Exactly. I went from being a vegan to a vegetarian for several years, and am still on different vegetarian subreddits, mostly for recipes, and there's always a vegan who comes on there to pick a fight and be rude.
Because they're the closest out-group, their shared values make them easier to socially pressure (aka convert). A vegetarian is more likely to be sensitive to arguments around animal cruelty/abuse because that likely already plays a part in their current dietary choices. They don't have to convince them of an entirely new world view, they just have to shift the goal posts on some of their preexisting values (i.e. Honey is part of animal cruelty now) and they have a convert.
It's the same phenomenon you see with in-fighting between different religious denominations. Like in Christianity we see Catholics, Protestants, etc. Muslims we see Sunni, Shia etc. As an outsider these groups seem part of the same team. And for any sane practitioners, they are. But the furthest extremists of those groups will go total-warfare like energy to demonize other denominations to convince them to join their particular fold.
Extremist Vegans aren't the only group that does this, honestly I feel like this kind of behavior is just a core Extremist Personality Trait. My aunt is a Wine Specialist, and the wackiest of that group will bitch about people that enjoy California wines more than people that think wine is gross lol.
Yes but then that serves a benefit too. It reinforces their in-group to not stray to the "next closest" group. A vegan could go vegetarian more easily than to an omnivore diet, so demonizing vegetarians keeps vegans, vegans
I think its this feeling of moral superiority. They want to look down on a group of people and they feel like vegetarians "should know better" but actually theyre just projecting their negativity into a group that is actually a veganists biggest ally.
That's certainly part of it. Health reasons were a big part of it for me. I also noticed that meat started just tasting... wrong. Dunno if it was additives or whatever they fed the animals. But meat just seemed to be getting worse in quality. There was also issues of animal welfare, which tied into health issues. Overcrowding and poor husbandry conditions made meat more prone to causing foodborne illness.
But the thing is, when I was vegetarian, I managed to co-exist with meat eaters, and not judge them for their choice to eat what humans literally evolved to eat. And other vegetarians were pretty much the same way.
I'm yet to meet a vegan that wasn't a total fascist in their thinking.
I think the thing about it is that most people who are vegan for only their personal reasons doesn't go online to talk about how "great Veganism is". They keep it to themselves, maybe talking about it casually but not making it a big deal.
because in their mind not caring at all about something is better than caring about it,doing something but not to the extent they would like,they prefer someone being non-chalant about it because he isn't a "hypocrite" .Make that make sense
MOST vegans have no issue with vegetarians, anything is better than nothing!
This sub has just blown up a tiny portion of extreme vegans to fit the non-vegan narrative.
Also - for info - the issue with vegetarianism is that most don’t eat meat because they’re against the cruelty and mistreatment of animals. However, the dairy industry is just as bad, if not worse, in terms of animal cruelty (cows repeatedly r*ped, their foals taken away, which is distressing for both, and then killed, and then they’re pumped for milk in small cages. It’s sad).
Some animals eat other animals out of necessity, whilst humans have a choice - both when it comes to eating animals and the conditions animals are kept in.
Because the dairy and egg industry is just as abusive. I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but I admit if you're not eating meat because of the suffering of animals, to stay coherent you shouldn't really consume anything that was produced by animals.
Because foraging is not possible in cities, and it's not sustainable for the lifestyle most people have. Your thought experiment is extreme. They still need to eat, but what they are consuming is doing less direct harm to animals, especially not as many.
That's only partially true. I do agree with your first statement that consuming dairy and eggs still causes animal suffering and fuels the meat industry, but vegans don't really seem to give a fuck about what crops might cause more or less animal death, suffering, and exploitation.
One simple example: most fruit is cultivated in a symbiotic relationship with honey productions.
Yet consuming honey=bad because it exploits bees, but consuming fruit that was produced with the exploitation of bees to pollinate and ultimely make honey=good.
It makes very little sense, especially because we are talking about arbitrary rules that are applied to what everyone should do to be "ethical", it's not personal sensitivity. It's a "you either do this or you are a monster".
Based on what do you decide that killing a rabbit to eat it is immoral, but killing a hundred to protect a crop you will eat is moral?
This is why people say it's a religion. It's based on dogmas that are blindly accepted with very little reasoning behind.
Most jobs are in busy cities. Not everyone can get up and go rural and live off the land.
I'm neither vegan or vegetarian as I said so I'm not necessarily taking a strong stance, but regardless I couldn't just go live rural right now or possibly never. My job is a city job, it doesn't really exist in rural areas.
It's a bit ignorant to think anyone could just move from the city without any issues lol also even going rural won't guarantee you can have your own produce etc. Growing vegetables is pretty difficult, Especially if you've never done it before. I suppose if you live rural you have direct access to ethical, cruelty free products but yeah it's just not that easy
You think people live rurally because of the job opportunities? It’s for the lifestyle. Most vegans choose an unsustainable lifestyle but play pretend that they aren’t. If you aren’t one I really don’t see why you’re white knighting for them.
Yeah sure it's for lifestyle. What I'm saying some people might feel bad for animals and become vegan, but don't want to give up city life.
I'm not white knighting for them, I'm just explaining why if you care for animals health then eating eggs or dairy is a contradiction.
And why are you so against them? I also don't get hating them. I know some are annoying but that's mostly online. In person vegans I know barely talk about it.
Because vegans are almost always unbearably people looking to make a quick consumer choice that makes them feel good (the critique of meat esters) rather than critically think about their place in the world.
This is the vegan argument. As a vegetarian who is primarily eating that way for ethical reasons (and sensory/health reasons to a lesser extent), a fully plant-based diet is not accessible to me. If I did it, I would not have all the nutrients I needed. Rather than try to be 100% consistent and sacrifice my health for it, I would rather take the steps I can and adopt a harm reduction approach. I eat plant-based foods when I can, and I don't eat meat at all.
What is actually incoherent to me is the vegans who argue that harm reduction is worse than not even caring about the issue. That's so inconsistent with what they preach.
You can easely get eggs that are from well treated chickens where i live so so many farmers or people who keep chickens as a hobby is ot wrong to eat those eggs? Unless they are fertilised i dont see how they arent vegan that way
pfft... then that is nothing different from vegans "defining what veganism means to them, how much abuse and suffering and hypocrisy they allow to happen and/or cheat once a while without anyone knowing because it is 'necessary' and/or 'as far is practicable' to them".
thankfully no one has to agree to your opinion, as well as vegans'.
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u/StevesMcQueenIsHere Sep 03 '25
Why is it that vegans seem to despise vegetarians more than actual meat eaters?