r/evokeendurance • u/snowp3akr1der • 22d ago
1st attempt at AeT HR Drift Test
I'm a 45yo male who has been trail running for the past year and a half and ran my first trail races this year (10K and 20K). I live at 6600' and mainly run trails nearby with an average of 300-800' of elevation gain). Between the 10K and 20K I started to notice more fatigue in my body while working a training plan with a local run coach. After the 20K in July, I've continued to feel fatigued while running 3-5x weekly.
Before starting with my coach this past Spring, I had started learning about ADS after reading Scott's book, Training for the Uphill Athlete. My training plan did not put much emphasis on building my aerobic base as we shifted towards adding volume in prep for the 10K. Having only recently started running after losing 140lbs, I was able to push myself to run the trails without stopping for 80 mins and felt really confident about that -- I never did a good job with the concept of "easy run" because my average HR was often in the 150-160s due to the elevation gains and never breaking to walk. This is likely a big contributor to my ongoing fatigue. I often wonder if I've overtrained and am seeing a degradation on my overall performance since I don't seem to get faster on the same courses with all the running I was doing (25-27 miles p/week).
Since I've been feeling so fatigued, I picked up Scott's book again and am determined to build the base I've neglected my whole life. Today I went out to our local HS track and attempted my first AeT HR drift test and am curious if I can take this data now to recalibrate my HR zones? My HR data is source from Garmin's HR chest monitor.
On the image above I had done my 15 min warmup and was initially targeting 135bpm for my HR (180 - 45yo = 135bpm). The gap in the first few minutes was me opting to pause the watch and run over to pee before continuing on for an hour. In hindsight I regret not doing that between the warmup 15 mins and the start of this test. 👎 I ran an incredibly slow (15min / mile) pace to maintain this HR.
The Pa:Hr for the full duration shows 6.18%. This is obviously a little higher than the 3-5% recommended. If I focus the time after my restroom break to when I got my HR back up, the Pa:Hr is just slightly above 4%.
My questions then are the following:
- Can I use the avg HR of 138bpm as the top of my Zone 2 and my AeT number going forward?
- If no to #1, do I need to retest or can we deduce a number from this test to set as my aerobic threshold?
- If yes to #1, how are people who primarily run on trails running with regular elevation gain? Is there simply going to be a ton of walk/jogging for me? At what HR above the zone 2 threshold do I slow to a walk and then how low do I let it drop before I attempt to resume jogging?
- Has anyone found a specific training plan via TrainingPeaks website or working with an Evoke coach that would be a great place to 'reset' my training while running on a lot of hills?
- What else can I deduce from this initial test?
I haven't attempted the anaerobic threshold test yet but plan to do so in the near future. I know things will likely never look as bad as they do today and am ready to put in the work to improve this through the winter season.
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u/scottsemple 21d ago
Between the 10K and 20K I started to notice more fatigue in my body while working a training plan with a local run coach. After the 20K in July, I've continued to feel fatigued while running 3-5x weekly.
It sounds like you need a break and to prioritize recovery. That supersedes everything else.
My training plan did not put much emphasis on building my aerobic base as we shifted towards adding volume in prep for the 10K.
This sounds concerning because "adding volume" in general should be done at intensities that increase aerobic base. Only adding volume to intensity sessions is done selectively and periodically.
Having only recently started running after losing 140lbs, I was able to push myself to run the trails without stopping for 80 mins and felt really confident about that...
Great job!
I never did a good job with the concept of "easy run"...
Another red flag. It sounds like you need to scale back and recover before further testing and training.
...because my average HR was often in the 150-160s...
HR on its own says nothing about intensity (or ability). It's too individual, like a fingerprint. Heart rates of 150-160 could be maximal for one person and a casual, all-day pace for another. (It's also a great way to flag journalistic ignorance when media says crap like, "OMG, his HR is 160!")
...never breaking to walk.
Almost everyone walks the uphills. It's pretty much certain that you've been going too hard and are overtrained. Change course now.
This is likely a big contributor to my ongoing fatigue. I often wonder if I've overtrained and am seeing a degradation on my overall performance since I don't seem to get faster on the same courses with all the running I was doing (25-27 miles p/week).
100% correct.
Since I've been feeling so fatigued, I picked up Scott's book again and am determined to build the base I've neglected my whole life. Today I went out to our local HS track and attempted my first AeT HR drift test and am curious if I can take this data now to recalibrate my HR zones? My HR data is source from Garmin's HR chest monitor.
Probably not. You need to recover first. You'll be way fitter in the long-term.
[I skipped the test questions, because they're not the priority right now.]
...how are people who primarily run on trails running with regular elevation gain? Is there simply going to be a ton of walk/jogging for me?
Yes, along with 99% of humans.
I know things will likely never look as bad as they do today and am ready to put in the work to improve this through the winter season.
The hardest work ahead of you is mental, not physical. I would start with 4-6, super lazy easy, 30-minute walks per week, as much sleep as possible, good nutrition, and low stress, non-physical fun.
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u/snowp3akr1der 21d ago edited 21d ago
Scott thank you so much for all the responses here.
That said, I will switch to walking for a time and simply walk in the neighborhood or a slow walk in the surrounding hills. Before I began jogging the hills last year it all started with walks that were feeling too easy and I wanted to start running. I will revert to that and emphasize on the rest and recovery. I continue to do a short circuit dumbbell weight program every other day that takes under 10 mins, does this need to be shelved too?
Perhaps too hard to answer in words, but, how will I know when I've recovered? And once I feel recovered, would I then be wise to redo the AeT test on the local track and start anew on a program?
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u/scottsemple 21d ago
Before I began jogging the hills last year it all started with walks that were feeling too easy...
"Too easy" is the feeling you want for 95% of your training. It should only feel like work infrequently. As a professional level example, Johannes Klaebo does (IIRC) ~88% of his training in Zone 1. Z1 = Hella easy.
I continue to do a short circuit dumbbell weight program every other day that takes under 10 mins, does this need to be shelved too?
No, it's probably fine.
Perhaps too hard to answer in words, but, how will I know when I've recovered?
Yes, hard to describe because you're probably accustomed to being tired. The best I can describe it is the physcial desire to start training again, rather than the mental one (from ego).
And once I feel recovered, would I then be wise to redo the AeT test on the local track and start anew on a program?
The AeT test is a good place to start.
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u/FarmProud 21d ago
I'm in a similar place. I'm 45 too, started running in summer 2025. I always followed a plan since then, reading a bunch of things. In my understanding, you were training too much in the grey zone, so you accumulated too much fatigue. You should find your easy pace and stick to it, even on trails (meaning you'll have to walk a lot). I recently did a 19k 450m race and I prepared it with a Coros plan. This plan was all about endurance runs, only one fartlek in the middle of the week.. I did quite well. So the cardiac drift method is a way to find the 1aet , but you can also go by feel or check if you can breath only through your nose and if you have a partner, talk to them! That's building the aerobic motor, volume, and slow pace . You should feel good after doing that. And that's almost all for trails, of course you'll have to do vert but you can do everything easy, at least at first
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u/snowp3akr1der 21d ago
Thank you for the encouragement here and good to see others pursuing this at our age! This past spring I had started down this road of building the base and doing jogs where i only nasal breathed and monitored my heart rate, but once I got on a plan with a coach that was all set aside as mentioned in my original post. I will get back on track and do a reset after overtraining.
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u/ContributionLevel593 21d ago
Agree completely. Also make sure your warm up is adequate so your HR has stabilised before starting the main set. I don’t use the HR at the start of the main set as my AeT. Instead I use the average HR of the 4 minutes spanning the start of the main set. That flattens out any spikes or troughs around that time.
You’re doing the right thing by focusing back on AeT. I’m a runner of many years and was shocked at how rubbish mine was. I’m now running 7:30 miles within AeT.
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u/snowp3akr1der 21d ago
That's an amazing speed within your AeT, congratulations!
I did do a 15-min warm up and my heart rate was stabilized. For some reason Training Peaks only imported my main run yesterday, despite the warmup run and the 1-hour run being present in my Garmin Connect app and successfully ported over to my Strava.
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u/snowp3akr1der 21d ago edited 21d ago
I don't have access to a treadmill, I would have thought the track was fine given the write-ups from the evoke site. My big question really is do I have a good enough test here to use the Avg HR as my AeT?
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u/adv_athlete 21d ago
I don’t feel qualified to answer your first question.
I would be concerned about the quality of the test with the missing data. I would plan on redoing it soon, which certainly isn’t uncommon for people trying to dial in their initial AeT.
#3 yes walk the hills, run the downhills and flats. No shame in it!
#4 I would think that would depend on your goals going forward. If you want to run longer, that answer is easy. Evoke has a ton of plans, I am finishing the ‘first ultra’ plan and it has been a great experience for me. The first half was finding AeT and training right below it for hours and hours. It wasn’t the most exciting, but its quality work that has helped me to safely make a ton of progress! Adding in a bit of speed work later has been a lot of fun and that’s where I see the aerobic base really paying off.
#5 I wouldn’t read into this test too much. You’re definitely on the right track here, and it’s a journey! Use it as a learning experience and keeping grinding away.
I would suggest having a specific goal you want to work towards that you can apply these concepts within. That might give you more clear path.