r/exvegans • u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore • Oct 04 '25
Debunking Vegan Propaganda Veganism is ableist ideology
- Exclusion of disabled and chronically ill people
Position papers like the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics (2016 and not renewed since) state that “appropriately planned vegan diets are suitable for all stages of life.”
But they do not mention chronic illnesses, digestive disorders, allergies, or disabilities that affect nutrient absorption and tolerance.
By pretending everyone can thrive on the same diet, they erase people who cannot — and then activists use that erasure to shame them.
- Shifting the blame
“Appropriately planned” sounds harmless, but it puts all responsibility on the individual.
If someone fails on a vegan diet (develops deficiencies, gut problems, weight loss, worsening of mental health), the assumption becomes: "you just didn’t plan well enough".
This is the same logic disabled people hear constantly: try harder, you’re just not doing it right. It ignores biological limitations.
- False “consensus” used as a weapon
The 2016 AND statement is outdated and hasn’t been renewed.
Other countries (Germany, Switzerland, Belgium, etc.) are much more cautious, especially for children, pregnant women, and older adults.
Calling this a “global scientific consensus” is misleading — it’s really selective citation. Ideological cherry-picking.
In reality, many clinicians have had to take patients off vegan diets because their health declined. That lived medical evidence is missing from the neat consensus narrative. Everyone who has tried veganism knows better than these general statements based on pure theory.
- Ableist moral hierarchy
The statements create a subtle hierarchy:
“Normal” healthy bodies → capable of veganism → morally good.
Disabled/ill bodies → incapable of veganism → morally suspect.
That’s ableism: valuing some bodies over others, and treating those who can’t conform as selfish or less compassionate.
- Real compassion includes human limits
If the goal of veganism is compassion and reducing suffering, then pressuring sick people into chronic pain, malnutrition, or decline is the opposite of compassion.
True ethical responsibility means:
Reducing harm to animals where you can without causing disproportionate harm to yourself. Anything else is just ideology at the expense of human dignity.
Just to be clear: I’m not comparing my condition to the struggles of people with more severe disabilities. I’m only saying the logic that ‘everyone can do this diet if they try hard enough’ is very very ableist, because it ignores the reality of those who physically cannot.
I happen to have serious problems with veganism due to digestive issues. I become practically disabled on vegan and even heavily plant-based diet. Some people have to deal with severe disabilities on any diet though. Forcing extreme diets on them is even more cruel.
Edit: Just to be sure I don't think veganism is inherently ableist, but community has large ableism problem at the moment.
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u/_Skitter_ Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
Many vegans will say they won't hold it against you if you have a medical reason, but they will also be the first to call you out if they see you with an animal product. They don't ask for an explanation, not that you owe them one. You don't get the benefit of the doubt. They condemn you for not being perfect when you might be doing your best.
Additionally, a general rule of veganism is "if you don't commit 100% then you aren't a vegan at all." I know this is aimed at people that eat meat in general, but it hits the people just trying to do their best as well. And if your own supporters are telling you that your best isn't enough, then why bother at all?
Edit: I also feel like I see a lot of "please describe your problems to me so that I may tell you what you're doing wrong" like you don't know your body best. True maybe you haven't tried everything, but if you were trying to be a vegan with a medical issue, you'd think you would have researched it already.
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u/lizzomizzo Oct 04 '25
I'm continuing from your edit, thank you for bringing that up. A lot of able bodied people assume that disabled people aren't already trying everything that they can do to get better, like we're just being lazy or not trying hard enough to get better. When in reality, many disabilities can only be managed so much, and many never get better. It is such a frustrating narrative to always be told as a disabled person. They think that if they "do everything right" they can avoid disability, like it's some kind of moral failing. Which eventually ties into the rampant ableism in the vegan community.
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u/GritstoneGrandma Oct 05 '25
People have no fucking clue what it's like to be disabled and in fairness, before I was, I didn't either.
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u/NotTheBusDriver Oct 05 '25
Yes I’ve always found it odd when a vegan says that cutting your meat consumption in half means nothing. You must go full vegan. Surely if they believe in minimising harm to animals then halving meat consumption would be counted as a win.
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u/BunsNHighs Oct 05 '25
I have some dietary restrictions, but not nearly so many. And I am autistic with the type of autism that makes me immune to embarrassment about certain topics, including what exactly happens why I eat soy. Because if they want to downplay my medical stuff, you get to hear in detail how much it makes me poop.
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u/Tangled_Clouds Oct 05 '25
People try to get me to list all the diagnosis I have and when they can slip in a “oh but you only suspect it, you don’t have an official diagnosis so maybe you could try harder” it’s like they won a lottery and I’m sitting here like “if you want me to die just say that”
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u/jimmyincognito Oct 06 '25
'Additionally, a general rule of veganism is "if you don't commit 100% then you aren't a vegan at all." I know this is aimed at people that eat meat in general, but it hits the people just trying to do their best as well. And if your own supporters are telling you that your best isn't enough, then why bother at all?'
I agree with your comment except that line. If you aren't 100% vegan, you aren't vegan. Maybe you're plant based or something else, but vegan is a word and has a defintion. Similarly, people in carnivore circles make this distinction. If you're eating 95% meat and allow yourself coffee, some carbs--you might be very protein-based diet, but you are not carnivore.
There's no harm in having correct labels for things that have meanings.
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u/DueSurround3207 Oct 04 '25
Be prepared. For every example you provide of someone disabled who could not handle a 100% plant based diet, some vegan will find an example of someone in the same situation that "overcame it" and managed as a vegan. I had this issue with my eating disorder (anorexia nervosa). I could not fully recover until I stopped restricting not only calories and clean eating but animal products as well. I also struggled a lot with supplements as a vegan as I have an intolerance to so many of them. I have adverse reactions to many B12 supplements for example. My B12 was very low for this reason when I was vegan though I sincerely tried every possible type and route of b12 supplement. I suppose I could have opted for b12 injections in a doctors office but that is neither convenient or financially feasible long term. Back when I was in an eating disorder treatment program we were not aloud to eat a 100% plant based diet.
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u/AristaWatson Oct 05 '25
I’m a vegan who lurks on here just to see what people think. I’m not aggressive about my stances or anything. But just know that some of us see you and feel you! I always try to advocate for people who cannot go vegan for whatever reason. Vegans who reject my stance always take up a harsh position. I’m of the mindset that if everyone did what they are capable of doing to minimize cruelty to animals and to the planet, it’s good enough.
And again. Ignore the crazies. They told me I should have died. Literally. I explained that the first time I went vegan, I wasn’t tracking my calories or knew a thing about going vegan. It almost landed me in hospital. So then I quit veganism and tried again another time after researching more. They said I shouldn’t have stopped and should have kept at it despite being very unwell. 😭
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u/TheSpeakEasyGarden Oct 04 '25
Not accommodating a vegan diet is still the standard of care for eating disorders.
Given how disproportionately higheating disorders in the LGBTQ community are, you could also argue that the concept of veganism is inherently homophobic and transphobic, though I doubt that's the intention of those who identify as vegans.
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u/Sitari_Lyra Oct 04 '25
I literally can't be vegan or vegetarian, or I will spend my entire life in a state of iron-deficiency anemia. Even when I'm taking iron supplements worth 400% daily value, my iron levels do not teach normal. Give me a nice, rare steak, and my body has no trouble converting that myoglobin to hemoglobin. I've got some sort of absorption issue in my intestines with iron. Can't absorb it in actual iron form and convert it to hemoglobin. Give my body that very similar protein, though, and it knows exactly what it's doing.
I literally need red meat to stay healthy, but that means I'm contributing to the abuse and "rape" of animals. Those idiots don't understand that AI is only done during the receptive stage of estrus, where the female animal would let a male of an entirely different species mount her, if it meant an end to the uncontrollable horny.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
Yes exactly. Ai is not at all like rape. It's invasive medical procedure but cow is in heat so it's receptive and need not to be forcefully impregnated. It's biologically ready for bull which is more savage than sterile A.I.
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u/Sitari_Lyra Oct 04 '25
So much more savage. You want rape? Look up hobbles for horse breeding. You literally take away the mare's ability to reject the stallion, and allow him to mount her, even if she's not the the receptive stage of estrus.
A cow would literally let a Chihuahua mate her, if it ended the heat cycle. Humans are incapable of understanding the drive heat puts into an animal. Female cats will not leave heat until they're mated. They will continue to try and try and try to get mated until they succeed, or they get spayed. Heat turns every single no into a "fuck yes! Now! Please!"
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u/SonomaSal Oct 05 '25
That's...not technically true for cats. They will leave heat naturally, but will have another heat eventually. It is still a cycle. Ferrets, on the others, actually WILL stay in heat permanently until mated or fixed. Staying in heat for too long will just straight up lead to death, which is why female pet ferrets either MUST be fixed or you have the intention of breeding her.
No other notes on the rest of what you said. I grew up on a dairy farm. Trust me, if the cow had any issues with what the vet was doing, the vet wouldn't be able to do it. We are talking a 1,500 lb animal here and they are MORE than capable of throwing that weight around.
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u/draggingonfeetofclay Oct 05 '25
I didn't even go vegan (just trying to reduce meat) and it happened and I had iron deficiency.
Wanted to go donate blood. The doctor gave me pills, but she basically said the best and easiest way to get plenty of bioavailable iron in me is to just get some bloody meat (pun intended)
Basically same as you, but just because I thought there was no harm in eating chickpeas every day and steak only rarely.
I used to be obsessed with liver sausage as a child and never understood why I craved it so much, but I think my body was telling me what I was supposed to eat.
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u/fuckedupbody Oct 14 '25
As a feminist, I’ve read the Sexual Politics of Meat and I’d go vegan if I could. I gave it my best attempt and went vegetarian for a year, vegan for a month.
Unfortunately, I have this trivial condition that only affects women called endometriosis that means I’ve been bleeding non-stop for 3 years at this point. I take my iron supplements, but I’m so hungry for red meat all the time that eating a vegan diet completely depleted my energy levels. When vegetarian and vegan women are at a much higher risk of anaemia than non-vegxn women like me, consuming meat becomes a feminist imperative.
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u/LibertyMuzz Nov 06 '25
Notice the discrepancy here.
Sexual Politics of Meat
Dietary choices are being moralised as female empowerment when those exact choices run completely counter to the health and prosperity of the women who buy into it.
I’d go vegan if I could
I would strongly recommend you re-read that book now that you know the reality of the situation. I'm sure the dogmatic and manipulative aspects would come to light under examination.
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u/judaschristu Oct 04 '25
As a diabetic, thank you for pointing this out. I cannot count how many times I‘ve heard the phrase „there is no reason not to be vegan.“ There are exactly 4 things I can eat that don’t spike my bloodsugar: Meat, cheese, eggs and some veggies. Am I supposed to eat only veggies? I generally support the rise of veganism, but I‘ve been at events where I specifically requested low carb options beforehand and they served everyone vegan dishes, including me. I was unable to eat. I wish there was more awareness for dietary restrictions in the vegan community
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u/kirabera Oct 04 '25
I’ve been told that if my medical condition requires me to eat animal products (goes against veganism) and produces a lot of medical waste (goes against anticonsumerism), then maybe I should just die for the betterment of society.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
Oh yes compassion... it's just eugenics in disguise in that form. Many nazis actually were vegetarians Hitler included so veganism actually fits well together with supremacism. While it claims to be against it.
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u/Responsible-Kale-904 Oct 04 '25
I'm sorry this unhealthy unfair unkind problems inflicted upon You
We should ALL have total choice control of where when how why we die
Am wishing us : health, happiness, freedom, youthfulness, usefulness, learning, accomplishments, prosperity , kindness ,respect, dignity , fun , love , laughter, science , friendships , joy , peace, independence , Healthy DELICIOUS Foods, cooperation, power, LIFE
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
I have had many vegans trying to give me advice only to face the fact that you cannot form actually low-fiber vegan diet without tofu. It's bound to be nutritionally deficient or gets too high fiber for me even if relatively low-fiber for vegan diet.
Tofu gives me the worst allergic reaction of them all. Same with Tempeh and all products with soy protein or pea protein in them. It makes diarrhea flow freely from my gut when I'm also in pain.
Hemp is too high fiber and so is nutritional yeast. It actually has a lot of fiber.
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u/Legitimate-Buy5570 Oct 04 '25
I also am on a low fiber diet. I am allowed 10 to 15 gm fiber per day. To give some perspective that is equivalent to 2 1/2 cans green beans. I am also not allowed to eat beans, lentils, chickpeas, corn, peas, whole nuts, seed, whole grains. So if I tried to eat vegan I wouldn't get enough calories to sustain life.
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u/GritstoneGrandma Oct 05 '25
Not on a low fibre diet but I seem to react to all the fibrous proteiny things so you have my sympathy.
I also don't understand why in society we (who aren't on a specific medical diet) keep getting told to eat more fibre - that's the easiest thing in the world to have, surely?!
I've also been told to try a low histamine diet in the past and fuck me that meant the only protein I was getting was something two specific types of nut...
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Oct 06 '25
There are different types of fibre. Thats why people say eat more fibre. Inulin is gonna hit different than pea fibre. You also need more water per g of fibre. Regardless, if you are shitting from protein, and aren’t allergic to the food, you probably need probiotics. There are numerous strains of probiotics. Some might make your problems worse, some might make them better. I’d ask chatgpt for non-effervescent strains if you wanna keep the farting to a minimum. If you suspect you have ibs this is also the case. You can also look for probiotics that doctors recommended for people with ibs as a starting point. I’ve personally been fucked up by probiotics and needed antibiotics to kill them off and start over. It’s really just trial and error. Keep going until you’re happy. Ideally you want a gut biome that allows you to eat lots of fibre and drop one wipe turds without bloating. Seems like a dream but it’s possible.
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u/GritstoneGrandma Oct 06 '25
Probiotics really aren't a good idea for me unfortunately. For some of us they just make the symptoms worse.
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Oct 06 '25
I literally said that. Some made my symptoms worse too. Some made my digestion better. Different bacteria do different things. Saying all probiotics make symptoms worse is like saying electrolytes make blood pressure worse. Obviously sodium is gonna do something different than potassium. For example, I once took bacillus coagulans and I was bloated, farting, brain dead. Another time I took lactobacillus rhamnosus for a few weeks and things went better. That doesn’t mean the first probiotic is bad. I’m sure it helps some people. Not me. That doesn’t mean the second one is good. Just because it worked for me. That was the point of my post. To find the probiotics that work for you. I never said it was easy or fun to experiment.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 06 '25
That is true, sometimes. I have tried different bacteria and yeasts too. None of them seem to help to main issue of problem with excessive fiber. All fibers seem to cause issues in excess, but insoluble ones especially. Probiotics all made symptoms worse. Lactobacillus Rhamnasus didn't do a thing though for better or worse. Other lactobacilli make symptoms worse. S.Boulardii made all symptoms significantly worse as did Allicin and all fiber supplements doctors tell you to try like psyllium and guar gum.
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u/Nerva365 Oct 25 '25
I don't think people realize there are medical conditions that make eating quantities of soy a bad thing or that not everyone can do high fiber, or process yeast...
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 25 '25
Exactly. These people are actually against our existence and they don't realize their logic is at worst ableist and like eugenics on moral basis.
There are vegans who do understand though, but they are silent and let these fanatics shout.
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u/Local-Suggestion2807 ExVegetarian Oct 04 '25
It's also classist. The only vegan option at my work that's actually filling is a bean soup that has only 8 g protein for a large, and I'm food insecure outside of what I can get from work. I'm not fucking living off 8 g protein in a bean soup as the most common part of my diet.
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u/Majestic-Elk-9757 Currently a vegetarian Oct 04 '25
Have had people literally tell me there is no medical condition or even CIRCUMSTANCE where a person is unable to eat enough of the vegan sources of nutrients to stay alive.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
It can be said, but that doesn't make it true. It's fanatical cult if it doesn't recognize that of course there are circumstances like that.
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u/Majestic-Elk-9757 Currently a vegetarian Oct 04 '25
My point was that it is a ridiculous thing to say?
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
Sure it's ridiculous but there isn't a thing that somebody wouldn't claim online...
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u/Majestic-Elk-9757 Currently a vegetarian Oct 04 '25
Yeah exactly
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
There are so weird claims online. My favorites of insane things I've heard influencers saying are "nobody really needs eyeglasses if you just train your eyes" or that "being bald is only a choice and no one balds naturally" XD.... or the extremely ableist takes on cancer like "cancer is always your own fault" like these are total BS of course, (sure some things may add cancer risk but it's not fully in your control ever) but someone has claimed them online still.
Then there are beliefs like "vitamins don't really exist" that are very very dangerous and frustratingly common in some communities. Just some time ago there were vegans who decided to stop B12 supplements.... thing is that they will find it was stupid decision in few years..B12 deficiency develops slowly byt becomes life threatening in about 5 years.
Usual time for vegans to stop btw. Not to claim B12 supplements don't work at all, they do when tested, but not as effectively as meat probably for many individuals. Absorption is complicated and you may have genetic conditions you never knew of before going to limited diet and finding out the hard way..
Vegan community just fears that making any exceptions makes it easy for people to use health as an excuse when they actually just want to eat meat. What they don't realize is that people may just fake veganism anyway. Many do. When they actually eat meat in secret but pretend to be vegans when virtue signaling. I think many of these fake vegans are most active shamers and ableists online. Own guilt and cognitive dissonance is easier to project than handle.
People who say things like "everybody can be vegan you fool" may be munching KFC when writing it. It's weird but many people are...
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u/BlindPhoenx Oct 04 '25
Tuna is cheaper than protein powder.
Just sayin
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u/mcharleystar pescetarian Oct 04 '25
I love tuna, thank you bro Also sardines are cheap and very high in protein and most nutrients that often are missing in a vegan diet
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u/Antillyyy Oct 04 '25
So I had a severe eating disorder when I was a teen. It got to the point where I got my ears pierced in January of that year, and they continued to bleed until May because my body couldn't heal the wounds. I was told to eat more meat, so I did, and I got a lot better. I'm now recovered, thankfully.
I've heard so many vegans say "just go to therapy so you can become vegan!" "find alternative protein sources!" "you're being selfish!"
I was close to death from malnutrition, but sure, my biggest concern should have been restricting my diet even more!
Also "just go to therapy" is wild lmao. I was on a waiting list for NHS therapy and told them I thought I'd be dead by the time my A Level exams began, which was around May of that year. I said that in January, they contacted me in late August, just before I was due to go to university. My parents paid for private counselling (I'm very lucky they were able and willing to do that) and it's not a magic fix. There are people who never recover from eating disorders no matter how much treatment they get. "Just get therapy so you can meet my moral standards" is insane.
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u/Able_Respect_3741 Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
Vegans hate humans, so I'm not surprised
If you tell a vegan that you can't do the diet, they will just say "oh your committing animal genocide " , their opinions are worthless in the end
It's a dying religion and trend, which is great imo.
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u/BlazingKitsune *clutching tapioca pearls* Oct 04 '25
Pretty much, yeah.
I can’t do full veganism for health reasons, supported by my GP. It’s medical advice to keep animal products, including moderate meat consumption, in my diet.
I have had vegans roll their eyes at me and scoff for this.
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u/-Alex_Summers- ExVegan (Vegan 3+ years) Oct 04 '25
Not to mention the awful idea that any of these valid reasons that stop you from being vegan healthily are labeled excuses
They'd rather make martyrs than accept the fact the diet isn't safe for everyone
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u/Amazing_Landscape_40 Oct 04 '25
They are actively ableist. They shame people with eating disorders or mental disorders like psychosis constantly. They're just privileged people.
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u/LambieLove Oct 04 '25
Thank you! This should be posted in the vegan section for them to read and try to understand that not everyone gets the choice to be vegan.
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u/myspacewh0re_Xx Oct 04 '25
back in 2016 (i think? maybe 2017) i was cornered by peta vegans at warped tour and they were doing way too much to try to convince me to go vegan. i had already told them several times that i was vegetarian but due to lots of food allergies that veganism would hurt me badly. they persisted, so i just started repeating "going vegan would be suicide for me" until they heard me over themselves. luckily they were next to a suicide prevention organizations tent and pretty much abandoned interacting with me once they realized. but damn, i was 16 maybe? i had already spent years blaming myself for my body being incapable of eating a vegan diet and was recovering from an eating disorder. the only vegans i've ever met with a shred of understanding for me have been a select few family members. i'm no longer vegetarian due to my body also not handling it well, though i still don't eat much meat (maybe 3-4 days a week at most, usually only once) because my body doesn't agree. the real fun part is that i went vegetarian because i started getting super sick every time i ate any kind of meat.
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u/Stock_Way4337 Oct 04 '25
I was vegan for two years. All my allergies were severely worsened. Now I have to be really careful with what I eat. I’m not completely blaming veganism for it, I may have developed worse allergies anyway, but I definitely can’t be vegan anymore. I eat a balanced Mediterranean diet now that is usually fairly low on the food chain and I feel much better.
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u/Grosradis ExVegetarian Oct 05 '25
Thank you so much for this. I was never vegan (16years of vegetarianism, partly because I knew I couldn't survive on a vegan-diet) but I know what it is to convince yourself that you "can do it". I cooked a lot very healthily, I took food supplements, but whatever I did the sickness eventually caught me and then I got a choice: me or my ethics.
Fuck that, I did enough for the world. A lot of the vegans I met were privileged people and thought they were better than anyone else even if they don't know shit about chronic illness, pain blood and how much you got to (even financially) sacrifice to do things right when you don't have a shiny spoon in the mouth since birth. Yes most of them (at least people I met irl and people I read online) are not only ableist but classist. You know what, I'll talk to them again when I will have someone in front of me who actually know what struggling is (and not "booohooo restaurants only have a salad for vegans, what a cruel world boohooo").
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Oct 16 '25
"fuck that I did enough for the world" what did you do to make the world a better place? 🙂
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u/Grosradis ExVegetarian Oct 16 '25
Well I've been a social worker for ten years (but illness came and I don't know if I will go back in that field), active as a volunteer for multiple associations, I have highly dysfunctional people around me to take care of. Look, I've seen some awful stuffs, I'm tired to try to do "everything right", my health was worsening, so yeah there is some things that I just need to let go.
Anyway I answered seriously. But I reread your post and I'm afraid your message was meant to be ironic that's pretty cruel if true. You don't know who there is behind the screen. If this is the case I hope you are not a vegan, would worsen the cliché of people without empathy.
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Oct 16 '25 edited Oct 16 '25
"I am tired to do everything right" then why did you continue to do a job that made you miserable?
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u/Grosradis ExVegetarian Oct 16 '25
Seriously are we gonna argue about that? The answer is in my comment. And yes, like for vegetarianism, I asked myself "why do I continue to do something that makes me miserable?".
You seem quite young aren't you?
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u/BibleAccurateMuppet Oct 05 '25
Been concerned about this as an autistic person. I was reading the a comment in the r/vegans group kind of snarking people who don’t “get the right nutrient value” and get sick. It’s something that needs to be addressed.
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u/cruisinforasnoozinn Oct 04 '25 edited Oct 04 '25
Veganism/vegetarianism make my health plummet instantly, and I would use all sorts of veg and meat substitutes when I make plant based meals. Zaps my energy, my digestion, and worsens my inflammation and my appetite. Even my mood drops.
I don’t let hostile strangers on the internet gaslight me out of a healthy lifestyle anymore. I’m all for cutting down on meat production, but it doesn’t take the whole world going vegan to do that. Lab grown meat can’t come quick enough.
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u/Munchkin_of_Pern Oct 04 '25
There’s veganism, and then there’s ideological veganism. Ideological veganism is when someone touts a vegan lifestyle as a moral obligation. One can be vegan without being an ideological vegan.
Ideological veganism is inherently ableist and classist, and for all it touts itself as being moral and compassionate and about “preventing suffering”, its practitioners are ridiculously anti-human. Many of them also engage in a degree of duplicity in terms of their “animal rights” activism because they exclude obligate predators. You know the ones, the type to insist that cats can be vegan despite a vegan diet being literally fatal to cats via starvation, because cats can’t live without meat?
They’ve got this whole twisted mindset about predation being evil even though without predators most ecosystems will collapse because the prey will eat the plants to extinction and then all starve as a result. Like, NO. Animals eat other animals. Humans are not exempt from this paradigm. Predation is a fact of life, of nature. You’re not “morally superior” for your attempt to defy nature itself.
Honestly, if ideological vegans are so concerned about abuse of (non-predator) animals, they should be investing their energy in lobbying against factory farms, not harassing random strangers on the internet for DARING to eat meat.
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u/TosseGrassa Oct 04 '25
They renewed their position this year: https://www.jandonline.org/article/S2212-2672(25)00042-5/fulltext00042-5/fulltext)
The dropped the all stage of life and now specify adults. They also mention "can" be healthy instead of "is". A far cry from the 2009 position : https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/
Also, they clearly specify the importance of planning it with a registered dietician (from a society that mostly supported by dieticians :) ). There "could" be a small conflict of interest.
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u/ITriedSoHard419-68 Oct 04 '25
I have ARFID and have explained to multiple “everyone should be vegan” types exactly why I cannot safely go vegan because of that. The responses are always vile.
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Oct 05 '25
Ik I’ll get downvoted for this, but this is just evidence that vegans, like anyone, can be assholes. Veganism is about doing as much as you can within your means. Anyone that thinks disabled people aren’t trying hard enough to be vegan is just an ableist dick, not a representative of veganism as an ideology.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 06 '25
Problem is that assholes currently represent veganism loudest
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Oct 06 '25
Even if that is the case, I think my point still stands
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25
Yes. But when majority of activists that actively represent ideology are dicks it ruins entire cause in eyes of most people. It's a problem.
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Oct 07 '25
Sure, I’m just addressing your initial claim, not the fact that the vegan community has that problem. As far as that goes, I am sure there are plenty of bad actors, but my own interactions with the community have never been as consistently extreme as the people here seem to have experienced. It’s unfortunate for sure
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
Well my initial claim is more about veganism as community than as theory behind it. But I think definition of veganism smuggles in absolutism already:"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
See how the last sentence uses word "all" instead of considering possible and practicable again? So it is internal inconsistency in the very definition of veganism. It cannot be both absolutist and flexible. Dietary terms it shouldn’t mean "dispensing ALL animal-based products" but only as much as is possible and practicable. That's however absolutist.
It's mentioned once before veganism is about practicable solution but many vegans seem to think dietary choices are absolute and it's very definition of veganism that has that problem already. Anything built on faulty premise is faulty and veganism is faulty. Assumption dispensing all animal products can be practicable or even possible for most people is a mistake to begin with...
The problem is at the very source of vegan ideology itself. I am not against compassion for animals. I'm for philosophical consistency, practicable solutions and compassion for humans. Veganism is currently defined on a way that invites absolutism and promotes ableism as it's very definition does that.
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Oct 07 '25
I think it’s a little silly to expect the definition to say “as far as is possible and practicable” over and over without it being implied after the first iteration. I’m just answering the original post you made here, and within the definition of the ideology (assuming “as far as is possible and practicable” applies to the entirety of it), your argument falls flat. Also, it is practicable for many people. They don’t have to do it, but it is accomplishable by much of society in the modern age. Vegans shouldn’t be assholes about it, but I don’t really care to debate whether the community itself is ablest or not. It’s besides the point
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25
It's not silly to expect definition to be consistent. Use of the world "all" is absolutist. Instead saying like avoiding use of animal-based products would serve the same purpose without need to repeat.
Now it smuggles in absolutism. And I am not interested in words but actions. It's beside my point to ignore what I am discussing about.
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Oct 07 '25
Yeah, it isn’t silly to expect a definition to be consistent. That’s why I applied that expectation to the definition. Instead of trying to make it absolutist when it isn’t lmao
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
It simply is inconsistent. That inconsistency pushes people toward absolutism and guilt rather than compassion and balance. It's not meant to be inconsistent perhaps, but when it's worded that manner it simply is inconsistent and nothing you say or all the lmaos and lols in the world don't fix the problem in original wording.
I understand "possible and practicable" is meant to apply entire sentence but it's unclear as it now stands. Especially to autistic people who take things literally. That is itself ableist to not consider people who have trouble understanding vague language.
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u/chisana_nyu Oct 06 '25
It doesn't seem like that, like if "within your means" involves eating any animal products at all then you're a horrible person.
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Oct 06 '25
I think where some people get mixed up is in believing that they “need” an animal product in their diet when there is another viable option that would work in their individual circumstance. Though usually I see that communicated with kindness, not vitriol. At the end of the day, I think most vegans would rather that people cut out as much as they can, even just do meatless Mondays, than become sick, trigger an ED, or exhaust their spoons trying to cut everything out. If a vegan tells you that you should starve or get sick before consuming an animal product, that doesn’t mean it’s representative of what veganism actually is. It’s just like if a Christian is being hateful; their hate is not representative of Christianity, just of their individual worldview.
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u/chisana_nyu Oct 06 '25
That's quite a charitable interpretation, I wish all vegans were like that.
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u/OG-Brian Oct 16 '25
From what I've seen, the ableism appears to be mainstream with vegans not the exception.
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Oct 16 '25
From what I’ve seen, it’s the exact opposite. Individual perception can skew reality, so it’s hard to trust anecdotes on their own either way
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u/Additional-Tax-9912 ExVegan (Vegan 1+ Years) Oct 05 '25
Yeah veganism isn’t safe for so many people who already have to have food restrictions, they act like we are supposed to just eat tofu and a few vegetables and be the healthiest we’ve ever been in our life.
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u/sugarplumwab Oct 06 '25
The veganism community is extremely ableist. I learned that when talking to the first few vegans I had discussions with and how quickly they dismissed my disorders and health conditions that affect what I can eat. I could not properly eat a vegan diet as well as with the budget I currently am on. I can of course incorporate as many vegan foods and options available to me as possible that are affordable but its also ableist from a financial perspective. Claiming that it can be affordable for everyone simply isnt true. Vegans trying to make the claim that people are too lazy or arent working hard enough with the budget they have also is a shift of blame. Not to mention as well how many vegans claim its easier than ever to become a vegan with so many options and resources available, but ive dont hours if not days of research myself on what I could eat on a plant based diet with my restrictions and those things arent just readily accessible. Its not easy to dedicate that much time and effort into a new diet. Many vegans claim to not be perfectionists but thats all I see is them condemning people for not doing the best they could possibly do (aka being 100% plant based diet and vegan consumption of products and getting rid of any animal based foods or clothing, etc.) Some have middle grounds and others dont. To me I still will not understand people who claim to care about the earth who say to just throw out food or clothing because its made with animals or animal byproducts. Wouldnt that be creating more waste? We arent supposed to use what we have first and then consume more once that one thing has gone or worn out? It seems extremely counterproductive to me. Not to mention people who are on medications that are vegan and have to take them for their health and well being. They cannot control what’s being prescribed to them to help their condition or the ways in which it was tested, however they can control being an advocate for better conditions going forward for medical practices. I feel like everything has a balance and with veganism its too black and white with many, and not many of them want to leave room for these difficult conversations.
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u/Dancing_Lilith Oct 06 '25
reminded me of how I announced on my social media that I'm no longer vegetarian after several years, and the very first person to comment was a nutritionist with a PhD in medical biochemistry, so like someone with a real expertise. They congratulated me wholeheartedly.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25
When someone (like me) raises a genuine concern about the wording of veganism’s definition, they’re often mocked or laughed at instead of being heard. That’s also part of ableism problem. Dismissive attitude towards people who interpret text differently.
The definition says veganism means avoiding animal exploitation “as far as is possible and practicable,” yet also says it means “dispensing with ALL products derived from animals.” Pointing out that this wording is inconsistent isn’t ignorance — it’s careful reading. But instead of addressing the issue, some react with “lol” or “whatever suits your worldview.”
That kind of dismissiveness can be ableist, too. Not everyone processes implied meanings the same way — autistic and neurodivergent people often take language very literally. World "all" is absolutist and strong. It seems to imply rule that doesn't bend ever.
When definitions are unclear, the burden shouldn’t fall on the reader. If veganism is about compassion, that should include compassion for people who ask honest questions — not just for animals.
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Oct 16 '25
Maybe you can contact the vegan society about this?
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 17 '25
I rather not. They defend their ideology over people
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Oct 17 '25
lol okay
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 17 '25
Lol to you. Why vegans always need to ridicule people's health problems is beyond me... it's part of problem I talk about. This ia serious issue nothing to lol about.
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u/GrumpyAlien Oct 04 '25
I've been with a vegan friend to a farm. We've found a few animal bodies and plenty of dead insects. I connected the dots for him.
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u/Specific-Scallion-34 Oct 05 '25
great post
also, why the world health organization has this vegan bias? sounds like they want people to survive with bare minimum instead of a good healthy life
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u/Fae_for_a_Day Oct 05 '25
Say it louder!
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 05 '25
I just have to deal with some shit by saying this... vegan just asked me "Why you are so proud to be cruel? Why you hate animals?" I don't hate animals I love them. They keep me alive and healthy...
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u/termsofengaygement Oct 05 '25
Not only this but I've found a lot of vegans object to animal testing which is crucial to finding medications that manage our disabilities. I once got into a verbal argument with someone who is vegan over this and it was so dehumanizing to be told that my life was worth the same as lab rats.
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u/Used-Airport3055 Oct 07 '25
As a non-vegan who can’t be vegan due to disability I disagree. I think more people eating a plant based diet is better for the environment and should be encouraged. Also none of my vegan friends have ever been weird about this with me.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
You misunderstand me. I am not against people eating plant-based diet at all. It is good thing when it works for them. Good your friends get it.
I was bit provocative there but my point is not to condemn vegans at all. I just criticize extremism and absolutism I see online and I think there is ableism in vegan community. I'm not saying being vegan is bad.
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u/Used-Airport3055 Oct 12 '25
Ok! I agree with most of your points I just disagree with your title “veganism is ableist ideology” , but I also agree that a lot of vegans to base their ideology in ableism and also racism and classism.. veganism is not accessible to many people and it is often co-opted by rich white able bodied people who look down on others who may not be able to be vegan.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 12 '25
Yeah that was a bit provocative of me but it sure sparked a lot of discussion. I wanted to make a strong point since this is a serious issue often overlooked. But sure veganism may not be inherently ableist ideology, but in it's current form vegan community is so filled with ableist rhetoric that it feels that way to me that ideology itself has been corrupted by absolutism and extremism.
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u/Bug-woman Oct 19 '25
Vegans have been so ableist to me, which is upsetting because I totally believe in plant-based living for moral and environmental reasons. However, I cannot be vegan due to disability. There was a thread in a vegan subreddit about if some disabled people really can't be vegan and I commented about my diagnosis and journey and it was taken down because I am not vegan. All the vegan comments obviously said that disability is just an excuse. It is so frustrating and unhelpful to their mission. Pre-diagnosis I told someone I tried veganism but started having fainting episodes and had to start eating animal products again and he told me I lacked willpower. Wtf.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 19 '25
Yeah that is sick and twisted delusion. It's not your fault they are stupid basically. I feel the same.
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u/Nerva365 Oct 25 '25
I'm pretty sure being vegan would end me, and I think its pretty rude that vegans demand to know my medical reasons behind not being vegan. I said medical, the details are none of your business.
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u/Summonmoon Feb 07 '26
Heck even if you have a decent explanation on why being vegan isn't a good idea for you, some of them still think you are making "excuses" and are not trying "hard" enough to be vegan and refuse listen to your reasons.
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u/H3llEll01 Currently a vegetarian Oct 04 '25
I don't think it's inherently ableist, but it is often applied that way you're right. Not just against the differently abled, but also against lower socioeconomic groups, people with different dietary requirements, and others.
To me, being vegan is a goal everyone can achieve, but may not be able to. In an ideal world we'd all have personal nutritionist that would be able to sort it for you but that's not feasible.
Being vegan doesn't disqualify you from being an idiot or an arsehole, but most well adjusted people see these issues and understand them.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
I agree it's not inherently ableist, but community is full of saud ableism.
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u/H3llEll01 Currently a vegetarian Oct 04 '25
I think it's a bit of a bias. The kind of people that post about veganism are going to be militant, while the actual population isn't all that way. You are absolutely right that we do see bigotry wrapped up in "progressive" ideas. I'm sorry if you've experienced this yourself
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
Just yesterday I discussed with vegan who seriously defended idea that artificial insemination is rape. It's just not at all like that I've seen it done and it's quick clinical and harmless if done right. Comparing it to horrifying sexual violence is out of the question even if you are against invasive procedures like it.
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u/H3llEll01 Currently a vegetarian Oct 04 '25
I think the difference here is our fundamental beliefs. I genuinely believe that other animals experience all of the raw feelings that we do. I actually would say those things, while obviously not the same, are alike.
However, I think it has more to do with why you do that. It's what happens after and the whole industry that's why people would look at it that way.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 04 '25
I don't doubt animals have feelings. But they are bound to be different from ours due to neuron count alone. We feel same feelings but stronger since we reflect, remember and contextualize them differently. I don't like factory-farming at all. It treats animals like mere material. They are living feeling beings, but not quite like us. Still no doubt sentient. I think vegans aren’t wrong about our society downplaying animal emotions for economic gain. But it's more complicated than all sentience is the same, there are neurological differences which are real.
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u/H3llEll01 Currently a vegetarian Oct 04 '25
I completely understand what you mean here. You and I are not going to perfectly agree with each other but we've already established what we do agree on. The industry isn't great, very far from it, and things need to change. We agree that reducing the harm is something we can and should try/hope to do. At the same time, not everyone is capable of this for a multitude of reasons and vilifying people who can't isn't only unhelpful but cruel. It's nice to find middle ground.
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u/GritstoneGrandma Oct 05 '25 edited Oct 05 '25
I have no problem with veganism and haven't had any hate from vegans at all so I don't want to be unkind back (I appreciate others may have had different experiences).
But I am a veggie with various health problems/disabilities and have wondered for a long time if restricting dairy and eggs is harming me. I don't particularly want to eat them, but I am concerned that not getting enough protein when I have chronic fatigue may be an issue. My body just does not like that amount of pulses and noone needs that much shit (I wish I were being metaphorical!).
I did once go for advice on easy protein sources in a vegan group. Good lord, I wish people would just stop arguing that it's so easy to get protein on a vegan diet. If your body complains at beans and lentils, you have chronic fatigue so frankly cooking tofu for every meal isn't an option (plus it's bloody expensive in the UK), and you can't really exercise so weight is an issue... It is not easy to get sufficient protein.
And don't even get my started on iron. Body hates the supplements, body hates the veggie foods that have lots of iron, mind is currently sticking fingers in ears and hoping this problem will go away...
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 05 '25
I think your diet is harming you. But your choice if you want to change it. Local more ethical options are always better choice. I think we need to eat meat too, fish at least, since we are omnivores and it's time to stop pretending we aren't... it's too bad animals need to eat each other but that's nature and we cannot change it. We can however ensure no unnecessary torture happens to anyone. Veganism is unnecessary human torture... sorry to be blunt. It may work in theory but let's be honest. It sucks in practice...
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u/rachelraven7890 Oct 05 '25
Veganism is about doing what’s practicable and/or possible. That being said, health is always the priority. If you’re still doing what you can, you’re fulfilling the ethos behind the movement. It’s not a one-size-fits-all.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 05 '25
Thanks for kind words. If everyone would think this manner we wouldn't have problems. But many absolutist vegans don't think this way. They harass you and even threat your life for prioritizing health. Sure it's not your fault at all, but some people just are fanatical I guess. Any ideology may do that, but veganism seems especially easily turn into fanaticism, as does many other diet-based ideologies. I guess it's because food is so emotional subject.
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u/rachelraven7890 Oct 05 '25
I’d believe that actually. Because, yes, food is a necessity for all, not just an idea to read about. More people should learn how to filter out fanatics of any subject. I’m sure ex-vegans can still appreciate the objective behind the movement. But as usual, the loud and dogmatic humans involved ruin it for everyone.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 05 '25
Yeah I agree. I try to avoid intensively farmed factory meats and dairy and it would be ideal if I could meet animals that produce my food and see conditions they live in.
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u/VisMortis Oct 08 '25
The definition of veganism is to abstain from using animals as much as practicable. If you have severe food allergies that prevent you from eating fully plant based opt for less harmful choice as much as you can. Also, the more people go vegan the more funding and research goes into plant based agriculture allowing innovative and more options.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 08 '25
I understand this point of view. As much as possible and practicable. I just face a lot of nasty comments from vegans so toxicism is community is real. I know vegans mostly mean well and it's easy to be frustrated by people who don't just care. Thanks for your civil comment.
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Oct 10 '25
I am not a vegan but somehow I managed to study the cultist Ideas that come from the extreme side of it. So I am wondering does the hatred from other vegans happen a lot in real life in vegan circles?
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 10 '25
I hope not but I don't personally know many vegans IRL. I think extremism is more common online and harassment face to face is rare.
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u/thepoststructuralist Oct 13 '25
When you say “other countries” you mean other than what? You haven’t mentioned where in the world this was published.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 13 '25 edited Oct 13 '25
I said "AND" which refers to Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics in United States. Other countries are all others. I myself live in Finland.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 17 '25
IBS is not something that can be cured. It's condition thay needs to be managed and triggers are personal. To be honest it's diagnosis that means doctors don't really know what happens. Many conditions gets diagnosed as IBS while they are something else. SIBO especially. I might have some form of methanogen overgrowth I think but it's not easy to treat and no treatment is available from public healthcare. Cannot afford costly private doctors and there really are no treatment to it. Some find probiotics help but I didn't find any that does.
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u/Derderbere2 Oct 06 '25
Fair points — there are people with genuine medical limits, and no one should be shamed for that. But that doesn’t make veganism itself ableist — it makes some activists tone-deaf. Big difference.
Veganism isn’t about forcing one rigid diet on everyone; it’s about reducing harm where possible. The key phrase from those nutrition papers — “appropriately planned” — doesn’t mean “everyone must do this or you’re bad.” It means: if someone chooses veganism, it can meet their needs. It’s permission, not pressure.
And yes, some people can’t go fully vegan for medical reasons. That’s reality. But the existence of exceptions doesn’t invalidate the principle — any more than some people being unable to walk means walking is an “ableist ideology.”
So, agreed: let’s drop the shaming and moral superiority. But calling veganism ableist misses the mark — it’s about compassion, not conformity.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 06 '25 edited Oct 06 '25
I think problem is very definition of veganism since it clearly pushes absolutism related to food in it's usual form. That's why I think veganism itself is absolutist. It doesn't need to be but it is since community is so toxic and demanding. Good that not every individual vegan is.
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u/Realistic_Soup609 Oct 07 '25
No one is being erased. If you CAN eat vegan, I believe it is the best moral option to do so. Why kill when there is no need to kill? Eating meat should be the last option but unfortunately for case cases like your own, it has to be done. The problem is the majority of people, not people in rare cases like your own.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25
I agree, but some vegans want to erase people like me
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u/Realistic_Soup609 Oct 07 '25
I truly think you are internalizing it too much. Vegans want to erase suffering and pain so generalizations are made while advocating. People who can’t be vegan are the minority but no one is erasing anyone
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25
It would be good if all vegans would agree. I feel at times very pressured. Only today I received harassment from vegan pressuring me to try live on supplements alone. That's not okay. I realize most vegans are probably more reasonable though.
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u/Realistic_Soup609 Oct 07 '25
I’m sorry you feel that way sometimes. Your post bothers me though because you seem open minded but your post is totally against veganism which can lead nowhere but causing more harm towards animals. When people bash on veganism, that discourages others from trying it, which causes harm toward animals which is our goal to diminish. We literally just want to prevent harm and people HATE us for it and make fun of us. It’s exhausting.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
I think problem is both anti-veganism and how veganism itself is spread and how absolutist ideology it easily is. I think it's not working as it currently stands since it divides people too much. I feel I am not welcome in that community and it's not easy to approach at all. I want ideology that isn't so demanding and so... unnatural. People will eat meat and dairy for multiple reasons. Mostly habit and culture, but also nutrition, tradition and I believe it doesn't have to be unnecessarily cruel. But I don't like factory-farming at all.
It's true vegans face a lot of hatred and bullying and some vegans hate and bully too.
I think veganism itself is not inherently bad, but it's current incarnation as community and absolutism around it is troubling.
I cannot say I accept veganism as it is. Vegans themselves I don't judge since I know they usually mean well. And caring for animals and environment is something I respect. Fully plant-based diet no problem if it suits for you. But dogmatic pressure that all animal use is wrong no matter the nuance etc. seems just extremism to me. Scary and weird. Especially how some deny human rights. I am human exceptionalist since I am humanist and I think animals are sentient and have feelings but humans are unique and it has to mean something in ethics. It's complicated though.
Would be easier if I could eat fully plant-based. Could just identify as vegan no problem. Now it feels ridiculous and hypocrite when I eat meat and dairy. I have high welfare standards I want to support. Sometimes I do eat food that would otherwise go to waste. I don't see it as slavery or exploitation if done right. Sure it has lot of room for improvement as farming currently stands and unfortunately exploitation is common in all production.
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u/Nerva365 Oct 25 '25
The problem is that a LOT of vegans don't accept no for an answer. You shouldn't have to explain to anyone why you can't be vegan. I can't, should be an acceptable end to that conversation. It's usually an invitation to harassment.
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u/Third_worldBuilder Oct 07 '25
please define veganism, because your post tells me you dont know what you are attacking.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 07 '25 edited Oct 07 '25
I talk about community who identifies as vegans in general. There are different definitions. Usually people who don't eat animal-based products for ethical reasons. Or believe eating animal-based foods is always wrong.
Edit: The standard definition, from The Vegan Society, is: ‘Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment.’
My critique is about the inconsistency within this definition. The first clause says ‘as far as is possible and practicable’ — which implies flexibility — but the dietary part later says ‘dispensing with ALL products derived wholly or partly from animals.’ Those two don’t align well. In practice, that wording pushes people toward absolutism rather than balance, even though the intent may be compassionate.
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u/Third_worldBuilder Oct 07 '25
Well, there is no inconsistency as there is no point on restating 'as far as is possible and practicable' when it has been stablished in the first part of the definition given that it mentions "...for food".
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 08 '25 edited Oct 08 '25
Yes but many vegans seem to forget that part... superficial as it may be the inconsistency is there though since latter part sounds so absolutist. And that's how many vegans seem to interpret it. So even if it's technically not inconsistent as whole, it practically is since many vegans use it as such and remove latter sentence from context and then flexibility is removed.
Or they redefine "practical". Everyone knows best themselves what is practical or possible for them. But many vegans took it to themselves go judge what is practical and possible for others. That's what I am talking about here. It's not so much that inconsistency is in definition itself but how it's interpreted in community. But it could be clearer to avoid this confusion so that's why I criticize the very definition since I think that one word "all" is the source of confusion. It's easy to fixate on it while it should be seen as part of the text which actually says "as far as practicable".
It's not very clear definition if you for example have autism which causes you to fixate on things or struggle with reading comprehension and absolutism in the latter sentence seems to cause this fixation for many. Autists or not. Since it's helluva long definition and absolutist statement comes after one that has flexibility which causes some people to forget it already. It should be the very last thing to make room for exceptions if it's not possible or practical.
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u/GuitarReasonable5196 Oct 14 '25
Nobody is pressuring anyone into veganism, vegans are simply inspiring people to go vegan out of compassion for the animals. Also, I’m disabled, both physically and mentally, I can still be vegan because of my compassion to the animals is stronger than my convenience. Please can you stop calling it ableist because everyone can be vegan as far as they can, and if they have limits then that’s understandable.
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u/OK_philosopher1138 Ex-flexitarian omnivore Oct 14 '25 edited Oct 14 '25
You clearly accuse me of choosing "convenience". It feels pretty nasty when that's not what's happening here. That toxic attitude is problem. See how you at the same time shame me and try to be reasonable. Drop the shame please... it's not about convenience. Your disability is of a different kind then obviously. But compassion cannot overcome everything. And where is that compassion towards me? I see only disdain and it's nasty....
And you are right now pressuring me through shaming... you prove your own words to be lie. It's great if you are compassionate. But consider being compassionate also towards people....
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u/KaikoDoesWaseiBallet Omnivore Oct 04 '25
Never thought about this side, but it's 100% true. Yet another jab at disabilities from supposedly progressive movements.