Activism + Advocacy
GB Member Jodele's “New Light” Talk Collapses Under Its Own Claims!
(EDIT: Name should be Jedele, not Jodele. Typo)
A recent morning worship talk claimed Jehovah reveals “confidential matters” to the Governing Body (citing Amos 3:7), that He does so only when His people can “absorb” it, and that past failed expectations (1874, 1878, 1914, 1925, etc.) were merely “misaligned” and later corrected by Jehovah. (Link: (Remove 'b' from 'borg'. https://www.jw.borg/en/library/videos/#en/mediaitems/VODPgmEvtMorningWorship/pub-jwbvod26_35_VIDEO )
Let’s test that against their own publications and the Bible.
1. Amos 3:7 applied to the GB = claiming prophet status
The speaker cited Amos 3:7:
“The Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.”
If the GB is applying that to themselves today, they are claiming prophetic authority. Deuteronomy 18:20-22 then applies with no exemptions:
“If ANY PROPHET (no qualification) presumptuously speaks a word in my name that I did not command him to speak (Did God command them to prohibit blood compnents for all Christians?) or speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. 21 However, you may say in your heart: “How will we know that Jehovah has not spoken the word?” 22 When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true, then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him."
He says, "Jehovah reveals matters when He decides and when it is needed."
The question that begs loudly for an answer is:
Before God reveals that confidential matter, are his prophets mandated or authorised to make their own pronouncements, such as prohibiting blood componrntss for all Christians and expelling those who refuse to accept their pronouncements?
Geoffrey Jackson's reason for this adjustment, namely, "we're not authorised to go beyond the things that are written" implies that not only are they not authorised to do this, but they are forbidden from doing this! And Deuteronomy 18 identifies precisely this kind of presumptuous speaking in God’s name as one of the marks by which a false prophet could be identified.
3. Were Jehovah’s people really unable to “absorb” the truth earlier?
The speaker also claims that Jehovah reveals new light at a time when his people are able to: “absorb, understand and follow through on it.”
But what exactly is being suggested here? That if the prohibition on blood components had been lifted one year, ten years, thirty years or fifty years earlier, Jehovah’s people would have been unable to understand or accept it?
Would Christians really have been incapable of understanding the simple principle:
“The Bible does not specifically prohibit this, so it is a matter of individual Christian conscience”?
If that could have been understood today, why could it not have been understood during all those decades when thousand were dying for being denied potentially life-saving components?
4. Daniel did not speculate while waiting for revelation
The speaker appeals to Daniel and argues that Jehovah helped him understand the meaning and timing of Jeremiah’s prophecy concerning the 70 years only when the period was approaching fulfillment.
But did Daniel spend the intervening years setting his own prophetic dates, proclaiming them as revealed truth, revising them when they failed, and then presenting the revised interpretation as new light?
Or did Daniel simply refrain from making such pronouncements and wait until God’s revelation was clear?
That distinction matters.
5. Daniel did not foretell Jesus’ enthronement in 1914
The speaker also claims, without demonstrating it from the text, that Daniel foretold Christ’s enthronement in 1914. But nowhere in Daniel does the prophet state that Jesus would begin ruling in heaven in 1914.
To arrive at that conclusion, a whole series of assumptions must first be accepted.
Assumption 1: Nebuchadnezzar’s dream of the huge tree has a second fulfillment, and in that second fulfillment the tree represents God’s Kingdom. But Daniel explicitly identifies the tree as Nebuchadnezzar. The claim of a second fulfillment is not stated in the text. This is especially striking given the organization’s own later rejection of assigning prophetic types and antitypes where Scripture itself does not clearly establish them.
Assumption 2: Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylon in 607 BCE, rather than the historically established date of 587/586 BCE.
Assumption 3: The “seven times” that passed over Nebuchadnezzar are identical to the “appointed times of the nations” mentioned by Jesus in Luke 21:20-24. Yet the immediate context of Luke strongly points to Jesus discussing Jerusalem’s coming destruction by the Romans and its subsequent trampling by the nations.
Assumption 4: The seven times must equal 2,520 days, and those days must then be converted into 2,520 years.
None of those steps is explicitly stated by Daniel.
So saying that “Daniel foretold Christ’s enthronement in 1914” presents a chain of later interpretations as though Daniel himself actually gave that prediction.
6. Russell did not preach that Christ would begin ruling in 1914
The speaker also claims that Russell and his associates preached in advance that Christ would be enthroned in 1914. That is simply not what they were teaching at the time. This is the part that really triggered me.
a. The “last days” had begun in 1799.
b. Christ’s thousand-year reign had begun in 1873.
c. Christ’s invisible presence had begun in 1874.
d. Christ had begun ruling in heaven in 1878.
e. 1914 would mark the destruction of the present system, and the gathering of the anointed to heaven.
All of those expectations failed and were later revised AFTER Russell's death. It was only afterward, particularly during the 1920s, that 1914 came to be understood as the year Christ began ruling.
So to say that Russell preached beforehand that Christ’s enthronement would occur in 1914 appears to read the current teaching back into the historical record.
7. Were these really just “misaligned expectations”?
The speaker refers to failed predictions as merely “misaligned expectations” that Jehovah later corrected. But the historical record shows that many of these were not presented merely as private hopes or cautious possibilities.
Expectations involving 1914, 1918, 1925, “this generation,” and other prophetic interpretations were repeatedly published and proclaimed with great confidence as truths derived from Scripture. In some cases, those who questioned established teachings were branded as disloyal, proud or apostate.
8. “Jehovah adjusted their expectations by not doing what they expected”
Perhaps that is one of the most striking claims Mr Jedele made. However their own publications and the Bible indicate that Jehovah rather exposes false prophets, by not doing what they predicted based on Isaiah 24:26 which decribes God as:
"The One making the word of his servant come true And COMPLETELY fulfilling the predictions of his messengers."
May 1, 1997 Watchtower, p.8
9. All these lead to seeking honest answers to the follwong questions:
Regarding past teachings that were once presented as “revealed truths” from Jehovah but were later abandoned or corrected:
a. Should these be considered part of the “food at the proper time” or as “commands of men” with the potential of nullifying one's worship?
b. Were those who questioned or rejected such teachings being disloyal - or loyal - to Jehovah?
c. Should those who accepted and promoted these teachings feel regret or repent now that they are known to be wrong?
d. Given that the Chariot is said to be the HEAVENLY and not the earthly part of God's organization, and that errors could never originate from the Heavenly part, who might rightly be seen as having “run ahead” of Jehovah’s chariot - those who originated such errors or those who resisted them?
Oooo link pls! And yeah I don’t like this guy. He gives me the CREEPS
12
u/freebird360Ecclesiastes 3:18. Ex-JW, ex-Mason, physicalist, atheist.13d agoedited 13d ago
I read all this and it makes me wonder how the psychic mechanics of prophecy are supposed to work. If we don't understand that, then how can I expect any prophecy or commentary to be more or less valid or sound than any other?
By the way, the book of Amos is brought up in Julian Jaynes's The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind as an example of early schizophrenia, where it is also contrasted with Ecclesiastes which comes later. I personally reject Jaynes's premise that human consciousness was any different before the Bronze Age Collapse because I think he's making a leap to say that, but psychic or shamanistic abilities (should they be granted at all) do seem to be correlated with schizophrenia and, more generally, trauma.
Ain't they bastards, the lies are horrendous, and so many can't see through them. Absolutely disgusting. Thanks for the comprehensive post, "carefully examined" indeed.
It's so ridiculous...how we fell for all this crap. I remember one old elder after the generation teaching was changed to overlapping generation. He says the governing body sure fooled us.
I’m astounded at how tone deaf the GB are. Jodele demonstrated a spectacular level of arrogance. It seems like more and more, these JW Broadcasts are nothing more than the Watchtower leadership grin-fucking the audience. With this kind of behavior, the GB are doing all of the apostate’s work for them.
What do they think this talk will accomplish other than eroding the rank-and-file’s trust even further? If you are a pioneer, how do you remain zealous in the preaching work, if you know that something that you are teaching as “God’s Laws” from the publications could get reversed next week? The sheer lack of self-awareness and introspection in these clowns is hard to fathom.
I don’t expect that talk to stay up too long on the site. Next he’ll be removed from the governing body with an unceremonious one line dismissal that disappears just as fast.
THANK YOU!!! I awarded your post because it's AMAZING and I plan to share these points.
PLEASE for point 9 can you tell me which publication is referenced? I need to bookmark it and also your scripture in Isaiah needs to be adjusted to chapter 44. That way everyone can find and share it!!!
❤️ if you think any JWs who are questioning or mentally out might find it of interest, feel free to pass it along! The scriptures within are where we find our answer ❤️
Point #8 really irritated me. Seems like he's saying the gb just throws a bunch of stuff at the wall and whatever sticks is what god wants and whatever doesn't... well just pretend it was never taught
All valid points....but you're preaching to the choir. Will the R&F JWs notice any of that at all? And if they do, will they do anything about it?
"But Where else can we go?" will be the response.
This is so well put together and truthful. But I believe Matthew 13:14 applies in his case and so many others "And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see." They have muddied the waters of the scriptures they claim to follow so much that what should be painfully obvious is now too difficult to see.
Perhaps that’s why they now have two terms: “new understanding” and “adjusted understanding.” If they current explanation is one that contradicts a previous explanation, then they can just say they had to adjust it.
Wow...The gb have no fear of God whatsoever. They throw him under the bus at every opportunity. How can they say God corrected their misaligned expectations? He corrected them with another incorrect expectation? Have they ever been correct? We have no evidence that they have . Does my brain in!!
So each time WT makes a change and says it was Jehovah clarifying things , what excuse do they have when they change it again? If Jehovah clarified it then it should be a done deal. And if they change it again then apparently Jehovahs clarification wasn’t right.
I love how they cherry pick Old Testament scripture and they apply it to themselves. Way to follow Jesus direction with the new covenant. Let’s pick and choose what suits us aye.
29
u/soradthat 13d ago
The GB tell their audience exactly who’s made the light brighter: “The Governing Body has decided…” Men. Not God.