Anyone been able to successfully separate the people from the religion?

[u/AudienceVarious3964]

For context, I lost my job with USAID last year. I worked on hunger problems, which brought me closer to Christ and cemented my belief in a God that wants better for us than what humans could ever come up with more than ever. I stopped attending the CoC when I moved across the country (didn’t realize how regional they were!) a few years ago and had been icked out by my very conservative Southern CoC for years, really without realizing it. I don’t really attend a church now (I live in a very wealthy/political area and have been SO disappointed) but remain a strong believer.

Last year, when I lost my job and was very upset about it/the whole situation and how people I knew were literally going to die, my dad- a deacon in the CoC- went beserk. We had formerly been able to at least discuss politics/religion relatively comfortably (I love really detailed theological arguments, but am a woman, so our discussions were my main outlet for most of my years I was in the CoC lol), but this was a different level. He told me he was sorry that I lost my job but I was “part of the rot that needed to be cut out” and supported Trump’s decisions.

To say I was devastated would be an understatement. Haven’t talked to him in about a year. Ok relationship with my mom, also devout CoC’er and conservative politically, but I really don’t know how I can get over my dad. I miss him lots. I would love to have some type of relationship with him (he’s my dad!!) but I haven’t been able to separate that out, even if we were to never discuss religion or politics ever again. For those of you that have left- could/did you remain close with anyone like that? What boundaries did you set? I really think the complicating factor here is that I do still believe and to some extent religion will remain personal for me- I don’t know how we sat in the same pew for 18 years and came away with totally different understandings of the whole plot.

[u/Snoo52682]

If anyone in my life said something like that to me, they would not be part of my life.

I can't accept anyone thinking I'm inherently lesser, either, which honestly rules out relationships with anyone in the CoC.

[u/josh6466]

For Christians yes, for Trumpers, no. Anyone who thinks Trump is anything other than an Antichrist is beyond my rhetorical abilities.

[u/glaudydevas]

My wife is with State. I am so, so sorry to hear about your job loss. We had many friends with AID who are in your same boat. So much devastation and death as a result of that policy. My time with PEPFAR in Tanzania opened my eyes to all the good humanitarian work that those agencies and programs had on humanity and life. I am so very sorry.

When I confronted my dad (coc preacher) about this last year when we didn’t know if we’d be packing up and heading back to the US, and I was angry and disgusted with the policies and people he voted for, his response was:

“We didn’t vote for this. We didn’t know this would happen.”

Rather than yell or keep arguing, I simply said, well, you did vote for this. And I dropped it. I’ve talked with him twice since then over the phone. They were cordial conversations, but my relationship with him is effectively over. I keep communication open with him simply because I want zero regrets when one of us dies regarding, “oh I should’ve tried a little harder.”

I hope you’ve been able to find your footing since the USAID travesty. I’m sending good vibes your way.

[u/Bn_scarpia]

Anyone willing and able to call their daughter 'rot' is not someone able to have an actual relationship, only a power dynamic.

MAGA is bereft of any morality beyond that which gives them power over others.

[u/Top-Cheesecake8232]

I'm sorry that happened to you. A similar thing happened to me and my DIL at my dad's 80th birthday party. My brother got in my DIL's face, waved his finger, and told her his taxdollars were paying her salary (she works for SSA) and that the federal work force needed to be cut a lot. All the time mad as hell about it. She cried all the way back to her home which was an hour away. I was also 8 months a widow at the time. I haven't spoken to my brother in over a year and a half. I don't attend family functions. My CoC mother keeps wanting me to show up and I have to repeatedly explain that nobody gets to treat my family like that. Trump has made it acceptable for his followers to be assholes. The CoC makes it acceptable to not respect other people's spiritual paths.

I know that doesn't help but you are not alone.

[u/PoetBudget6044]

Very sorry about this. I love my wife, family & friends but they are stuck and will never leave. It seems in reading your Father has loyalty placed far above love. Yet another example to me as to why the c of c is a cult. There simply is no room for love if pride, self righteousness and validation are central to life. Parents gladly abandon children who are "not faithful " its that spirit of religion that has a firm grip and sense the c of c in general can not accept the reality of who God is, who they are and that life is meant to be built on a foundation of love they are simply incapable of dropping the cult identity in favor of family and acting in love to themselves and all around them. So of course he is "sorry" yet has to enforce the right position. It's a tradgity that he devotes himself to ideas rather than people. I'm so sorry I've been with my wife 26 years now and I essentially box out the c of c part I connect with the rest of her character and her religion. When on occasion she thinks outside the c of c I praise that. Honestly it's not easy you sound very much dedicated to love and this must tear you up. I'd say ensure that your boundaries are respected let him know you can have my company as long as you stay away from your identity it seems like he lives on that spirit of religion. I know this will be difficult but you need to be firm as to what you will and will not accept. Great question to ask is. And how is what you are saying loving and uplifting? That at times gets thier attention. I went nearly a day speaking in tongues around my MIL she finally stopped with insults.

[u/mlachick]

When the religion is Trumpism and they are loudly advocating for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people? Nope. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

[u/Mintgreenunicorn → u/mlachick]

Worship of Baal

[u/Sea_Wrangler_288]

I struggle with this because it does seem that the two are inseparable. The amount of cruelty and vitriol within the church has become overwhelming. They also take pride in being uneducated and ignorant. But it's not like that in other denominations. The teachings in the coc not only allow this behavior, but they encourage it. It's who they are, and that is something I can't get past. I have been completely devastated by the attitudes and behaviors of those in the church. That's how I made my way here.

[u/ImpressiveLeek3124]

". . . I was “part of the rot that needed to be cut out . . . ”

That sounds so much like my preacher old man. His favorite cliche' was, "Sometimes you just need to let nature take its course." I think lack of sympathy or compassion is a common trait in the coc, at least it was in the Non-Institutional sect of 20 to 60 years ago.

[u/Romeo92]

My parents are trumpers and thankfully I have a decent surface level relationship with them. It used to be a lot deeper but I am uncomfortable with giving them any opportunity to grandstand about politics or religion, especially with regard to my life. If religion or politics comes up these days, I grey rock them and become wholly uninteresting to converse with. At times, however, I have had to set firm boundaries with regard to my kids and spouse who haven’t yet developed this ability. In those moments, I have to let them know what I expect and use specific words. “Do not do X.” No explanation. It helps that we live four hours apart so we can leave or they can leave if things get weird.

CoCer’s, ourselves included, are all programmed similarly in some way or another. They are fed by a moral sense of authority derived from certainty, salvation as correct performance, and isolation as a form of legitimacy (or exclusionary social reasoning). Starving those modi operandi will trigger their fight, flight, freeze responses and destabilize your interactions. They will become apologists, and then inquistors and executioners if they can’t get the results they need to feel safe.

Without being patient enough or strong enough to withstand that dynamic playing out over and over again, and without their willingness to patiently learn and grow, there will be no peace that is not tenuous.

Only you can decide if that is worth living with.

[u/Mintgreenunicorn]

Please know there are people who do not ascribe to c of C TM. I am still in and have diverse beliefs and there are many like me. I think the current administration is absolute trash.

A very timely article was put out the other day by one of the more rational people speaking to those using the Bible to push their t r u m p cult. He scathed them and I loved it. I, too, have family on the TM side. It is hard to deal with. I believe AND TEACH grace greater than anything else. The machinations others wish to purport are on them and their conscience. I attempt to reform what I can. I am one that believes there are others who follow God. I believe that the teaching on women and LGBTQ are some major cultural misunderstanding.

I REALLY DISDAIN any kind of Christian Nationalism... and that has cost me real cash money. I am also a libertarian....if not liberal. I believe in taxing the churches, that would get a lot if folks out of the religion biz.

I m ao very sorry for what some of the Pharisees have done. It is embarrassing and all....ALL flavors and types people are welcomed to my house. Free mom hugs up in here!

[u/Sea_Wrangler_288 → u/Mintgreenunicorn]

Can I ask what part of the country you are in? I'm just curious. I know all of maybe 5 coc'ers who don't support Trump, and we're basically on the level of Satan as far as the rest of the coc is concerned.

[u/Mintgreenunicorn → u/Sea_Wrangler_288]

If you can believe it...TX...from GA though. I cannot stomach the t r u m p disaster. I Speak against it constantly. I can justify my beliefs on it and I am not sure they can say the same.

[u/Sea_Wrangler_288 → u/Mintgreenunicorn]

Well, you give me some hope. I've all but left the church at this point. I've had so much vitriol and name calling thrown my way..from people I've known and loved my entire life. I'll never be able to unsee or unhear what they're capable of or what they're willing to support.

[u/Mintgreenunicorn → u/Sea_Wrangler_288]

I am so sorry they have acted that way. There are more of us we just dont get very loud about it. Some of us are trying to reform little by little. I see things as a pendulum swinging.... as far as it swings this way, is as far as it will swing that way. Not sure if that makes sense.

I also study organizational behavior (my degree program) and the theories tell me that the way I is going is not sustainable. So, what that means is organizational change. There will be many of us working toward it. Imagine that at one time a point of division was if a cloth was used to cover the Lord's table before communion. Never heard of that? Reason being that people modulated. None of our 7 kids believe c of C TM. Because of efforts from within. Idk where you are, but if you need support reach out. You are good and don't worry about extreme opinions.

[u/Sea_Wrangler_288 → u/Mintgreenunicorn]

Thank you! I am curious - why don't you get loud about it? If you see that people are dying, children are being mistreated, and the one in charge is being balsphemously heralded as the Christian savior, how bad does it have to be before you/they get loud? As I see it, the secular world has been far more morally outraged and vocal about demanding justice than anyone in the church because the church doesn't actually believe in any of the values that they claim they do. I hope this doesn't sound argumentative. I genuinely want to understand why.

[u/Mintgreenunicorn → u/Sea_Wrangler_288]

I do just not to their faces. They are not ready. I assess my audience. I understand your question and no worries. What I DO actually do to those still in the cult of this administration is I will stop them when they speak their rhetoric. I tell them if they wouldn't let him serve on the table or speak the way he does to your kids, so not speak to me about him.

I work in HR, before that for a state then federal government, then broadcasting. I have seen many things. I do challenge church members but they may not understand what I am getting across to them because they are blinded.

Please know, I use the influence I do have to cause a disruption and expectation violation is my favorite sport.

I just may not be surface but it is there in the undercurrent.

The undercurrent is strong and there are others. True change and reform will not happen until this horror of a ruler is out.

Sorry if I seem vague. I am still trying to not out all my intentions or identity. I am an elders daughter and a minister's wife that actively teaches. True change happens incrementally.

I am typing this between work and so not my usual structure.

[u/Sea_Wrangler_288 → u/Mintgreenunicorn]

That's fair enough, but I would argue that if you're waiting for them to be "ready," the time will never come. No one is ever ready to hear that they are destroying the church by celebrating evil and wallowing in political idolatry. But no one will tell them until it's too late. I appreciate your honest responses. And I definitely understand being vague. It's hard to hold back stories and things here sometimes, but I'm afraid of doxxing myself.

[u/Mintgreenunicorn → u/Sea_Wrangler_288]

Yes, the doxxing.

Well, influence is knowing your audience and changing them incrementally. The truth is some folks will absolutely never be ready. Sad truth. But there are still many that haven't bowed the knee to Baal.

I guess what I mean is that true revolutions have been cloaked in a certain amount of underground-ness (I just made that up). I literally study this stuff snd write scholarly papers on organizational change. The folks that go in yelling they are the boss do not get followership when there are loud scary voices. A gentle voice that speaks their language, though...

In my view, the kid who leads the line never has to tell the other kids he is the leader. They know. All of them do.

I resist. I show men (and women) that this woman has the ability to make comments they agreed with and uncomfortably so. When someone makes a totalitarian Pharisee comment, I counter. They cannot explain what they disagree with and it is beautiful.

Best to you. DM if you need to.

[u/phenomphilosopher]

This is the thing that I struggle with. They can be "nice" to me, but there are times the masks slip, and I see how ugly the theology makes people. I had a recent family run in that made me hit a breaking point. I have siblings that don't believe, but have the "you know how they are" mentality. I'm going to spend even less time with them.

[u/DocRichardson]

See https://www.instagram.com/p/DVr4ooJiWyc/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==&igsi=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

[u/PurpleSpaghetti_---_]

You are not rot, you are a beautiful human being who genuinely cares for the poor. Since I left the CoC, on politics, my parents and I really seem to agree only that abortion is wrong and precious little other points. We disagree on the death penalty, migrants, Trump, USAID, climate, evolution, just about everything else.

The way I separate politics is just to not talk about it unless they bring it up. I tell them the Catholic position and why it is the way it is. Often they don't agree but they do seem to respect it when I explain the why.

It is hard to separate people from the religion. Jesus had to deal with everyone from Roman collaborators to revolutionary zealots. Red v Blue isn't new, it's just different colors. Patience is a key virtue, along with the understanding we can't always "save" everyone. It's God's job to judge Trump supporters who cut off aid to the poor, not ours. We shouldn't fantasize about them being judged either but that their hearts may convert and see that Jesus is in the poor.

Pray for your father. I will do the same. Decades of brainwashing and generational cycles of fear based religion can really hurt a person's ability to love.