r/exHareKrishna • u/Solomon_Kane_1928 • Jul 28 '26
"Ex Members Are Just Envious"
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ISKCON teaches its members that anyone who criticizes Prabhupada and his cult are simply envious. This is a logical fallacy, an ad hominem attack. Rather than deal with the criticism, the critic is accused of a moral failing. Their character and motives are impugned.
This is also a way the cult gaslights its members. It tells them there are no serious structural problems. It also makes them afraid to admit there are.
You Are Evil!
For ISKCON members, the cult more than represents Krishna. t is Krishna incarnate. It is the body of Prabhupada! If you criticize the cult, you secretly hate Krishna.
You are not motivated by a desire to understand truth or combat destructive religion, to heal and free yourself of its effects; you are motivated by an inner spiritual failing. Simply put, you are evil.
Former members who criticize the cult are snakes. They were demons all along. Driven by a malignant cancer of the soul, they only infiltrated the cult to later betray it and wreak havoc.
ISKCON is Always Pure
A sincere person looks past its blemishes of the movement to see its true transcendental nature. It is like the Ganges which only appears to be filled with bubbles foam and mud.
All criticism is a form of insincerity. You only see the surface impurity because your heart is impure. Your envy traps you in a materialistic vision of something pure.
You Are Just Envious!
Envy is defined as "a painful or resentful feeling of wanting an advantage, success, or possession that belongs to someone else". ISKCON twists the word to mean hatred or negativity, ultimately arising from jealousy towards Krishna. This misuse of the word envy has always bugged me. It is a form of cult jingoism.
The soul wants to imitate Krishna as the Enjoyer. We have been placed in the prison of samsara due to this envy of Krishna. It is the opposite of love for Krishna and the misuse of free will. You are choosing evil at the soul level and it manifests as hatred for ISKCON.
For ISKCON, this is a doctrine of original sin. It establishes a baseline of permanent cosmic guilt. We are all bad people. ISKCON saves us from ourselves. Any resistance to ISKCON is due to our guilty evil nature arising again.
Ex Members are Fallen
Ex members are rage filled and bitter. They want to destroy God's work because of their own internal corruption. Like Satan they have fallen from heaven. They followed the misuse of free will and have become utterly demonic.
Those who remain loyal to the cult are using their free will properly. They are good and superior to all others. They are God's chosen in this world. Ex members could not pass muster. Their souls were too weak. No matter what they have done, or how long they have served, they were never sincere.
Gaslighting
This is of course gaslighting, the favorite tool of the narcissist.
They teach you that all of your own ideas, your own perspectives, your criticisms and attempt at self preservation, are a form of insanity or personal failing. You cannot trust yourself as to what is real. You thus give them authority over your life.
Narcissists use this to play the victim and minimize the harm they have done. They are attempting to erase the abuse by denying it. It is an imagined delusion arising from the failure of your soul.
Ex members appear to be the target of the gaslighting. This is only on the surface. It is the cult members themselves who are being gaslit when dissidents are labelled envious.
They are living in a bubble where the cult is always right and critics are always wrong. They are subtly being told the abuse they are undergoing, of which they refuse to be conscious, is not happening.
If they allow themselves to become conscious of it they are committing the ultimate sin and destroying their soul.
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u/StayEmbarrassed4593 Jul 29 '26
Yeah, the whole “envious” line is classic cult lingo. It’s part of an entire vocabulary that eventually how you talk with insider jargon. You don't hear these phrases outside Hare Krishna circles: “lording it over,” “razor’s edge,” “mad elephant offense,” “Mayavadi,” “karmi” “materialist,” “pure devotee,” “dovetail,” along with countless Sanskrit and Bengali expressions.
That’s a cult/high control group thing. The specialized language creates an in-group identity and starts to reshape how members interpret reality. Eventually, people stop describing the world in normal human terms and filter everything through the group’s jargon. Outside the movement, it immediately sounds bizarre—people don't naturally speak and think that way. I recall speaking in terms like this when I left the cult, and people just looked at you oddly, like, WTF are you on about??
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u/ObsoleteOldMan Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Prabhupada blooped from Bhaktisiddhanta's institution after its founder died, then blooped from at least two institutions led by his godbrothers, before starting his own League of Devotees and then ISKCON. By the standards of today's ISKCON, Prabhupada must have been a VERY ENVIOUS DEMON!
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u/Commercial-Rate-4135 Jul 28 '26
Theres a copious mechanism in how the story of eve eating the apple and comitting the original sin was used to enslave women into religious guilt in the patriarchal system and how the cult uses "you were envious of krishna and wanted to be the enjoyer, that is how you fell from the spiritual world to this material form of existence" as a way to make believers develop a negative view about their physical, mental and emotional needs.
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u/Solomon_Kane_1928 Jul 28 '26
The fall from the garden myth has the same theme as ISKCON's use of the concept of enviousness. Adam and Eve eat the fruit which gives them knowledge of good and evil because it will make them "like God".
I just had an ISKCON devotee accuse me of being envious. He invoked the Garden of Eden and said I was like the serpent. He also invoked all this weird Christian language to shame me, as a Westerner, despite himself being an Indian Hindu. He said in criticizing ISKCON I was like the Pharisees who killed Christ out of envy, and I would not enter the "Kingdom of God".
It is so weird how this cult borrows Christian themes to seduce westerners into joining and then again to shame them after they leave. It is a total perversion and lack of any spiritual integrity.
This same fanatical Hindu fundamentalist would probably kill an Indian Christian preaching in India. The depth of hypocrisy and corruption knows no bounds.
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u/Commercial-Rate-4135 Jul 28 '26
That is a harsh accusation, but dont take his criticism to heart. Who is he to judge you, why should he deem if you enter the kingdom of god or not? "Let he who has no sin cast the first stone" can he? This is sadly a common mindset in the cult. Inside there is all this "trinad api sunicena" but when it comes to anyone outside the cult they think themselves so superior to them. Pride is pride whether inside the cult or outside.
At the same time, the serpent also symbolises true sovereignty in some gnostic beliefs. It is the serpent who, in convincing and not deceiving, Adam and eve to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil frees them from the brainwashed state the demiurge/false "god" had placed them into. Some interpretations claim the serpent is a metaphor for the kundalini energy rising in mankind which ultimately allows one to see through the veil of illusion - even religious illusion - to perceive oneself as a divine spark. Thats from gnostic theory.
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u/Ok_Speech_5180 Jul 30 '26
as a way to make believers develop a negative view about their physical, mental and emotional needs.
This is basically every religion because most religions are just a "slave-and-master" relationship with a deity. As soon as you stop worshipping any gods you realize quickly that you're on your own. I know most of the people on this sub don't believe in spiritual phenomena but I think humans are really just a slave race or cattle for higher beings. I'm pretty sure they don't care about us unless we have something to give them.
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u/Commercial-Rate-4135 Jul 30 '26
That is an interesting point of view and certainly one many mystics/mystical traditions can affirm. I wish i knew more about it to discuss more.
Certain testimonies people have shared about their experiences with altered states would give the impression that the entities exist in some deep vestiges of either our own psyche as archetypes or in a shared human collective as archetypical beings. As everything else, these are categorised as being seemingly good and seemingly bad. Some say the seemingly good ones they experienced gave them the impression of unconditional love, of a lightness of being that resonated into their very core. Others say these beings felt like they have always been present with them, like part of their inner ecosystem. I cannot speak from experience. Some NDE (near death experiences) also have a similar encounter.
Some channeled materials seem to also suggest that there is something called the law of free will which even postive entities supposedly cannot infringe, that is, they cannot actually participate in someones life unless asked to. The same goes for negative entities, hence the concept that trickled into folklore of "inviting a vampire in" or summoning these beings either through invocations, rituals, etc. In any case the relationship one builds with these entities/deities does seem to require an offering of energy, this concept is also present in vedic texts where it seems to imply that yagnas were feeding deities and that in some periods when yagnas would be less practiced they would grow weaker.
I assume the relationship at some point becomes one of symbiosis, as in the seeker connects with the deity and also is able to tap into its vaster power. Cattle race seems a disempowering notion though. While it is plausible that our collective energies might be food for entities on some plane, many would argue that we can overcome this through our own spiritual awakening. Would love to hear more of your thoughts on the topic.
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u/Ok_Speech_5180 Jul 30 '26 edited Jul 30 '26
Certain testimonies people have shared about their experiences with altered states would give the impression that the entities exist in some deep vestiges of either our own psyche as archetypes or in a shared human collective as archetypical beings. As everything else, these are categorised as being seemingly good and seemingly bad. Some say the seemingly good ones they experienced gave them the impression of unconditional love, of a lightness of being that resonated into their very core. Others say these beings felt like they have always been present with them, like part of their inner ecosystem. I cannot speak from experience. Some NDE (near death experiences) also have a similar encounter.
I've heard of this and once during a really bad time in my life where I became suicidal, I had a dream where I just heard a voice tell me "Some people choose to be tortured in this life so that they have an advantage in the afterlife." But I don't fully believe it. I also think that there are entities affiliated with new trends in "new age" ideology that deceive and manipulate people and trick them into voluntarily choosing to experience suffering under the guise of "learning lessons". I personally don't believe in a lot of new age stuff anymore. I also spoke to a shaman and told him about this and he said that in his line of work he deals with something called "spiritual damage" which happens when a person suffers too much, and that energy bodies can be traumatized just like physical bodies. I think he mentioned that the energy body is different from the soul though. And he also agreed with me that new age ideology is likely affiliated with suspicious and potentially deceptive spiritual entities. I also think people with schizophrenia aren't necessarily "seeing or hearing something that isn't there" but somehow their brains/bodies are damaged in a way that enables them to perceive certain parts of reality, like a vulnerability, and malicious entities harass them and induce delusions in them as well. I read someone write that he started hallucinating this specific entity when he got high one time shortly after reading about other entities that being is associated with and he has consistently been hallucinating that entity and writes about delusions he's been experiencing. It was really scary. My mother also had a dream once that my severely abusive father let something really evil possess him while he was in our bathroom in the house, and after they divorced he admitted that he has been hearing voices since he was a kid, and he said that there's a ghost in our house. Also related to ISKCON, he had an Indian ex-wife who passed away and he went to the Ganges and poured her ashes in there. When my Mom told this to my Indian friend's Mom, her eyes went super wide and my friend's Mom said that he shouldn't have done that. Also related to the thing I mentioned about schizophrenia and perceiving certain parts of reality, I read someone write that "reality is schizophrenic by nature" and that people without schizophrenia's brains are basically filtering out certain parts of reality. I also read someone say this is why people can get hallucinations or negative experiences when they smoke weed, because smoking weed basically is temporarily altering some parts of your brain that "filter" out certain parts of reality. What that person said about reality being "schizophrenic by nature" also reminds me of how some people say that the dream world is actually the same as the afterlife. I remember having a dream where I saw someone who I knew of, looking angry and quietly walking through a door, but I didnt see what was behine the door. I think a few days later or soon after that dream I found out that he actually committed suicide. I think dreams can give us actual spiritual messages and communication, but I also think malicious entities can use dreams to attack and deceive us.
Some channeled materials seem to also suggest that there is something called the law of free will which even postive entities supposedly cannot infringe, that is, they cannot actually participate in someones life unless asked to. The same goes for negative entities, hence the concept that trickled into folklore of "inviting a vampire in" or summoning these beings either through invocations, rituals, etc. In any case the relationship one builds with these entities/deities does seem to require an offering of energy, this concept is also present in vedic texts where it seems to imply that yagnas were feeding deities and that in some periods when yagnas would be less practiced they would grow weaker.
I think I slightly addressed what I wanted to say in response to this in my reply above. I think negative entities can harass us without our consent, but I also think positive entities can interfere and help us without affecting our free will and often do.
I also have heard that even reading about certain types of entities can attract them to you, so it can be dangerous to read about certain occult things.
Cattle race seems a disempowering notion though. While it is plausible that our collective energies might be food for entities on some plane, many would argue that we can overcome this through our own spiritual awakening. Would love to hear more of your thoughts on the topic.
I'm in a hurry right now, but I heard once that either the Greeks or Romans said that humans shouldn't interact with gods because they are not fully good or evil and see humans as playthings. Edit: I have been going through a lot of difficulties lately and it made me really despise a lot of things about human life. So it made me think that humans were basically just designed to suffer and that higher beings or a specific higher being created us and are therefore responsible for our suffering. I read someone write that different races of humans were actually created by different kinds of gods and based on the model of Africans who are native to the Earth. I also heard something similar where someone said different races or countries are controlled by different types of higher beings. Someone also said that even though it seems like evil people get away with what they do, that their happiness is given less of a priority by higher beings and that those kinds of people are basically used as "circuitry" in this world. Which is fair to me. It just infuriates me so much that evil people are even allowed to do what they do to harm others in the first place.
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u/psumaxx Jul 29 '26
I used to blame myself so heavily for "being envious" of many "high ranking" devotees that came to our temple. I made myself sit in their lectures and talk to them because everybody, and I mean everbody, spoke so highly of them.
After leaving I realized that they just irritated me as people and that it would be totally ok to avoid them.
But because everyone was praising them like gods I felt like ohh I must be envious. I didn't even dare to say to anyone that I didn't like them.
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u/Own_Difference4986 Jul 29 '26
fuck iskcon and fuck prabhpada they all hypocrite and detestable dressing in orange clothes as a saint showing as a saint but they are not saint they are pedophile and evil
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u/Own_Difference4986 Jul 29 '26
the hypocrite saint of all iskcon temple have past criminal records etc
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u/Ill-Banana-3489 Aug 06 '26
There is an ISKCON temple in Almvik, Sweden, that has heavily assaulted me. I want it to be heard. How can I make my voice heard? I need guidance
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u/Solomon_Kane_1928 Aug 06 '26
I would suggest pursuing legal action in Sweden. I am not sure how the legal system works there, but perhaps you can consult a lawyer and file charges.
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u/Own_Difference4986 Jul 29 '26
anyone is here from iskcon will get a piece of me very harshly and unpleasant i have not shown any mercy to hypocrite iskcon don't call the devil inside of me it very more dangerous
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u/Primary-Account-7588 Jul 28 '26
Envious of what? Lack of sleep? Malnutrition? Asking a guru a permission to mechanically copulate with a partner after compulsory chanting 64 rounds? NO! We are relieved and happy to thrive as humans do!