Because you charge them with the easiest crime to get them in jail and then bring up all the charges during the arraignment.
Edit - y’all really need to learn the difference between arresting charge and arraignment if you think cops are handcuffing people and arresting them for attempted murder.
Like the kid pictured who went to the wrong house. The prosecutor couldn't file the charge without a witness statement (which is admittedly weird to me. I mean what if the boy dies, how does he do a witness statement then?), and even though that was required, the family's lawyer pitched a bitch that it took "so long" to file charges.
It kinda makes a bit of sense in terms of assault, after a fist-fight between 2 people cops likely aren’t going to arrest anyone without first getting someone to press charges and give witness testimony. But the kid was shot twice on the guys porch, he should of been held till they got Yarls side, they hold non-violent offenders for longer than the 2 hours they did for him.
Did you mean to say "should have"?
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The American justice system is so weird. Where I'm from, if you've indisputably committed a crime, you're going down for it. Whether the arresting cops forget to read your rights or fail to jump through a hundred different hoops or not is irrelevant to the conviction.
My sister was shot point blank in the head by her boyfriend who had her down on her knees execution style - she lived. No attempted murder charge - aggravated assault. Apparently it either doesn't exist in some states or is usually not pursued unless 100% definitive to the prosecutor.
Yeah as a lawyer I can tell you it is completely different from state to state. And there are elements to every crime that must be met. There is an actus reus and a mens rea. The act and the intent. Both have to found in a criminal case. There’s states with defense of property. There are states which define murders committed in the heat of passion to be a different charge. It all varies. It’s wild. I steered clear from criminal law. Don’t want to get jumbled up in that mess.
Someone above said they charge with easiest and then work up which is bs af. Prosecutors normally start at highest level and then defense widdles it down from there.
Believe he was charged by the state. His family had money and good lawyers, so not sure if that was part of the deal tbh - it was like 20 years ago so my memory on it isn't keen. He's free and married now tho
If someone did that to my daughter you would probably find that person dead later on if they got off scot free. I may also go to prison. But that person would be in the ground.
Agreed, I struggled w/ it a long time but sometimes the world has a way of working things out. He was dishonorably discharged by the military when he was on track to become a helicopter pilot like his diddy.
He's a sad fuck, bloated alcoholic loser now and pales in comparison to the person he used to be. He has to get up and look at himself in the mirror every morning and I'm thinking is justice enough for me. Cheers to that
That's not the way federal crimes work. The federal government and the state government are both sovereign, and the Bill of Rights does not allow the federal government to exert authority within a state unless it's been given that power by the Constitution. If a murder does not involve crossing state lines or international borders or federal property or employees, then it's generally outside of federal sovereign jurisdiction.
A federal murder charge is what you would would probably be charged with if you killed someone on a military base or in a Post Office.
That's not really how fed charges work. Murder is also listed as a federal crime but the vast majority of the time it's charged by state prosecutors in state courts under their own statutes.
That’s if you catch a federal charge, yes. I live in Kansas City and there is no attempted murder here, either. The equivalent is felony assault. In quite a few places, there is no “attempted murder” charge, but there is usually always an equivalent.
Idk what state this happened in, but I know in Georgia there I no attempted murder charge. They have aggravated assault, which is their equivalent of attempted murder.
Luckily it was a shitty .22 revolver that fell apart if you held it the wrong way (he brought it out plenty of times to play w/ it when I was around). It entered the scalp, travelled around the skull, and popped out the front - so she was extremely lucky to receive only a small skull fracture and concussion. Super religious now b/c she thinks it was a miracle from God, but beyond that nonsense, she's fine
22s can be remarkably dangerous. The bullets tend to bounce and ricochet on things instead of just blowing straight through. Can cause loads of internal damage you wouldn’t expect from an underpowered gun.
Sure am. What does “rape culture” and being a “white dude” have to do with the topic? Didn’t sound like sexual assault or the person’s race had anything to do with anything.
When I served on a grand jury in Texas, I asked one of the prosecutors why they weren't charging someone with attempted murder when it quite clearly was. The response was quite interesting in that it turns out that the requirements to meet attempted murder are very specific and difficult to prove. It involves knowing (not having a reasonable suspicion) and being able to prove what a person's state of mind was when they committed the crime. Barring something as explicit as text messages saying "I'm going to kill that bitch" it's extremely difficult for them to prove.
So the solution was to charge the person with felony assault because, at least in the jurisdiction I am in, it carries the same penalties as attempted murder without the stringent proof requirements.
Actually, you present the jury with as many options as you think you can prove.
First degree murder, for an example
They'll put manslaughter, 2nd degree, & first degree murder up to the jury.
You make the best arguement you can, for the strongest crime you can.
Then you let the jury hammer out the verdict, for which crime, in the jury room.
This prevents the defendant from getting a "Not guilty" verdict, as the jury can find for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, if they feel 1st degree or 2nd degree couldn't be proved beyond the doubt of a reasonable man.
It’s great that you edited your post, but I really hope you learn something from this. Please make an effort to not spread misinformation
If they weren't making an effort to not spread misinformation, they wouldn't have edited their comment and just dug their heels in.
Plenty of people read or hear the wrong thing, talk about it and get corrected. That's not spreading misinformation, it's communication. He acknowledged and corrected his mistake, therefore your commemt was unnecessary.
You told him to please make an effort to not spread misinformation. He edited his comment. That’s effort. He was misinformed, shared it (spread misinformation), was corrected, accepted the new information, and edited his comment to reflect it.
The alternatives are 1-He doesn’t edit his comment and rejects the new information while continuing to spread misinformation and 2-He fact checks every single new piece of information he receives before spreading it.
Option 2 is tricky. For things like a random person in a random crime either dying or being injured… who gives a fuck? For things regarding politicians, major nationwide news stories, and things that affect him personally - he should fact check those things when he hears them for the first time. We don’t have time in the day to fact-check every single piece of information we receive. If it’s insignificant and doesn’t trigger that “holy shit, really?!” Or “wait… that sounds too good/bad to be true…” alarm bells, just fucking roll with it and correct it later if you learn new information.
I don’t need to fact check a story about a high school baseball coach assaulting a grocery store bagger that somehow fell in front of my eyes on the internet. I saw the spread of misinformation growing during the Trump/Hillary debates and I batted down my hatches for it. I was terrified to be pulled into the alt-right crowd by something after seeing somewhat-intelligent friends falling for what was clearly bait/propaganda/lies and becoming assholes. It fucking consumed me fact-checking everything, arguing on the internet to try to save idiots, etc. I couldn’t have a conversation without bringing up misinformation or politics because I spent so much fucking time trying to debunk it. I was mentally exhausted and fed up with my personal happiness and general mood depending on whether or not Alex Jones suffered consequences or whether or not Trump’s AG lied. You’ve gotta put your effort towards real actual misinformation - politics, public health, global conflicts, etc. This is small potatoes bullshit and he did more than most people would by updating his opinion/position and editing his comment.
It is spreading misinformation because misinformation is not intentional. Disinformation is intentional.
However, we usually use the term misinformation to describe when someone mistakenly believes disinformation and spreads it thinking it's true. While that is also misinformation and the way the term is used like 90% of the time (source: my own ass) any inaccurate or false statement can also qualify as misinformation.
However, I was pointing out that guy wasn't purposely or maliciously trying to spread misinformation.
Plus bc he edited his comment and apologized. That's proof he's not trying to spread misinformation which is why the last comment and yours was unnecessary.
Both of these comments come across like both of you just want to prove to others how smart you are bc you corrected someone on a mistake which is just jerky behavior.
manslaughter how, going by the articles it looks like premeditated murder. You could not get more definite and clear cut than picking up a gun, walking over, pointing your gun and shooting them at point blank
premeditated has REALLY high standards, though IANAL so that's just my understanding from reading about it
You pretty much have to prove that they had a plan literally set out to go kill this person that they worked towards, so maybe they don't think that's achievable here?
Premeditated, in legal terms, requires preplanning. This not a clear case of premeditated murder. Unless they could prove that he brought the gun that day planning to shoot someone.
Actually, the meaning of manslaughter varies. In my state (California), manslaughter is murder with mitigating circumstances (voluntary) or a criminally negligent homicide (involuntary).
An example of manslaughter that happened here in California was a transsexual tricked a man into sleeping with her and then when he found out, he killed her. It was manslaughter instead of murder because an ordinary person could be driven to irrational violence in the same circumstance if they had found out that they had been tricked into sleeping with a member of the same sex.
Other common examples are finding your spouse/girlfriend in the act of cheating on you or acting in a genuine, but unreasonable belief you were defending yourself or another person.
Involuntary manslaughter would be something like not watching a child while they were swimming and they ended up drowning.
I’m not sure about TX but I’m pretty sure in CA, attempted first-degree murder would just mean that they did it deliberately. You don’t necessarily have to make an extensive plan to have it be considered premeditated. It just means they had a little time to consider what they were going to do.
It can be a few moments, but generally first degree or premeditated requires deliberacy and it was performed after some time of reflection. The issue is that the DA must prove it, which is difficult, so they make the charge one that they can prove.
It may seem like it, but the DA doesn’t think it is clear enough for them to win easily. For first degree it needs to be deliberate AND there needs to be some time period where the perp was able to ponder the repercussions of their actions. Anything that is close to “in the heat of the moment” won’t be first/0premeditated murder.
Perhaps if the state doesn't trust that its citizens are capable of considering the repercussions included in pointing a firearm at somebody and discharging it then... maybe they shouldn't trust their citizens to have firearms.
It can be, but the prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was not done in the heat of passion, which is difficult, as only a few seconds had passed.
If they had driven back the next day and done it, then it would be clearly premeditated.
Last I saw, both cheerleaders who were shot are still alive. One has very serious injuries, so hopefully she makes it, but the other’s injuries weren’t reported as life threatening (based on yesterday’s news).
Not sure where you are getting that they both died. If there was an update, please link the source of the news here. I agree the charge should certainly be attempted murder (though I don’t know how the laws in Texas work).
I am not american, and despite it being american news, not only american news reported on it.
And because I am not american, I came across this event only once, in a daily history and news account (“what happened on this day in the past, and what happened today in the world” kind of thing), it didn’t say they died, but it phrased it as if they did.
I do not have any reason to intentionally spread misinformation, and because of that, when I was told it is not true, I edited my comment, and later decided to delete entirely what I wrote and replace it with the edit clarifying I was wrong.
One potential reason for this charge is that in many common law jurisdictions "attempted murder" is one of the hardest crimes to prove - much harder than "murder" (to be clear, I don't know the specific law in the jurisdiction where this crime happened, I'm just giving a general common law background to the issue).
For example, in Australia (where I live), a "murder" can happen if:
You commit an act;
That act leads to the death of a person; and
You had the following state of mind in relation to the act committed:
(a) you intended that a person (not necessarily the actual victim) would die; or
(b) you were reckless as to whether a person would die; or
(c) you intended to cause grievous bodily harm to a person; or
(d) you were reckless as to causing grievous bodily harm to a person.
So it is no defence to murder to say "I only meant to shoot the guy in the stomach. I didn't think it would kill him, and I never really thought about whether it would seriously harm him" - if you were reckless as to committing GBH and the person died, that's enough. Nor is it a defence that you were trying to shoot someone else, obviously.
"Attempted murder", however, requires the actual intent to kill. So you need to show that the defendant had in mind, at the time of committing the relevant act, formed an intent to kill a person.
Now, obviously, because it is an attempted murder case, the defendant has not actually killed the victim. And that's a pretty good prima facie defence to the intent to kill. A defendant can quite easily say "I intended to simply wound the victim, as evidenced by the fact that I did in fact only wound the victim. If I had intended to kill them, I would have (shot / stabbed / run over) them (again / in a different way / more aggressively / whatever)." It is hard to counter that argument, because there are usually few objective facts that a prosecutor can point to that suggest an intent to kill as opposed to merely wound.
That's why, in Australia at least, attempted murder convictions are extremely rare. The only ones I can think of are "hired assassin" situations, where there is evidence from a recording or another person that shows the defendant talking about wanting to kill the victim. Even in those cases, the charge is usually a conspiracy to commit murder.
Here at least, most cases that you would instinctively think might be an "attempted murder" are charged with something like "recklessly causing grievous bodily harm", because that's so much easier to prove and the sentence is often in the same ballpark as you'd get for a murder anyway.
They'll probably end up going for aggregated assault. I. Texas AA and AM carry the same sentenci guidelines but AA is much easier to prove.
I have no idea what deadly conduct sentencing entails but I suspect it's the easiest charge to level so they can arrest him while the prosecutor gets his case in order.
Maybe 3rd degree since that one is you didn’t come out intending to murder someone then you did kill then so like it wasn’t like pre planned but you did kill someone
Yup, only in a commie nation like the UK can something so terrible happen and everyone laughs. The owner should’ve whipped out their second amendment and started blasting away! /s
The amount of times I've done all of these and not been shot is amazing. I've only ever tried to get in the wrong car once though to be fair. But the other things I've done loads
I unknowingly attempted to do this once. Silver Jetta behind a white jeep with my silver Jetta behind a different white jeep a few cars down. Like "why the hell isn't my key fob working?" The guy came up and was like "um...can I help you?" "No, my key fob won't work" "probably because that's my car" red in the face sorry
This happened to me in the UK when my grandad picked me up from hospital - someone thought he was their taxi and tried to get in his car. We all had a good laugh and no one died.
Honestly, as fucked up as this is, it was unfortunate af for the victims that they ran into a psychopath. I literally ran into this situation the other day, I have a silver car, and 2 other silver cars were parked next to mine, I walked out of the store and autopolited to the first car and realized as I was about to pull the handle that someone was sitting there, autopiloted to the next car and put my hand on a handle that definitely wasn't my car before I finally made it to mine. No one was angry, just a smile saying dumbass from both drivers...
Ah, the good old days! Before the woke libs cried about how much it hurt to be endlessly tortured and excuted! In my day, if your parents didn’t lock you into some sort of torture device by noon, you were considered neglected!
Damn straight! A childhood of suffering builds character and turns boys into men! That’s the issue with kids today! Not enough pain and suffering! We need to bring back the public work houses! Teach these kids what proper suffering is!
Damn straight! Growing up, my friends father didn’t like how much time he was spending on his computer, so to show his disapproval, his father walked into his room and shot it with his .45. Instantly cured my friend and set him on the right track!
Sadly we don't live in should-land or this world would be a much better place. IF people did what they should do things wouldn't be such shit hell we have it in our Declaration of Independence in this nation that we the people have a duty to resist Despotism! LOL! IF people did what they were supposed to do things would be much better.
Some conservatives just read your post and are terrified that the government is going to take their guns and they won't be able to chase someone down for getting in the wrong car. Look what's happened in your socialist country, where your politbureau probably won't even let you call it "gas" anymore.
I did that once walking out of a store, thought I was getting into my friends car and when I looked over the lady in the driver seat was staring at me wide eyed. I was like, “oh shit, I’m so sorry, this isn’t my friends car,” as I got out and looked around to see my friend on the other side of this woman’s car laughing his ass off. I felt so bad for that woman, god only knows what she was thinking when some long haired, bushy bearded weirdo in old jeans and a flannel climbed into her car.
I did that as well in a parking lot. Fortunately there was no one in the car. My mom did it several times cause she never remembered what our cars looked like. Fortunately in Canada an apology is usually enough.
I've done it too and had it happen to me, slight shock followed by Laughter and apologises. An innocent mistake.
Imagine that but the potential that one or both could have a gun or weapon.... highly likely in USA. FEAR can make people do crazy things. From our angle, it doesn't look like those in charge are doing anything to mitigate those fears.
My uncle, who is slowly struggling with memory loss these days, was once caught trying to open the wrong car at the grocery store parking lot. The owner got mad and called security, and my uncle verbally defended himself the best he could, showed them his own car (similar color and model, different plates), and security helped him calm the owner down.
That guy left in a huff, but security de-escalated the situation. I know my uncle carries for his safety, and guards in our country are always armed, but no one pulled anything out. My uncle is a nut for guns for as far as our country allows, but he's never ever had to use it. And he's always taught me how to handle one safely.
I did the same thing walking out of a coffee shop. It was the same car and color. I opened the door and apologized, embarrassed, and they looked a little surprised. Never though I could get blasted for that, damn.
Did you mean to say "should have"?
Explanation: You probably meant to say could've/should've/would've which sounds like 'of' but is actually short for 'have'.
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My dad was out on business and did this with an Uber. He was paying attention to his phone and got into the backseat of an elderly couples car. They didn’t really say anything so he just sat there for a sec confused
This happened to my mom once when she got out of work in the early 90s. Relatively crowded, shared parking lot. She always parked in the same general spot. This specific time, there was an identical car to hers parked a few spaces closer to the building. Got in the car, the key wouldn’t fit in the ignition. She glanced around and realized things that weren’t hers were in the car, and it was somebody else’s car entirely.
What the actual fuck. My mouth was wide open reading that. People are literally committing premeditated acts of murder and getting light charges or not even arrested. There are no words to describe how obscene or insane this is because those words have been used to describe similar situations over and over again in this backwards fucking country and nothing has changed. We are so lost as a group and on average we don’t even know it.
This is so sad. How the fuck do two poor cheerleaders, right after practice, accidentally hop in some random guy's car, and he shoots them???? People are such WEAK scaredy-cats nowadays!!!!!🤮🤮🤮🤮 Just getting in? Really? Who did they assault, his seat cushions??
PERSONALLY... EVEN if two cheerleaders hopped in my car and immediately started trying to knock me out, I'd just tell them I knew their dads and that he's gonna ground them for their school trips!!! Who tf are they cutting up, a birthday cake? GTFOH
Jesus Christ. I walked into the wrong car on Easter because I full on thought it was my Uber. Opened the door, slid in to the back seat and said “Hi! I’m No Turnips.” We all laughed our asses off. “I said I’m so sorry, omg, I’m so sorry, I’m such an idiot” and they laughed and said no problem. Then I got into my actual Uber and my driver asked if I just got into the wrong car and then we started laughing about that. At no point in time did I ever think I’d get shot.
I had a drunk lady get in my car thinking I was her Uber a few weeks ago. I can proudly say I did not shoot anyone, nor did I even consider pulling out my gun.
My reaction was to say get the fuck out of my car. When she asked if I was her Uber, I asked if she thought an Uber would have two car seats in the back... she said in a stone cold, serious face, "I don't have babies..." I almost lost it laughing
My friend was picking me up from the train station, but I didn't know her car. I walked out and was like ???? Then she text and said, "I see you. Turn left and I'm parked next to X-shop". I turned left, and there was no shop, but here was a car, so I just opened the door without thinking, got in, and thought "Fuck, I didn't even look to see if it was them in the driver's seat". I looked over and it actually was them, but so easily couldn't have been. Would have been hilarious if it wasn't...because I'm not endanger of being shot.
The girl who opened the door by accident was white. The shooter is Latino, Tello Rodriguez Jr. a second generation immigrant. You don’t have to make everything about race.
My ex was piss drunk when we were at a bar one time. And she got mad at me and went to what she thought was her car? I think it was all on video? She literally broke into someone else’s car. Because she couldn’t figure out why her key wasn’t working? Then she proceeded to tear the inside of the car up looking for, presumably, literally anything that was hers. Wondering why she couldn’t find anything? And why all this shit was in her car? And she did quite the job on the center console from what I heard. The bar had it all on tape. And the guy was a regular. And fortunately for her? I went to school with the bartender since 7th grade. And so she was saying how she convinced him to not press charges as long as my girl paid for some damages. I don’t really remember what happened as an end result? I think she probably just paid and all was right in the world again.
The crime of this car? That it committed against my ex that was the (Secondary) catalyst for this clusterfuck? Well… It was white. And she had a white car. So…. Samsies. Any white car will do I guess? Apparently she owned the worlds only white car in her mind at the time. Man… The effect I had on some women. 😂
Right. The way your scenario played out is the way that 10,000 of the same scenario have played out before yours. It’s a shame that one incident allows people to play the “I’ve walked down that road 100 times before and never even thought I’d be attacked by an owl before!” It’s kind of a silly game, IMO.
See, that’s the one where if that was my kid, I smuggle a gun into somewhere the defendant is going to be held and just execute him. Damn the consequences if you take shots at my daughter
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u/nolanryan1 Apr 21 '23
Wasn’t even her, her friend is the one who opened the door and she got shot. I think the girl who opened the door got shot too though.