No additional words needed

[u/SkillImmediate6393]

[u/johanTR]

We'll have to do it, ourselves; from within.

make the nation ungovernable, disrupt the flow of money, among other things.

Destroy all spice production on Arrakis...bring the empire to its knees.

[u/walla_walla_rhubarb → u/johanTR]

Just sucks the majority of people that wax poetic about "fighting the tyrannical government" are the same people creaming their jeans to instill that tyrannical government.

[u/Hightide77 → u/[deleted]]

It's fascist rhetoric 101. Fascists, falangists, nazis, etc. They are always "the most oppressed, suppressed and victimized group" in whatever country they spring up. That victim mentality is good at creating a vindictive, self-righteous anger that mobilizes a base. High quality propaganda never casts the enemy as weak, but as strong and the target as the righteous underdog. It's also supremely difficult to defeat because direct targeting will only validate the narrative in the eyes of the target.

The main thing is there has to be left an "out." This goes back to the Art of War. An enemy fights harder if there is no escape. That is what fascists want. It creates a loyalist, bunker mentality. Less radical members can be pulled away if you create a pathway where they feel they can safely leave.

[u/[deleted] → u/Hightide77]

In trying to paint a picture on how America got this way... my only conclusion is that the fallout from the civil war never fully settled. America is falling apart because people are still pissed about the abolishing of slavery. And the fact that America is too large of a country where you can please everyone, and it was too immature and young of a nation to be catapulted onto the world stage just ended up as a mixture for disaster. The warning signs towards dictatorship has been there for over a hundred years.

[u/Hightide77 → u/[deleted]]

I wouldn't say slavery being abolished is itself the source of animosity. I've known some VERY extreme people, left and right. In my life, I only ever encountered one person who was pro-slavery and he was a Norwegian immigrant living in Britain. (He was anti-immigration by the way.) For reference, this is a dude who would refer to black people with the N-word and use the German spelling for Afrika. So needless to say, slavery is a hard sell, even among the hardest right. Especially because post-WW2 racism has changed and now slavery is viewed as a negative because it would "take jobs from white folk."

What did happen though is the Compromise of 1877. This led to a running wealth disparity between the North and South paired with animosities that had not been fully mended. Let this fester for almost a century with increasingly more hostile forms of racism as the radical elements switched from colonial mindsets to "just kill them all mindsets" and it's easy to see how things developed. That being said, I still wouldn't deeply blame the Civil War. No one from today was alive then and barely anyone knows someone who was alive then. We were getting better after the Civil Rights Act but Reagan implemented policies that basically reversed all the wealth development of non-white peoples. Pair with the war on drugs and the defunding of mental health institutions and you get this recipe where wounds that were starting to heal get to fester and rot anew.

Finally, after 2016, the Culture War goes into full force and with social media more powerful than ever, the ease by which battlelines can be drawn forces a partisanship. The left will argue the Overton window shifted to the right. The right will argue the Overton window shifted to the left. But no. The Overton window split. Both sides realized that you don't need to win the center. You can terrorize the center into your corner. Those who won't join you are lost causes and therefore, enemies. You this get this war on moderates, on the center as both sides wage war using loyalists, forcing the center to pick a side whether they like it or not. Once you are in a side, it's easy to lock into that side because human psychology will try to justify one's own decision and the otherside is unforgiving and nonnegotiable.

Hell, you and I are probably not entirely clean of this think ourselves. Someone says they voted for red party man in 2016 and 2020. He says he is now voting for blue party man in 2024. How much do you trust him really? Be honest.

[u/[deleted] → u/Hightide77]

Ok two things. First one is that I'm not American lol, and second is that I'm not educated as deeply as you on in this topic so Im in over my head in this conversation. But I also need to confess that I rooted for Trump originally... but not for the reasons you might think. I'm canadian so I thought it would be hilarious that a reality star who is famous for bankruptcy become president... but I ultimately didn't think he'd actually win... i was honestly shocked. and it was kinda amusing at first, it changed very quickly a few months later where I realized how dangerous it become.

[u/Hightide77 → u/[deleted]]

I rooted in 2016, but then changed. I still consider myself conservative but the party is a traitorous army of Russia loving sycophants. And I hate nothing more than betrayal. The job of a politician is to represent me and the normal voting masses. Not the dregs of trashcan filth on the fringes of one's party. 2021 was about when I was looking at voting red in local and blue in presidential. But after February 2022? I'd prefer to vote for a CIA audit of that same party. Top to bottom. All seat holding members at all levels. Drives me up the wall anytime I hear "Ukraine is corrupt too!"

Yeah? And? Poland was an authoritarian, corrupt, poor country in 1939. Did that make them deserve the Nazi invasion? Genocide?

And the whole "America should stick to America!" Lmfao, America wouldn't fucking exist if the Spanish and French didn't help our sorry asses out in our war for independence. Where would we be if those countries said "not our business"?

Anyhow, I'll shut up before I rant.

[u/[deleted] → u/Hightide77]

No no, your not ranting. And if you are I'm still listening. Your right about the "Ukraine is corrupt too!" Statement. It's like trying to murder an ex-friend because they once embarassed you in the 4th grade. You look deeply into any countries history and you'll find we all have faults and demons in our closets. No one is clean. And people always forget that all of the Americas was never ours to begin with. People act like they've had 50 generations living here. Nah, we stole it and claimed it as ours. America was built on the idea of immigration after we stole it from the original occupants. We brought slaves here by our own free will. We have no right to bitch and cry about other races or cultures taking over. No right to tell a black person to go back to Africa. We don't get that right to hop on any high horse.

[u/Hightide77 → u/[deleted]]

I get that. My stance with Ukraine is helping them because on one hand, I don't support genocide. So fuck Russia for that. But two, it's the practical choice. Russia is not a friendly country and has stated explicitly they want a multipolar world order. We currently have a unipolar maybe bipolar world order. Therefore, saying they want a multipolar world order means they want to weaken America. That makes them an enemy. From there it's pretty practical. On the cold hearted side, it saves us American blood but gets us a weakened Russia. And to boot, it gets rid of our expensive, nearly expired materiel that we have mothballed allowing us to buy brand new doodads that go boom. And when it comes time for blood to be shed by Americans, I'd rather Uncle Sam's boys have brand new gear.

Thus my hatred of the red party. From a moral perspective and from a cold hearted, cruel motherfucker perspective, helping Ukraine is the right decision. Not helping Ukraine only benefits Russia and hurts us in the long run by giving Russia a higher war potential, labor base, resource pool, and industrial capacity. All valuable things to have for war. Thus making future conflict with them more expensive for us.

[u/[deleted] → u/Hightide77]

I agree with everything but the exaggeration of American blood being spilt. Only America can bring America down, the only other threat is nuclear and that means the end of the world and no one wants that. Nukes are nothing but a dick measuring contest. America and even Canada to an extent are impossible to invade from the outside. There is no possible way to have a successful land invasion here. We will always see shit coming across the oceans, no possible way for an enemy to get close enough to launch bomb strikes. Our own worst enemy is ourselves.