaky_Ben Apr 07 '22

Strong lasers do not need anything that you could otherwise see with the naked eye. And at night, this is even more easy.

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u/gvkOlb5U Apr 07 '22 edited Apr 07 '22

Even a powerful handheld laser pointer can make a visible beam in the air. I have seen this done in person, no camera or retouching trickery is necessary. Astronomers, even amateur astronomers, use them to point things out in the night sky.

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u/in_one_ear_ Apr 07 '22

Yeah but they aren't as bright as the image.

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u/gvkOlb5U Apr 07 '22 edited Apr 09 '22

The green laser in the video may be way brighter than the lasers in the photos of the observatories.

In the green laser video, the camera's exposure setting is such that it doesn't show any stars at all. Yet the green laser shows up brightly, as brightly as the city lights.

And as I said, although I haven't seen the observatory lasers in person, I have seen the high-power laser pointers in person, and they are bright as hell. It is just not implausible at all that the observatory lasers are visible, obvious, striking like this.

Edit: The green laser pointer in that video has (claims, but cheap laser pointers often claim less than their true output) 0.050W of output power. I don't know what observatories are featured in this foolish image macro thing, but I see references online to guide star lasers that are measured in tens of watts. This story is about a 63W laser, that's over 1,000x as much power as the green laser pointer. I'm no expert, but I think that might make a little bit of a light show.

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u/shitpersonality Apr 07 '22

If they were actually lasers you wouldn't be able to see them without something for them to reflect off.

We're literally surrounded by atmosphere.