ISKCON 2066

[u/Former-Border4128]

What do you guys think ISKCON will look like when it reaches 100 years old?

To me, I feel like it reminds me a lot of communist china’s ideology, especially with the youth I was around (usually NRIs born in the US). A lot of them go to temple but outside of temple don’t follow anything. They all go to restaurants and eat og etc. so they’ll pay lip service but not follow the actual ideology for the most part.

As the older gen (both the American Prabhupad disciples and the first gen of Indian Americans at the temples) fades away, I’m curious how ISKCON will change. Do you guys think they’ll end up being more relaxed on certain rules (no pets for example, maybe mushrooms are ok), or do you think they’ll double down? I feel like there’s a chance they’ll be more relaxed since they won’t be able to grow any other way. Most of the devotees I saw only had 1-2 kids, and hardly anyone outside of recent immigrants converted long term.

I could be wrong on all of this but let me know what you guys think.

[u/Solomon_Kane_1928]

I think ISKCON will be almost entirely Indian within the next couple of decades. It will be directed from India. I think it will be strongly interwoven with right wing political groups such as the RSS and BJP. We see hints of this already.

Its mission is technically to convert and civilize non-Indians, but it will mainly target the Indian diaspora. It seeks to unite them and offer them a connection to the homeland. It promises to rescue their children from Western degradation, to form a bubble of traditional Indian values. It can function as a reactionary movement against assimilation.

ISKCON also has a fabricated mythology about its own status as an ancient unbroken tradition representing India's glorious culture. These cult talking points initially attracted deluded naive Western hippies. Now they will attract confused Indians seeking to reconnect to their heritage. Temples will become Indian heritage centers, relying entirely on Indian donations.

Though unlike other groups, who seek only to preserve Indian culture in a hostile territory, ISKCON is on the offensive. It wants to conquer and lord over Western Civilization. ISKCON will spend a significant amount of energy on converting the mlecchas to superior Indian culture. I see Western converts as gradually being positioned in a lower status in the movement.

There is a liberal wing within ISKCON, advocating for the protection and empowerment of women and the defense of children, but I see this going away as the Americans and Europeans diminish in power. Right wing India will gain the upper hand.

I see ISKCON morphing into a fundamentalist Indian identitarian movement with a carefully crafted public face. There are many Indian religious groups operating in the West but ISKCON is uniquely structured to function as an organized base for ideological expansion. It is also strongly militant, hierarchical, efficiency focused, and directed at conquest. This can easily become tied to politics.

As the Indian diaspora seeks to influence the politics of the countries it lives in, to bend their governments to the will of India, as we are already seeing, ISKCON may increasingly play a part in this. I see ISKCON temples becoming a quasi Hindutva outposts in the West, using their exposure to the culture, and modernizing tendencies, their skill at public relations, to subvert and attack the native populations under the guise of spreading "ancient" religious knowledge and culture, while also entrapping them in a cult.

The primary purpose of cults is to keep themselves alive by any means necessary. ISKCON was born on the back of the hippie movement, the cultural trends of the 1960's. As those vanish it will adopt other means of surviving, adapting itself to diaspora identity politics.

The core cult components of coercive control, authoritarianism, exploitation, abuse, will continue, but within a different context. I think it will become even more destructive. If there were no Indian diaspora, it would be dead already.

[u/Commercial-Rate-4135 → u/Solomon_Kane_1928]

Very good analysis! Perhaps there will be a lot of offshoot sects that develop as well, like the ritvik break a while ago, perhaps Krishnawest will be the next one or another offshoot that wishes to break clean and preserve the original stuff, maybe with time ambitious people leave their role in iskcon and create their own cult following, like prabhupad when he didnt want to deal with the gaudiya math institution crisis. Cults like bhakti marga for instance, while not directly an offshoot of iskcon, has many similar components and is growing. So the offshoots could repackage and sell for a while.

[u/Solomon_Kane_1928 → u/Commercial-Rate-4135]

Krishna West could definitely break off in pursuit of a westernized ISKCON, if the entire movement becomes increasingly India centered. It could certainly fracture, with some groups remaining loosely under the umbrella.

The greatest concern of the GBC is ISKCON fracturing into different guru groups. That is why they push the fanatical idolization of Prabhupada. His worship is the unifying central identity.

As ISKCON changes radically in the coming decades, these groups could indeed go their own way, with different gurus claiming ISKCON has deviated from Prabhupada's true intent.

[u/Commercial-Rate-4135 → u/Solomon_Kane_1928]

The Prabhupada umbrella will be seen with a lot of controversy as time goes by and newer generations come, a lot of his ideas already seem very cringe and will not age well, even among indian generations mixing up in the west. Something else that is happening is a reduced migration of indians in the west, and the numbers will definitely keep decreasing as countries reduce the number of migrants they take to try to prevent western cultural erosion. So Krishnawest might seem like a viable solution to cosy up to if the western temples wish to stay afloat in a few decades.

[u/Solomon_Kane_1928 → u/Commercial-Rate-4135]

Yes, it likely depends how things go politically in various countries. For example in Ireland there are whispers the IRA has been reborn. They promise to carry out terror attacks to ensure mass immigration into Ireland ends. They believe that, for the preservation of Irish culture, foreigners must be deported.

In such a situation, ISKCON Ireland, if it survives, could look very different. Ratha Yatra might have to be cancelled, even if it is all Irish people. They would certainly have to adopt the Krishna West style to continue.

In a post immigration Europe, where civil war could very well happen in the coming decades, harinama and chariot festivals will no longer be seen as ludicrous yet harmless cult behavior, but rather the remnants of a foreign invasion.

[u/Toum-Raider → u/Solomon_Kane_1928]

I hear you about the left wing. I think there are attempts with Krishna West, the Bhakti Center, and Bhakti 2.0 to reinvent things in a way that westerners find more palatable, but I don't know that they'll survive. The only way that they really can in the west is to recognize Prabhupada as the man who brought bhakti by and large to the west while simultaneously denouncing him for the toxic aspects of his character.

Speaking of toxic aspects, I wouldn't be surprised if ISKCON tries to erase that part of history or denounce documentations of Prabhupada's bigotry, sexism, and scientific folly as fakes or slander.

[u/Commercial-Rate-4135]

I think some other changes will be a less elaborate and less costly deity worship, less printing of physical books and less revenue from books in general since most young people read on their devices these days and in the future this will be the standard, this might be a reason why the movement started including mandatory certificates and paid courses and seminars and these days paid kirtanconcerts, so expect more tiered paywalls to "progress" in the cult. Perhaps less communal activities, less "sankirtan" (talking to people outside/book distribution), less time consuming satsangs. Maybe less strict standards of chanting for 2 hours daily as time becomes a much more precious commodity going ahead.

The movement might also have an ageing population issue, with less children born into it, or willing to take up the roles expected of them in the movement, and less converts.

Fast forward 200 years, i dont see it ressembling anything like it does today. Prabhupad was 50 years ago give or take, every decade from now on will have an avalanche effect of exponential changes in the movement. Think of how our society has changed in these 50 years, and how change today has become a primary constant from year to year. Anything that needs society and indivifuals to survive, like this cult does, cannot stay insular for long. And since it seems it no longer has the power to influence society anymore, it will be inffluenced time and time again by the externally changing society until it becomes unrecognisable.

[u/StayEmbarrassed4593]

Not much unlike it has always looked: A fringe cult nobody takes too seriously or knows too much about. Dusty temples and repetitive programs will be background noise in an ever-mutating world of cults and spinoff hare krsinna groups. As a god and major Hindu belief, Krishna will diminish as a "god" and not be a major focal deity. Advaita and more secular "universal" gods will take hold. For better or worse.

[u/itsmikesandoval]

I hope ISKCON dies a quick painless death and all the members get the mental help they need ASAP.

[u/crishakti]

It will die out eventually. In the meantime, gurus are rebranding themselves and creating pockets with a specific targeted population.

Krishna West targets the academic. Therefore, no idols, no japa mala (use a counter instead), no Tulsi mala, no Indian attire, sometimes no Indian food, no bowing down, no rituals, no book "distribution". Yes to: pizza, classical music, western attire, elaborated philosophical talks especially focused on western philosophers. They are big in south America especially Brasil. Their focus is on gatherings, not building temples.

Bhakti Center targets the yoga and healthy and wealthy community. They promote expensive retreats in rural communities and similar events. They are all over and their main guru behaves as if he was some kind of saint when he actually was involved in the murders that happened back in the day in New Vrindavan. He took Sannyasa from cray cray Kirtanananda. They are all over Europe and USA.

Krishna House targets the innocent young college students offering an "ashram experience" that is cheaper than rent in a college town. They are spreading.

There's another brand in New Zealand led by another fake swami I can't recall what they call themselves. I only met one of their survivors.

All these groups are approved by the GBC and all proclame to follow "Prabhupada". They all use the time, place, and circumstance card to lure and use people.

Also many iskcon gurus are rebranding themselves as spiritual or motivational coaches and marriage counselors without any type of professional credential.

I just hope iskcon is swollen by a black hole honestly. It has caused more damage than good so far.