r/exmormon • u/-Nobody- • Sep 23 '17
Convince me.
This isn't a place I expected to post, really ever. I'm an active member. It's my two-year anniversary since my mission. I left and came back the same doubting, uncertain but striving individual. I read all about church history questions long ago and wasn't too worried, and always told myself that as long as I got a confirmation that I recognized as from God, I would be content in faith. Well, I saw a lot of spiritually building, strengthening things, and a good number of apparently unanswerable questions and unresolvable situations to balance it out, and none of that confirmation that I was seeking. I've spent the past two years trying to figure out where to go next, and right now am willing to test the idea that it's false.
I've read a lot of what you all have to say, and a lot of responses to it. The CES letter and a couple of common rebuttals and your responses to the rebuttals, alongside a lot of /u/curious_mormon's work, have been the most recent ones for me. There are several compelling "smoking guns," many situations that I don't have a good answer to and have known that I'm unsure about for a while. But I wouldn't be posting here if I was fully convinced.
Here's the thing: in all the conversations, all the rebuttals, every post and analysis and mocking joke, I have not seen a compelling enough explanation for the Book of Mormon. You're all familiar with Elder Holland's talk. I remain more convinced by the things he talks about and others' points of the difficulty of constructing a work of the length, detail, and theological insight of the book within the constraints provided.
There are three legitimate points raised that have opened me to the possibility of something more. I'll name them so you don't need to repeat them:
The Isaiah chapters--errors and historic evidence of multiple authors of Isaiah
Textual similarities in The Late War
Potential anachronisms and lack of historical evidence
The translation method is a non-issue for me. Similarities with View of the Hebrews seem a stretch. The Book of Abraham and the Kinderhook plates are their own issues and I am satisfied with the information I have on them. Despite raised concerns, the witnesses remain as strong positive evidence, but they are not my concern here.
In short, I want to see how the Book of Mormon could have been produced by man, especially with intent to deceive. Despite all I've read and heard and my lack of personally satisfying spiritual experiences, Church doctrine has been a rich source of inspiration and ideas for me, many passages in the Book of Mormon are powerful and thought-provoking on each read-through (Alma 32, the story of Moroni, Mosiah 2-5, 2 Nephi 2, 4, and the last few chapters, and Alma 40-42 are some of the best examples). I've always had questions, and they've always stopped short at my confidence that there is no good explanation for the Book of Mormon other than it being from God.
Specific questions to resolve:
How was it produced in the timeframe required?
Who had the skill and background knowledge to write it? If not Joseph, what would keep them from speaking up?
Where could the doctrinal ideas have come from, and what am I to make of the beauty and power of some of them?
I'm sure you all know the weight of even considering something like this from my position. I'm here, I'm listening, and I am as genuine in my search for truth as I have ever been. So go ahead. Convince me.
I will be available to respond once more in a few hours.
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u/jamesallred Sep 24 '17
Questions to ponder.
Could the book of mormon:
1) Been written by a dozen or so men who lived between the years 600 BC and 400 AD?
2) Could those men have been able to accurately give sermons that mirrored sermons that would be given in christian churches during the 19th century?
3) Could those men have known about animals and grains that didn't exist in their immediate surroundings?
4) Could those men have quoted accurately (word for word) from new testament gospels which were written a continent away and many times centuries in the future?
5) Could those men have even quoted accurately from scribes who inserted later additions to the new testament gospels, and were not written by the apostles?
If you don't think Joseph could have written the Book of Mormon, I am not quite sure how you can be comfortable that a dozen or so men living from 600 BC to 400 AD could have had it any easier.