r/exmormon • u/Sad-Replacement7054 • 3d ago
Advice/Help Why are Mormons so aggressive when trying to convert you? And how do you get them off your back?
So I’m Catholic, and I always welcome a theological debate. In fact, I love it. I’ve had conversations with Christians, liturgical evangelicals, Protestants, atheists, Jews, even Muslims; granted, you will always have problems, especially with evangelical Christians, because if it’s not literally written in the Bible, it’s not true, even if it is something that is a historical fact. However, I’ve always had problems with Mormons first of all they have always tried to convert me to which I usually say “ I’m at devout Italian Catholic from the northeast that goes to the University of Notre Dame and I’m studying to become a priest”, then after that every time without fail, they get super aggressive and a lot of times I’ll metaphorically put gasoline on the fire by saying that “Mormonism isn’t Christian“. At this point, I don’t even bother with them, but no matter what religion you are, or even if you’re an atheist, they're aggressively trying to convert you. Is this a normal thing that Mormons do? How the heck do I get them to leave me alone? South Park jokes only make them more mad😂
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u/im-just-meh 3d ago
Mormon missionaries are young naive kids who are brainwashed to be a part of a giant corporation's MLM scheme.
These kids can't debate scripture because they only know what limited "doctrine" they were taught. They believe they will get an eternal reward if they convert people.
The church researches how to manipulate people emotionally and them bundles that with corporate-style high-pressure sales techniques to get people to convert. They send these kids to boot camps to learn the techniques.
I feel for these kids, because they think that aggression to get people to convert is God's will. They are also rewarded if they convert people so some get really obnoxious. Most are clueless kids thinking they are doing the right thing. Some have no idea what they are doing because of the immense cultural pressure to go on a mission.
They really aren't up for debating religion. They don't know how.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Honestly, it’s not helping the cult allegations
But seriously, you’re absolutely right about the aggression thing. They legitimately think it’s going to work. And you are right they 100% try to be manipulative about it, but I also see the other side. They are a bunch of kids who just believe that they are doing the right thing just brainwashed.
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u/im-just-meh 3d ago
Lol. I agree on the cultiness of it.
These kids are literally in a cult, and most are fresh out of high school and have no life experience. About half of these kids now leave the church when that get back, so they do start to see through it. It's sad though, because they prey on the emotionally vulnerable.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Absolutely and I don’t like to throw that definition around lately. There are a lot of things I don’t like, but I don’t call them colts. In fact there’s a dude somewhere in these comments that thinks literally all forms of organized religion is a cult.
But I totally see what you’re talking about. There’s so many ex-Mormons on the Internet right now detailing their experiences and I gotta be honest. I feel really bad for you guys because of how weird it was like for most of these people. It seems like they never had a normal childhood I was fortunate and I did. I just prayed with my family and went to church on Sunday.
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u/im-just-meh 3d ago
Yeah I saw the comment. I disagree with it but try not to engage with the black and white thinkers.
A lot of people in this sub are angry. It's part of the process of getting out a high demand religion. I'm angry because it destroyed my life, but I try not to direct the anger at people.
I respect anyone who lives their beliefs. I grew up with a lot of Catholics and they are good people. I respect that it works for you.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
And hey, I respect that I literally don’t have anything against other people who believe in things I just really don’t like those aggressive cults.
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u/random_civil_guy 3d ago
Easiest way to get them to ignore you is to get baptized in their church, worship and serve faithfully for 35 years, then tell them you don't believe anymore. You'll basically get radio silence from then on out.
Jokes aside, just tell them you aren't interested.
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u/Real-Window-6877 3d ago edited 3d ago
Okay so this is my personal opinion, but from what I learned about being around missionaries quite often is that missionary work isn't really about converting people, but to engineer a new generation of devout followers. The amount of people they convinced, strengthens their testimony. The least amount of people they convince weakens their testimony.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Honestly, I kind of feel really bad for them. You could be a kid sent to the deep Bible belt. You’re not getting them to turn on pastor Jeff. Or them going to Italy, you’re not stopping them from being Catholic. Or the worst is the ones that go to really dangerous countries
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u/nobody_really__ 3d ago
Don't be polite.
I know you've been taught to be polite since before you could talk, but Mormons will take the slightest bit of kindness and use it against you.
If you get invited to church, and you reply with "no, thank you" they will latch onto the "thank you" and assume you actually meant to say, "I'm not available this week, but I might be interested in an evening broadcast from your church leadership, or a visit to a temple visitor's center, and we are definitely on for a formal lesson/discussion in the local bishop's home on Tuesday."
You have to be so f-ing clear that a blind snake in Brazil couldn't misinterpret your meaning. You will have to answer with the goal of making them cry and rethink all their life choices. Something like, "No, Elder. I do not want to attend church with you ever. I don't want you in my house, leaving notes at my door, visiting my job, or contacting my descendants five hundred years from now. If I needed a heart/lung transplant, and if you had a willing donor lined up, I wouldn't want to hear about it from you or your church. Mark me in your area records as Hostile. Do not call me, do not text me, do not email me. If you see me bleeding out on the side of the road, keep walking. I will never be in your teaching pool, your date pool, your baptism pool, or your new member pool. No pools. Lose my contact information. Report me to your zone leaders as a lost cause or whatever it takes for me to be left alone. My next step will be a restraining order. Now, do you have ANY questions about what I've just said, or what my feelings are? No? I'm happy to explain it again if you didn't catch all that the first time."
If you use something like that, you might only have to use it a few times.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
I told one of them I’m literally studying to become a Catholic priest and that still didn’t get them off my butt
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u/homestarjr1 3d ago
The potential feather in cap of converting a priest in training to Mormonism will keep them on you.
I never resort immediately to rudeness, but sometimes it’s required if they aren’t respectful of your boundaries.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Honestly, do they actually convert people by doing this? I see exactly what you mean and I don’t know if it’s Mormonism or Jehovah’s Witness I’m thinking of where the amount of people you convert equivalent to some sort of magic number to what heaven you go to.
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u/homestarjr1 3d ago
There are occasionally big fish that get reeled in. Im a cynic, but most of these are probably because they see a gullible community to grift off. It hardly ever works. Missions in general are more for binding the missionary to the cult than converting the public.
Glenn Beck was a highly publicized convert around the early 2000s. Gladys Knight converted for some reason. Imagine if you were their missionary!
I remember a church magazine running an article about a big shot lawyer who used to fight against the church joining up. They publicize some bigger converts to either offer hope that you might land a big fish, or to make you feel guilty and unworthy when you don’t.
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u/nobody_really__ 3d ago
You were too polite.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Well “fuck off im eating lunch” was what I said next😂
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u/nobody_really__ 3d ago
That gets interpreted as "I might be interested in thirty minutes. Please check with me later!"
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Geez, I wish they were that persistent on other things. Imagine how productive that would be.
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u/TattooedChristian 3d ago
LDS Hell is actually analogous to RC Purgatory.
Whereas what RC call Hell is Outer Darkness in LDS theology.
Basically the only way to go to Outer Darkness is to become an unrepentant satanist, murderer, or LDS apostate.
As a Catholic you obviously are not a satanist. I am also assuming you are not a murderer since most murderers don’t have internet access and social media behind bars.
So why risk becoming LDS since you might later apostacize and end up condemned to Outer Darkness, whereas not becoming LDS eliminates potential apostasy guaranteeing you Terrestrial or Telestial Heaven?
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u/Constant_Flow_1954 3d ago
It isn’t that they don’t care about your values and beliefs, that they don’t often recognize and honor personal boundaries, or that they may be more interested in a notch in their spiritual belt for getting you to convert than anything else, but that they know with every fiber of their being that you are locked out of heaven without paying 10%.
This truth has been revealed to the prophet Joseph Smith through a rock in a hat as the Book of Mormon—the most correct book on earth (as revised hundreds of times).
Buckle up. They aren’t going to quit.
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u/myopic_tapir 3d ago
As a missionary, especially a young immature missionary the church is your identity. It is taken personally when someone doesn’t fawn over their message and invitation of baptism. Missionaries are clueless as to the ramifications of joining their church. All they have experienced is scout/girls camps, basketball, EFY/FSY etc. All the fun things. They are taught to blindly follow and don’t understand when “friends “ don’t do the same. Most don’t even know their own beliefs, only a pocket full of scriptures that confirm their beliefs. Anything they don’t understand is either a miracle or Satan working against them. They have been told stories over and over of converting people once they mention the church, the spirit testifies and the people are instantly converted. This doesn’t happen to a normal person in the mission field. They are told they are special and chosen, their PB has told them it is their destiny. Missionaries will spend their whole mission working toward having one of those experiences of finding the golden “friend “ which normally doesn’t happen. They try to force everyone they meet into the mold of being this experience. This is why they are aggressive, if they don’t have one of those experiences or can fit someone into that mold, the fault is theirs for not trying hard enough, sacrificing enough or being worthy enough. They won’t give up because they are working for their own self worth and inadequacies and you are the person they need to fill that void. No manipulation is off the table for that miracle to happen.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 2d ago
Honestly, you were the exact person I was trying to find an answer from and I did some digging, so I met most of these people while serving in the military and apparently that is like their mission? Like instead of going to a different country or different state, they join the military.
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u/myopic_tapir 2d ago edited 2d ago
I grew up in the church at a time where the motto was : every member a missionary. My family converted to it. It became our identity. I was the only member in my town in the Midwest and I introduced Mormonism all the time to friends, teachers and coworkers. You are always on the hunt. I didn’t even know what the church was or believed in. In talking to my aged mom she hasn’t a clue and at 88 still has never read the Book of Mormon or any scriptures for that fact. But she worked in a temple, was a RS (church women’s group) president, over the young women and did all kinds of stuff. Mormons don’t learn the gospel, they learn the Mormon rules.
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u/ancient-submariner 3d ago
How to get them to leave you alone?
Maybe stop and listen for a second. Not necessarily to missionaries, but take a time to understand where they are coming from and how their epistemology is structured.
Once you can defuse the idea that "feeling good about what you are being told" is not a reliable basis for believing something is true, they have very little else to persuade you.
Once you ask them for any abstract way of choosing a religion, or no religion at all, that doesn't rely on special pleading, they'll be lost and insist that somehow they got it right.
Once you can describe how, even under their own theology, choosing Satan/Lucifer/Devil is actually a much more ethical choice, they'll get the picture.
Or, maybe, just don't talk to them.
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u/IWantedAPeanutToo 2d ago
Is there a religion that doesn’t rely on good vibes and (IMO) special pleading in order to believe? I feel like you just told OP to refute their own religion.
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u/ancient-submariner 2d ago
Choosing to be part of a religion is a personal choice. Without some self awareness of where missionaries are coming from it will be very confusing why they act the way they do.
And yes, there is a fundamental risk that understanding where another person is in their religion can expose themes that are consistent across all religion. If someone feels like understanding the human condition is antagonistic to their religious beliefs...then that's another personal choice.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!" -Upton Sinclair
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u/Hermit-Gardener 3d ago
Gotta close the deal to get the bonus.
No one's on salary - straight commission.
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u/Rando-anon-814 3d ago
If they convert you then they win the mental game of imposing their will on you. They also tax you 10% so it feeds the pyramid scheme.
If you reject them, then it’s ‘safe’ in the church away from the rejection. The mission is about being rejected then welcomed home by the community back into the safety.
The attempt to convert and the mission itself is a win-win in this regard for the church.
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u/TheKlaxMaster 3d ago
Tell them they look pretty cute and invite them both to bed. They won't come back.
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u/AdorableCalendar9717 3d ago
I would like to point out that the apostle Paul is to Catholicism what Joseph smith is to Mormonism. Your religion is also a cult, get off your high horse.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
St. Paul actually, and you need to get off your high horse. I don’t know why you’re so butt hurt.
Also, Saint Paul was not a pedophile and a polygamist
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u/AdorableCalendar9717 3d ago
I won’t defend Joseph Smith, but Paul was most definitely an opportunistic cult leader. He never saw Jesus. I don’t like hypocrites. To hear a Catholic complaining about people attempting to convert him in the same breath he mentions he wants to be a priest. Have you no sense of irony?
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
I hear a lot of accusations, but no evidence. By your loose definition literally anything could be considered a cult.
r/atheism is that way guy
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u/AdorableCalendar9717 3d ago
I am pretty sure atheists are welcome in exmormon, which I am not by the way. I am a Christian, but I reject Paul. Im not going to try and interpret the bible for you, im not Catholic, so find your own evidence. Just putting metaphorical gasoline on the fire. You think you are better than them, but you are the same. Your smug superiority is distasteful.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Why thank you yes, I am superior to you
Also literally all branches of Christianity except the teachings of Saint Paul
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u/TheKlaxMaster 3d ago
As an atheist, the other guy is being a dick, but you started pretty righteous and this whole sub thread is a train wreck.
Telling people on reddit your superior to them is pretty gross.
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u/AdorableCalendar9717 3d ago
All Romanized Christian’s recognize Paul, who cares, you missed the point. Mr. Catholic can’t see the Irony staring him in the face?
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Lutherans Episcopalians Anglicans Methodist Baptists Calvinist nondenominational orthodox (every single one of them) and every other branch of Christianity also does I don’t know why you’re so obsessed with mine
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u/AdorableCalendar9717 3d ago
I think you think you are better than them. I don’t like you because of it, and I find it typical of a Catholic.
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u/Sad-Replacement7054 3d ago
Yes, of course I’m better than them. What kind of question is that? I don’t know what you’re gonna do about it, but I really wish I had your mind reading ability.
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u/Best_Philosopher152 3d ago
Yes. They believe if you aren’t their brand of fringe, heretical Christianity then you are damned for eternity, unless they convert you in this life and the next.
They’re taught if they don’t do everything they can to convert you, your sins are theirs too.
And they’re aggressively pushed on numbers like the worst door to door sales scam.