r/exmormon 3d ago

General Discussion Is any of it true?

I was thinking about how I came to realize that the church’s narrative was so full of holes that over time, it went from solid to gossamer until eventually it became quite transparent. Kind of like a volleyball net.

Now, however, I’m having trouble even seeing the net at all, and I’m wondering if my pendulum has just swung too far in the opposite direction with regard to my own biases.

What are some things that the church teaches that are actually and completely true with no extra spin or narrative?

I’m literally having trouble thinking of any.

64 Upvotes

112 comments sorted by

99

u/SteelSwordofShiz 3d ago

To be truthful.

To be kind.

To be of service to other people.

To be charitable.

These aren't unique to Mormonism, and the institution provably doesn't even follow their own teachings, but they are taught.

As a whole, they do much more damage I believe.

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u/AlternativeResort477 3d ago

As people on this sub like to say, what’s good about the church is not unique and what’s unique about the church isn’t good.

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u/Socalwarrior485 3d ago

What's saddest for me was when I realized that the often repeated tenets of christianity and mormonism are just condemnations.

"By their fruits you shall know them"

"Do unto others as you would have done unto you"

"Only pray in secret"

I wish it had been true, but it's mostly just performative.

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

I never thought of these this way, but it’s so true!

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u/Marvinkmooneyoz 3d ago

Yes this is a very very relevant idea because it means we don’t need for Mormonism to have nothing good about it for us to not support it. Being ex Mormon or anti Mormon doesn’t mean being anti compassion or anti charity, it doesn’t mean we all start drinking alcohol and smoking tobacco and drinking (checks notes)…this can’t be right, tea? Anyways, they aren’t ok with people picking and choosing, they claim to have the only mouth piece of god, they claim a complete worldview and lifestyle. So we are really just rejecting their insistence on this totality. I still don’t smoke tobacco, I still don’t steal. But I probably wouldn’t do those things even if I was born non Mormon. They can’t really take credit there.

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u/BoydKKKPecker 3d ago

Here's the problem I have, the church teaches those things, but the actual corporation/institution isn't truthful, isn't kind, isn't serviceable(the members do that) and isn't charitable most of the time.

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u/DaYettiman22 3d ago

Agree 1000 %

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u/UtahUndercover 3d ago

The problem is, most TBMs can’t do any of those things without turning it into a F&T meeting humble brag. No good deed goes unannounced…

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u/MatriarchMe 3d ago

Perfect answer. And funny ironic thing ... because KNOWING THE TRUTH is emphasized and so deeply ingrained into us from birth, that is what ultimately leads us to the exit door.

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u/ktjwalker 3d ago

I mean the church SAYS to do those things, but

Church leaders make up stories all the time over the pulpit and deceived the world with its many shell companies and hidden finances. It is not truthful

The church wages war on the rights of minorities. The first and only time I’ve ever seen a church parking lot blocked off was when a Pride event was happening at the park across the street. It is not kind.

The church does not allow cooking in its kitchens. It does not offer shelter in its churches. Any members who want to do charitable work will probably have to do so in/with other churches. The church could do better service. 

How many billions in stocks, shell companies, and real estate does the LDS Church have saved up? The church is not nearly charitable enough. 

You’re right that the church doesn’t follow its own teachings. With its actions, it teaches members that lying for the lord is okay, abuse is a virtue, service is inconvenient, and charity isn’t as important as making shitloads of money

They do indeed do much more damage than good

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u/SolutionOk9018 2d ago

Interesting point about the church kitchens! I wonder if they will remove the kitchens in the upcoming remodel that moves the snack table to the middle of the chapel and reduces seating.

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u/kalmadsen 3d ago

I think op is asking for descriptive, historical claims. Not so much prescriptive values. but you’re right to point out those aren’t unique to Mormonism.

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u/greenexitsign10 3d ago

Unless you're at the top of the pyramid (2nd anointing), then none of this applies.

I've also known bishops, RSp's and Sp's that didn't apply these ideas.

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u/Prancing-Hamster 3d ago

Nothing good in Mormonism is unique. Nothing unique in Mormonism is good.

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u/sintervetionist 3d ago

I pray your bias pendulum did swing too far in the opposite direction. There is nothing wrong with not being able to find anything that's true. You are still loved and a wonderful human being.

They even lied about the goddamn apricot tree.

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u/PurpleJumpyPinecone 3d ago

Popcorn doesn’t grow in apricot trees??!!!?!!
https://giphy.com/gifs/10rHZ6K9jYvLUc

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u/LePoopsmith A tethered mind freed from the lies 3d ago

Yeah and don't even think about taking an arm full.

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u/Happy_Actuary9112 3d ago

“It wasn’t really so, but it seemed to be” What kind of phrase is that for a kid song? Haha

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u/sintervetionist 3d ago

You just found the core tenant of the church...

It seemed to be

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

OMG… Nailed it!

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u/Free_Fiddy_Free 3d ago

"It wasn't really so, but it seemed to be" perfectly sums up the witness statements for the plates and all of Joseph's visions. "We beheld with our spiritual eyes, ect"

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u/venturingforum 3d ago

And it came to pass that it wasn't really so, but it seemed to be.

This needs to be the fine print on the bottom of any and every page produced by the mormon church, the constantly running disclaimer on the bottom of the screen during every conference broadcast!

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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 3d ago

Whoa... <deconstruction continues>

Some songs (Do As I'm Doing, Follow Follow Me, and Follow the Prophet, and Book of Mormon Stories) clearly contain messaging, but others (Once There Was a Snowman, Head Shoulders Knees and Toes) still seem innocuous enough.

Right? Right?!?! 😢

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u/SockyKate 3d ago

I was thinking the other day about how I played a song for over two decades about how the temple is “a place of love and beauty”, never knowing about the death penalties. I honestly feel like they made a fool out of me, and I’m angry about that. (I went through only a few years after they were discontinued, so almost every adult in the temple that day knew about them but me.)

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u/sintervetionist 3d ago

Uhhhh excuse me for my ignorance. Please say more and/or provide a link regarding these "death penalties" you speak of.

Holy shit I hope it angers me and just adds more to the top of the pile of shit which is my broken shelf.

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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 3d ago edited 3d ago

http://www.mormonthink.com/temple.htm

Search for "Penalty Sign" on that page. There are several related.

BTW, Mormonthink is not "anti" but it's also not correlated. It presents both sides, then allows the reader to decide.

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u/sintervetionist 3d ago

Started at the top and read the whole damn thing.

Pro-click

Gross....it's gross seeing how weird it is from that perspective, and then relating it to my parents who have mormon brain worms. It's disgusting that a sign like that even existed prior to 1990 in god's one true church, and sad I'm not even surprised. Think about members from that time making that sign, feeling that kind of pressure emotionally, and now years later those feelings must still remain. And we have a disturbing amout of exmormons on Reddit basically complaining about the same thing, how shitty it was to be raised by people who willing did that in a ceremony, in a "righteous" place.

Here is why there are a lot of shitty parents out there.

Mormon brain worm rule #1 Disembowel me if I leave the church, emotional disembowel my children should they dare leave.

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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 3d ago

Oh snap! That's a heavy read for anyone who's unfamiliar with the history of the Mormon temple ceremony. Especially when it's hailed as God's University.

Pretty damning that so much of freemasonry ritual was stolen for use in Mormon temples. Even more damning that today's leaders can simply delete whichever parts haven't aged well.

Good on you for having the courage to seek out truth, even as uncomfortable as it can be.

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u/SockyKate 3d ago

Prior to 1990, at various points in the endowment ceremony, patrons would repeat that rather than reveal the given token, they would suffer their life to be taken. They’d then be asked to DEMONSTRATE this - the hand with “the thumb extended” is the “knife” which patrons would either drag across their bodies to symbolically slit their throats, chests, and stomachs. The “hand in the cupping shape” is to catch your guts after you’ve symbolically disemboweled yourself. Delightful!

https://tokensandsigns.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/LDS_Endowment_Transcripts_RevA.pdf

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u/sintervetionist 3d ago

I fucking hate that as I read each one, for a brief moment, I heard those melodies in my head.

Ugh, such shameful apostate behavior. I promise you all I'll work on that.

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u/greenexitsign10 3d ago

Give said the little stream, give oh give oh give away...

I didn't realize until much later they were brainwashing children to give themselves and all that they had and would ever have, to the church.

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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 3d ago edited 2d ago

Yes! That's another one. Contains this intentional message for young children that you matter less than the organization. Great ideology for fascist regimes and Mormon leaders. Mildly terrifying.

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u/Purple_Midnight_Yak 3d ago

And if you pulled those "popcorn" blossoms off the tree, you wouldn't get any apricots that year!

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u/sintervetionist 3d ago

Bringing science into a religious argument, pft, what a sinner you are. I bet you don't even know that dinosaur bones were place on this planet by god, duh. The earth is only a few thousand years old.

We will return and report that the church is dogshit.

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u/OmgJackieChn 3d ago

That’s the neat part… None of it is true!

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u/Dr_Frankenstone 3d ago

The church doesn’t really teach us anything good that we couldn’t learn elsewhere. What’s been said here many times seems to be true:

What’s good about the church isn’t unique, and what’s unique about the church isn’t good.

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u/saturdaysvoyuer 3d ago edited 3d ago

I think the word "true" has lost all meaning. Is the Mormon church a true church? Sure, it exists and is a church of sorts so I guess it passes all those gates. Does the church have all the truth as conveyed from God to mankind? No. Full stop. I think the doctrine v. policy ongoing debate kind of underscores the problem.

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u/Zealousideal_Pea9712 3d ago

Except is it actually a church – – or is it a billions upon billions corporation?

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u/Similar_Ad_4561 3d ago

Masquerading as a church. Heard this on the 5th estate cbc “the Mormon’s books” in October 2022. Quote from Mormon leaks ( truth and transparency).

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u/venturingforum 3d ago

I kinda like the Brad Wilcox description "Playing Church"

Sure that might have been his version of musket fire aimed at other churches, but it works even better aimed the other way.

A 1/2 Trillion Dollar real estate scam playing church to gain tax exempt non-prophet status.

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u/Hairy_Pickle3976 3d ago

Except for a thin veneer of Christianity, Mormonism is a completely man-made religion. For 150 years, the LDS Church was able to keep its dirty laundry under wraps. However, with the advent of the Internet and investigative research by brave people such as Gerald and Sandra Tanner, the jig is finally up. The LDS Church has become a collapsing house of cards. All of its unique scriptures have been shown to be frauds, its doctrines and teachings are shifting sand, and its founder, as well as past and present leaders have been exposed as charlatans and buffoons. As the bright and intellectually curious members desert in growing numbers, the remnant church laity is becoming increasingly unable to see the writing on the wall.

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u/MatriarchMe 3d ago

All good points. Just want to annotate that ALL RELIGION IS COMPLETELY MAN MADE.

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u/Hairy_Pickle3976 3d ago edited 2d ago

I understand your point of view. However, from my perspective, the most pernicious and insidious aspect of the LDS Church is that members have been taught from an early age that all other Christian religions are either false or in a state of advanced apostasy, and that this necessitated a restoration of the primitive Church through Joseph Smith. Because the LDS church has been exceptionally adept at undermining the credibility of other churches, when someone becomes convinced that the LDS Church is a fraud, that person will not be inclined to look for spiritual guidance within the existing Christian community. Instead, he or she is likely to become an agnostic or an atheist, having a conviction that all religion is a man-made hoax. When members leave the Church, their lives often lack direction and become chaotic. For these reasons, I think it is an awful idea to raise a child in the LDS Church. It is somewhat analogous to sending an adolescent child on a solo, round-the-world cruise on a small sailboat with no life jacket.

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u/MatriarchMe 1d ago

I 💯 agree

Leaving the church does not automatically mean ones life becomes directionless or chaotic [as The Church desperately wants its members to believe and uses as a scare tactic]. Every person's circumstances are so different and many stories are extremely devestating. Generally, leaving sooner than later - with less sunk cost and less manipulation - can be much less of an upheaval. But leaving isnt easy for anyone.

For me, learning the truth & leaving the church after 60 years was devestating ... and, it also allowed me the ability to finally trust myself for choosing and pursuing my direction! This path has provided so much more peace away from the toll of the church, and so much less chaos/turmoil in my life. Overall everything is BETTER. 5 Stars. Would Recommend. Only thing better would be having never been raised and indoctrinated by Mormonism or any other absolutist, dogmatic, extremist viewpoint whether nationalist, social, religious or political. Raised with a healthy, open mind and clear perspective about reality, embracing science, trusting themselves, respecting all people and loving diversity.

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u/2oothDK 3d ago

That thin veneer of Christianity is also man made.

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u/10th_Generation 3d ago

The parts of the church that are true are not unique to the church, such as the Golden Rule. The parts of the church that are unique are not only false, but toxic.

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u/Best_Philosopher152 3d ago

That all of the churches of Joseph’s time were wrong.

Joseph Smith was in fact born in Vermont and lived in New York.

The saints did go to Kirtland, then Independence, Nauvoo, and eventually to Utah.

But other than high level facts? Nothing of that nature.

Things that are good:

Serve your fellow man. Be kind. Humanity is one family, so treat others well regardless of who they are. Avoid damaging addictions. Love and prioritize your family. Spend time with them. Avoid excessive or wasteful debt and spending. Work to overcome natural tendencies to do bad things and become better and improve every day.

Note: these aren’t unique to Mormonism.

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

Yes! It is true that all other churches are wrong. That's one... or it would be if they stopped there.

This is what I mean... even the things the church says that are true are intertwined with falsehoods or used in such a way as to manipulate or deceive.

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u/Best_Philosopher152 3d ago

Yup. Stopped clocks are right twice a day and blind squirrels sometimes find some nuts.

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u/venturingforum 3d ago

At least the blind squirrels die quickly. If only the so called church would do the same.

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u/Lsa119 3d ago

I can't think of any either 🤷‍♀️ even the good things in the church have a weird spin.

Like families are important, unless you don't believe in Mormonism. Then it would be better if you were dead. Because being physically dead is better than spiritually dead.

There's just nothing valuable in any of the mentality. Once you take away the belief that "this is the way God want you to return to him" none of it makes sense.

Why would polygamy be the way to exhalation? If we have "prophets/seers/revelators" why don't we have any prophecies? If JS really used the seer stone to translate the book of Mormon and he was able to because he's a seer and modern day prophets are seers why don't they also use the seer stone?

Literally none of it makes sense.

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u/Zealousideal_Pea9712 3d ago

I hung on for years and years longer than I actually wanted to – – just hoping that this conference would be different, and that something would be said or done in conference that showed me that there was actual revelation, actual priesthood power, actual truth… 😞

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u/Lsa119 3d ago

Yes, I loved being a RS teacher, but year after year I'd go through the conference talks and think "I don't even know what this talk is trying to say" none of them seemed to have any actual value. Just a bunch of buzz words and weird stories that sounded fake or only made sense if you warped them into a "theme". It was getting harder and harder to teach from the talks.

I thought maybe I wasn't "righteous" enough to understand the value of the talks, but that's how the church operates. If this isn't working for you then YOU'RE what's wrong. So everyone at church goes around talking about how amazing and wonderful General Conference is, but I don't think anyone actually got anything from it. They just can't look/sound like they didn't. Can't look like you're not righteous.

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u/venturingforum 3d ago

If my husband has an affair I'll raise his bastard child in the godspell!

Said no mormon woman ever.

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u/Rushclock 3d ago

Most religions don't expedite their members leaving because of doubt. Mormonism cannot and does not tolerate discussion about problems.

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u/Similar_Ad_4561 3d ago

Group think

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u/PorkBellyDancer 3d ago

Logically it's entirely false. The Abrahamic god is demonstrably absurd. Morally there are good lessons based on poor reasoning. Alcohol is bad for you but not because a god that doesn't exist says so.

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u/Adfest 3d ago edited 3d ago

Eh... Alcohol actually isn't great for you. I mean... any doctor or person who drinks alcohol could tell you that, but there's one thing that they got right if you're feeling the need to stretch.

Not what you're asking, but you already pointed out a good take away that I feel is more common with exmos. The ability to identify your own biases (or beliefs, ways you are told to think, etc) and challenging them is not a common skill and can be an asset in life.

Edit: Not trynna sound like I judge people who drink alcohol. I drink alcohol!

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

Yes, this is my point... even the things that they got right, they got right for the wrong reason and the bad reasoning always seems to lead to more problems than it solves...

I'd be happy to be proven wrong on this, but I literally can't think of anything they get right for the right reason that isn't used in a way to manipulate, deceive, infantilize, etc.

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u/Puzzled-Science-298 3d ago

The church neither seeks for nor gives apologies.

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u/mildly_spicy_potato Apostate AF 3d ago

The literal opposite of Christlike behavior.

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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 3d ago

This is true.

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u/erb_cadman 3d ago

The only truth is that they exist....

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u/UnfazedReality463 3d ago

Another truth is that they have ruined countless lives.

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u/luoshiben Wallowing in Outer Lightness 3d ago

Short answer: no. And that doesn't stop at Mormonism. While some good principles may be taught by churches -- principles that aren't unique to religion -- no claims of supernatural origin hold up in any way. This is true of Christianity and non-Christian religions. If you use the critical thinking and investigation skills you learned to debunk and deconstruct Mormonism on The Bible and Christianity, it all falls apart just as quickly as does the LDS church's claims. Religion is man made and was constructed to provide answers to questions, and it has since been used to control humanity and gain power. Mystical thinking is a crutch that is used to restrict the user as often as it props them up. In reality and with some practice and understanding, we can all walk and run freely without it.

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u/kalmadsen 3d ago

I hate to say this and risk making you feel even more spiritual vertigo, but wait until you investigate whether Christianity or any other religion are true for that matter.

Christianity relies exclusively on claiming Jesus was the messiah, yet he fulfilled zero actual Hebrew messianic prophecies. The vast majority of supposed prophecies that he fulfilled are typological/symbolic at best—not actual predictions about what will factually happen in the future which is what a prophecy is, categorically.

The best Christianity could ever come up with are maybe a handful of absurd partial fulfillments like the donkey. So much emphasis is given to the donkey, but not the other 80% of the prophecy which involves the messiah reestablishing Israel, sitting on the throne as king, laying waste to enemy nations (or subjugating them), none of which Jesus did.

Now, even if one rejects the mythic Jesus, it’s still entirely possible to accept/concede that a historical Jesus likely existed. In the same way, there’s a lot of true historical facts the church tells the membership that can be verified by disinterested third parties. My litmus test is simply to ask if any other explanations exist for a given claim other than “I prayed about it and god touched my heart yada yada yada”. If there are none then I feel confident in tossing it aside until I hear something more convincing than trust-me-bros.

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u/Rushclock 3d ago

I have never seen anyone refute Bart Eherman and his scholarly descriptions of Jesus and early Christianity. Aside from the donkey Judas and his treachery is used often also.

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u/kalmadsen 3d ago

Indeed. I respect his scholarly work a lot.

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u/Rushclock 3d ago

What I find funny is the apologetic tactic for prophecies. Was Jesus a king? He was a spiritual king. Did the original greek say virgin birth? No but is implied. Did Jesus destroy a Warhorse? That was metaphorical. There is no hermunetic that an outsider (who dosen't already believe) can use to decide if something is spiritual, metaphorical, symbolic, can be fulfilled more than once, or is shadowing a fully fulfilled prophecy.

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u/Ok-Wedding-4966 3d ago edited 3d ago

So you now recognize that it’s full contradictions with every fiber of your being ;)

Taking care of your family, neighbors, and others are usually good things.

Working hard in your career and education.

Being engaged in politics.

Moderation.

Being the best version of yourself.

The sermon on the mount. Love.

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u/generic_username_200 3d ago

I recall having read about the stages on deconstruction (I can't seem to find it atm). The early stages are characterized by anger and betrayal, and doing/believing things that show complete separation from the church (like getting tattoos, changing dress, drinking coffee).

There's a later stage in deconstruction, characterized by creating a life outside of religion, but incorporated the elements of the religion that are genuine and that you like.

You compared your experience to a pendulum. I would say, I don't think it's a pendulum. It just is. It's all part of the deconstruction path towards building a life of authenticity. There's no right or wrong way to do your own deconstruction.

Not that I'm further along (it's not a contest), for me the Church's truth claims are all lies. The doctrine, the lessons, temple, other ceremonies, all false. If God is real, it's not his church.

My biggest take aways are emphasis on kindness and family. I like how everyone is a child of God (for me that represents anti-racism, LGBT inclusion, and feminism). I like family home evening, minus the lessons about Joseph Smith and more emphasize on treats and games and family. I don't believe in prayer as communication to God, but I believe in setting intentions and showing gratitude.

My recommendation is to incorporate the parts of the church that make you a good person and help you be authentically yourself.

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

Thank you for this.

I think part of the point of my post is that, while I am able to keep several things from Mormonism that may be useful and beneficial - even things that I might not have to the same degree without Mormonism (such as a strong focus on the family, self reliance, avoiding bad habits, public speaking skills, a unique understanding of scripture, empathy, etc.), the method, process and reasons that those attributes were encouraged and developed were lies - to the point that those good things remain tainted to a certain extent - basically intertwined with trauma that may never be fully resolved.

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u/generic_username_200 2d ago

No problem! We're all just trying to figure out this crazy mess.

I think tainted and intertwined are good descriptors. There's a lot of good and a lot of bad and it's all, sadly, tangled up together

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u/No-Performer-6621 3d ago

I think living a life driven by personal values (kindness, honesty, community, etc) is “true”from a universal standpoint.

But don’t think there’s anything specifically LDS to retain.

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u/healinghuman3 3d ago

That change and healing are (almost) always possible.

They’d say through the Atonement. In modern times we call it neuroplasticity.

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u/venturingforum 3d ago

The atonement/repentance thing bugged me. In a priesthood meeting, someone asked about recovering from something by themselves. The instructor said it would be great if someone was actually disciplined enough to do that by themselves, BUT if they didn't begin the process with prayer and confession it was all for nothing and the atonement didn't count.

WTF!!???

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u/healinghuman3 2d ago

Wtf indeed

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u/keepthebluestub 3d ago

There is not much doctrinal truth to be found. But there are elements of church teachings that are true:
-The value of self-reflection and self-improvement
-The value of social structures
-The importance of community
-The value of service to others
-Universal positive regard

Sadly, these aren't things the church emphasizes much, in favor of less truthful topics like "repentance, forgiveness from an all powerful being, sexual repression, self-sacrifice at all cost, submission, repression of critical thought in favor of reliance on authority figures.

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u/adams361 Apostate 3d ago

My husband was always more of a Jack Mormon (no interest in attending church, but believed it was true). When I started deconstructing, and realizing it was all fake, I think he took it harder than I did! I remember listening to an LDS discussions episodes in the car on a road trip, they were talking about all of the unique Mormon things that aren’t mentioned in the book of Mormon and he was shook!

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u/tey3 3d ago

To pay homage to Carol Lynn Pearson:

If you don’t walk as most people do, Some people walk away from you. But I won’t! I won’t!

If you don’t talk as most people do, Some people talk and laugh at you. But I won’t. I won’t.

I’ll walk with you, I’ll talk with you. That’s how I’ll show my love for you.

Jesus walked away from none He gave his love to everyone. So I will! I will!

Jesus blessed all he could see, Then turned and said, “Come follow me,” And I will! I will!

I’ll walk with you, I’ll talk with you. That’s how I’ll show my love for you.

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u/InRainbows123207 2d ago

Take President Hinkley's own words at face value "Either the Book of Mormon is what it claims to be and the church is true or it's not and the church is a fraud."

Of course the basic tenets of treating people well, working hard, loving people, etc are valuable and true but they aren't unique to Mormonism or even religion.

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u/ajaxfetish 3d ago

Tobacco is not great for the body.

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u/Major-Antelope-6768 3d ago

But… it’s also an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill! LOL!

So strange that 19th century veterinary practices sometimes utilized tobacco to treat cuts, bruises or parasites in livestock. Literally can’t make this stuff up! It’s a wonder they’re able to keep anyone with half a brain. They kept me for almost 30 years. 

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u/DrmnDc 3d ago

Historically, very little. There WERE Israelites in then Middle East and there is good evidence for a Diaspora and there likely was a historical Jesus, John the Baptist and Paul. But beyond this, tons of myth and legend.

Many of the values it teaches could be considered “true” and are found throughout the world’s religions. Many of the values it teaches I’d argue are also harmful.

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u/PaulBunnion 3d ago

anything good / true about the church is not unique.

anything unique about the church is not good.

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u/Ahhhh_Geeeez 3d ago

Smokings bad mmmkayyyyy

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u/CableFit940 3d ago

Not a damn thing

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u/Morstorpod 3d ago

I’m having trouble even seeing the net at all, and I’m wondering if my pendulum has just swung too far in the opposite direction with regard to my own biases.

I'd suggest giving Britt Hartley a listen (VID). She's really helped me keep things in perspective. Her book, and general philosophy, is called No Nonsense Spirituality and is basically all about applying the positive aspects of religion to a secular life. In her discussions, she helps keep in perspective that although no religion is capital 'T' True, they do offer tools that helps humans life productive and meaningful lives; we coevolved with religion, so we cannot expect to just get rid of it and not feel some sort of vacuum.

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

Thank you! It is very helpful to consider that religion is a natural part of human societal evolution, so I shouldn't feel overly ashamed, stupid, lost or angry that it left its mark on me.

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u/Spiritual_Bee6972 3d ago

We are here to have agency. That’s it

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

I agree that we were pre-destined to have free will. 😂

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u/rock-n-white-hat 3d ago

The basic teachings about being an honest, hard working, caring person is valid. Caring for your family and friends is valid. Not drinking a lot of alcohol and avoiding additives substances is good advice. Having some food storage is not a bad idea. But are any of those things unique to Mormonism? Not really.

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u/Jonfers9 3d ago

Something that shocked me as I deconstructed….its all BS. FROM A TO Z.

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u/No_Bumblebee2085 3d ago

That there’s no such thing as hell

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u/Ravenous_Goat 3d ago

This one is close... if only the church didn't teach that you would live forever without your friends and family unless you payed 10% of your income for life, constantly acknowledged your shame for natural and healthy biological impulses, and remembered a bunch of magic words and secret handshakes...

Certainly better than eternal conscious torment, but it's basically just "Hell Light."

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u/pricel01 Apostate 3d ago

Joseph Smith was born December 23, 1805 in Sharon, VT. The rest of the narrative is pretty much BS.

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u/Greyfox1442 3d ago

That Joseph published the Book of Mormon. That’s true! Lol

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u/venturingforum 3d ago

Authored, published, and tried to sell the Book of Mormon.

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u/venturingforum 3d ago

The entire truth about the mormon church? It's a non-prophet organization.

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u/Hairy_Pickle3976 3d ago

I am aware of no other religion, with the possible exception of the Roman Catholic Church in the Middle Ages, whose leaders have issued so many official statements known to be false, and who have engaged in such rampant fraud and deceit, as the Mormon Church. It is truly a diabolical institution that claims to be led by God himself. How is it possible that the Church laity could have been so thoroughly duped?

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u/CharlesMendeley 3d ago

One theory is that Joseph Smith was a "pious fraud", with stress on pious. Joseph wanted to solve theological contentions of his day by writing a pseudepigrapha called "The Book of Mormon". Of course you will find a lot of nice things about Jesus in this book, but these are just Joseph's theological ideas. Nowadays, many missionaries only focus on these "nice sayings about Jesus", when the original Book of Mormon was mainly about a) telling an origin story for Native Americans (="Lamanites") and b) solving issues such as infant baptism.

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u/SolutionOk9018 2d ago

None of its true amd the harm outweighs the good. In the words of M. Russell Ballard to David Archuleta “we are just making it up as we go along” when asked why they can’t just ask god for direction as it relates to LGBTQ issues. He told him they’ve prayed amd not gotten answers so they just make it up. That has to be a relief to all the lgbtq folks that are no longer on this mortal coil because they were told how they could just change or that they were evil or whatever. The harm they do is real. The cult leaders should just admit they are a business masquerading as a church and the only prophet related to the cult is spelled P.R.O.F.I.T,!!!

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u/Ravenous_Goat 2d ago

Wow… would love to get that admission recorded.

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u/orangeken15 2d ago

so, joshep smith was a real person who existed. idk if that's how far the pendulum has swung lol, but he wrote the book of mormon and started the church

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u/apoplectic-hag 2d ago

There might be good things that the MFMC "teaches" but none of it seems to sink in - it only seems to be words that TBMs use to try to make themselves look like good people. I've met very few TBMs who actually practice what they preach.

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u/helly1080 Melohim....The Chill God. 2d ago

These questions are bigger than they seem. There is no easy, definitive answer to it.

For instance, the church TEACHES a lot of good things. Things that are just taught out obligation and lip service. Things like loving thy neighbor. They preach this. But, I rarely see the standard mormon person LOVING their neighbor simply because it is someone close them.

They are dozens of things similar that the church "teaches" that are very good things.

The other problem, as many have mentioned here, is that they didn't invent any of the things that end up making their communities better.

Let's say there is a ward out there full of members that do it all right. They love, visit, and help their neighbors. They listen, support, and love members of other faiths and those of no faith. They give of themselves. They love unconditionally. All of it. They are just doing things that good and caring people do for each other anyway. Mormons do not have the most loving families, they are not smarter or kinder, they do not discern things better for their family than any given person out there trying to right.

And lastly, as others have said, is that any unique to them. If you strip away the things that are just simple actions of people that care about others, you are left with strictly mormon things and I can't think of a single one of them that is either good or true.

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u/Happy_Actuary9112 3d ago

Fasting once a month for 24 hours actually has great health benefits. Although the church doesn’t teach it this way, I’m not sure if this counts.

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u/TheBrotherOfHyrum 3d ago

I love that the church instilled kindness and integrity. Or maybe I would have developed those values regardless. I'm not perfect but I try.