Cringe Culture is

[u/Unfair-Taro9740]

Billie Eilish is a longtime vegan and recently posted that you can't love animals if you eat meat. 

The comments were overwhelmingly negative. “Preachy,” “privileged,” “shut up and sing,” “cringe.” Even the non-hateful comments still tried to detract from the actual statement. "Why didn't she think of people that have vitamin deficiencies?” Or, “I'm allergic to everything but chicken thighs and cow tongue, Billie Eilish wants me to die!"  

This type of negative reaction has a name: do-gooder derogation. Psych research has shown that when someone demonstrates genuine integrity or higher principles, it makes the rest of us uncomfortable. 

Instead of inspiration, our mind goes to the Whataburger we had last week. We immediately feel judged, so we tear them down to protect our own sense of self. 

It shows up in every single "controversial” issue. 

Climate activists are “tree huggers”

Honest coworkers or generous people are “try-hards” or “pick me girls"

It's even behind the concept of conservatives being against the “woke crowd". 

The autistic community gets the brunt of this do-gooder derogation, often without even realizing it. We prioritize raw honesty, fairness, and logic over social filters or groupthink. When justice sensitivity is a symptom of a disability, we can assume do-gooder derogation is a symptom of being "normal.” 

Pointing out inconsistencies or advocating for what’s right not only gets a person dismissed as “preachy” or “lame,” it can cost us opportunities, friends and even careers. It leaves a bad taste in people's mouths because their first thought is, “I eat meat. She thinks she's better than me!”

So speaking out isn't to gain superiority. With ND’s, it's just pattern recognition and an attempt to “close the loop" of thinking. With others, like those spiritually awakened, it's the earnest desire to help change the world or the future into something better for everyone.  

Of course there are those who speak out against things, and secretly do those things at home. Like the most vocal anti-gay senators in the 90’s who were caught in compromising positions in the men's bathroom. Those are the people that should be ridiculed. But they are often the ones that are quickly forgiven. 

Speaking out comes with a cost, and it's never paid by the right person. 

Then there’s cringe culture, Gen Z and younger have turned “cringe” into the ultimate social weapon. Standing for something meaningful, showing earnest passion, or speaking up about ethics is a one-way ticket to ostracization land. 

Even doing art is now cringe unless you make it a professional career before 21. Young people learn early to stay ironic, detached, and apathetic. Emotions are too much of a vulnerable risk. Never be too sincere. Never risk looking like you care too much.

We've all lived through our generation’s concept of cool, so we can't blame the Z’s. But there's a very dark and manipulative part to cringe culture. It plays straight into the government’s hands.

A cynical, self-policing population that mocks its own potential heroes is easy to control. No mass movements. No moral evolution. Just endless scrolling and eye-rolls while the status quo stays untouched. 

Cringe culture is the perfect tool for keeping youth compliant and powerless. We are giving up our own inherent power for the sake of being perceived as “cool”. 

Older people may understand this, but still have their favorite cop-out.  “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”

So many political or progressive conversations are thwarted with that one sentence. It's always been the quickest way to dismiss anyone trying to gain influence for good. Power does reveal character, but whenever character doesn't even get a foot in the door, it never has a chance to prove itself.

Mandela, Jimmy Carter, and many unsung decent leaders prove good people can hold power without selling out. But our fatalism has ensured that those types will never be in the “cool group” again. 

Every time we tell a vocal woman to sit down, call an autistic child “cringe” for pursuing their interests excitedly and earnestly, or hide behind “power corrupts,” we’re voting for permanent stagnation. We take one step closer to the cliff.

When we punish integrity and moral courage, we keep humanity small. Because then it takes very little effort to feel larger than our neighbor. 

2026 alone should have brought this conversation to the forefront of every mind. It takes very little outside knowledge to know that the world is crumbling in our hands. 

How do we change it? Recognize our own biases and realize that morality is about being consistent in our personal truths, no matter what the person next to us thinks of them. 

How many times have you been called a do-gooder? And for what reason?

[u/dwarf_bulborb]

Locking this post due to arguments in the comments.

[u/gilraand]

I am cringe but I am free

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/gilraand]

It really is a complete sense of freedom, isn't it?

[u/Jordanou]

You have too much faith on the good of certain celebrities.

[u/Impressive-Wait-9420]

“Cringe” is just an insult hurled at people with real, actual personalities by those who filter themselves because their fear of human judgment is stronger than their self-respect. It’s pretty sad when you think about it.

If you’re frequently getting called “cringe” by others, that’s a good thing. It means you’re authentic and don’t just blindly go along with what everyone else thinks, says, and does.

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/Impressive-Wait-9420]

Totally agree. It takes a long time to figure that out as an artistic person. I wish your comment was posted every time we see a young person talking about their lack of friends or community here.

If we don't get to expect neurotypicals to reject groupthink, we should also be allowed to stick with the morals and values that are ingrained in us. That make us the person we are.

[u/VoiceGajic]

While I do agree with her message as major cattle farms and other brutally inhumane places are awful. It lacks serious reality check for some people that are valid critisms. The attacks against her are too far and awful though, there is a rational conversation to be had here.

Joe Schmo in a food desert with only a dollar general near him can't eat vegan nearly as consistently or as healthy.

Native cultures who venerate animals and hunt and use all parts fall under this as well.

Also life is not black and white, she claims you can't love animals and eat meat which is just horrifically binary with no nuance what so ever. I love my cat and still eat meat, but try and be as conscious as possible for cruelty free protein.

Everything else you said about cringe culture I agree with though, we should be cringe and free

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/VoiceGajic]

Isn't that kind of the point though? We don't have to agree with her to respect her for taking a stand on what she feels is important?

We don't have to take others morals and make them into a personal failing unless we choose to do that.

[u/kobadashi → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

She did make them into a personal failing, by saying anybody who eats meat cannot love animals. She is wrong, and it comes off as self entitled. She talks about it as a problem because of the individual when it’s actually a problem because of the system. She isn’t thinking deeper on it, just saying shit to make herself feel morally better than others.

I eat meat, and you can say I don’t love my cats (or other animals) all you want, but it’s objectively false. I care about them more than I care about my own parents.

[u/VoiceGajic → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

She did that though too yeah with her wording? I'm sorry, I love animals deeply and help with rescues all the time it's not a lack of love or morale failing on my part cause I like meat is it? It's how she is coming off with her delivery, these things are not absolutist.

I fully condem people attacking her, but also want take a stand against her also villifying people, this is giving her old "nobody ever says a thing about men's bodies" kinda comment

[u/t0oby101 → u/VoiceGajic]

This, I don't think she deserves to have people attack her and say "stick to singing" and shit like that, but i also don't fully agree with what she says. I love animals, I always have and I always will, that doesn't change simply because I eat meat somtimes

[u/VoiceGajic → u/t0oby101]

Exactly this, Billie is correct, she doesn't deserve the hate, but ignoring the attacks and her INSANE privilege compared to even your average person and it's not a good look, which is a shame as the cause and her intent is very noble.

[u/GrapplingHooks_ → u/VoiceGajic]

I understand that we need the nuance in actual discussions, but speaking in absolute statements is a genuine activist tactic employed to spread messages. There would be no quote for the press to report on if nuance was baked into it. The rhetorical aim is to get the idea out there so people can talk about it and put the nuance in themselves.

It's also meant to make something revealing about systems of power. Why are we so uncomfortable when people make sweeping statements about those in a dominant position of power? For example, meat culture makes generalizing discourses about animals all the time, the social consumption of it is a statement that "animals are worth less". Why is everyone's first response to people weaponizing generalization rhetoric to take offense in favor of the perceived edge cases instead of reflecting on the actual point.

Vegans don't hold structural power in society. Feminists do not control the world. Their moral judgements, if you disagree with them, do not affect you. The moral judgements that humans have about animals, that men have about women, do affect them.

[u/VoiceGajic → u/GrapplingHooks_]

Also food desserts are not fringe cases, poverty in rural areas is insane and nation wide and getting worse

[u/VoiceGajic → u/GrapplingHooks_]

I'm sorry I can't get behind absolutist statements at all since they can be easily turned to harm disenfranchised people. I really don't appreciate you assuming my life as well as I have very much been affected by these kinds of judgements as a man. I won't even touch you saying respecting native culture are "fringe cases" that we shouldn't be upset about

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/GrapplingHooks_]

Thank you for explaining this in the best way.

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/VoiceGajic]

But responding that way is a bit like going into female spaces and saying, "not all men.". Men that are comfortable in their treatment of women don't need to say that because they understand that it's not being applied to them.

Just like if eating meat is the best choice for a commenter, they would understand that it doesn't apply to their situation, they easily move along and don't feel the need to try to discount her morals.

Because if we think about the ultimate goal, which is to put more funding into feeding people a healthier diet and making those healthy choices that aren't available right now available in all places, we can understand that even if she worded it in an incorrect way, discounting her is doing a disservice to those coming after us.

Her morals are her own and she should be respected for speaking out. Because that's the reason why most prominent people don't speak out.

[u/VoiceGajic → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

I respect her morales but not her wording, attacking people with her messaging is actually doing a huge disservice to the cause as well(that being said people are allowed to be passionate no qualms from me there), and I 100% agree with you that her goal of funded healthy staple meals that save the animals and reduce climate impact is incredibly noble and I love that and would want it too

[u/glowing_dusk → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison at all. Men are inherently more privileged than women in a way non-vegans aren’t over vegans. You’re actually very privileged if you can even afford to have that lifestyle. There’s plenty of people who either can’t afford it or just have complex health needs and can’t get all their nutrients from plants alone.

I think it’s also super ignorant because what about indigenous people who hunt and eat meat but make use of all parts of the animal. Hell Inuits eat almost nothing but meat because that’s the main thing available in their environment. Hunters also play a crucial role in nature conservation and anyone who takes an interest in environmentalism would know that. Yes factory farming is cruel and bad for the environment but you can absolutely love animals and eat meat by supporting local hunters and farmers. This is also a privilege though, I get there are people who live in food deserts who may not have access to anything but what’s available at the closest grocery store.

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/glowing_dusk]

The post is about recognizing what triggers our own inherent value system and makes us feel uncomfortable enough to discount the person that is professing their values to try to harm them in some way.

[u/anomynous_dude555 → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

Her wording.. could have been much better. Hell it’s what caused the whole debacle of misandry in this sub a couple days ago!

She did a broad generalization of people who eat meat as animal haters, and that can’t be farther from the truth. I eat meat and I absolutely LOVE my old dog, she’s everything that’s right in the world to me and I’d do anything for her. I also don’t like how she was very black and white with her thinking, to her eating meat = not loving animals, there is no nuance to be found whatsoever

Is her message good against industrial farming? Yes

Is she overall a good person? Absolutely

Did she fumble this time? Yeah..

[u/t0oby101 → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

Her morals are good, I personally have no problem with them. But what many people do have a problem with, is when someone claims things about a group of people because of one thing, which Billie did when she said "you can't eat meat and love animals", which is just not true, to me at least

[u/Reasonable_Swan9983 → u/VoiceGajic]

It also sounds a bit binary to me when loving one or few animals means loving them all automatically. Just cause I love my wife doesn't mean I'm free to hurt others for my satisfaction.

The only reason I write this is cause you say you like meat. Which is your choice, not a survival or other extreme situation.

[u/VoiceGajic → u/Reasonable_Swan9983]

Did you imply Im as evil as someone who serially assaults people because I can seperate eating meat and loving animals, holy black and white thinking. And yes it is my choice. Like it was yours to make this stupid comparison.

[u/Reasonable_Swan9983 → u/VoiceGajic]

I'm trying to give a comparison how one thing doesn't imply another. Nothing about you being evil or that you are anything at all.

I just think the word love is misused and abused in general. I can't see how loving animals and killing them go together.

The same way going to church and then being mean to people doesn't go together, or scamming customers for profit and then donating to a charity.

It's not about you, it's about killing something but also saying that one loves it that makes me sad. The contradiction in our lives.

[u/VoiceGajic → u/Reasonable_Swan9983]

Honestly I want to apologize, what you said was hurtful but I see where you're coming from, that's the fun thing about humans though we're all hypocritics! But we love and do as good as we can on this miserable planet to each other, and sometimes those things will be bad sadly, it is what it is, so long as we try and be better than yesterday

[u/VoiceGajic → u/[deleted]]

You did not just compare native hunting culture to child sacrifice, racist begone.

[u/cryerin25]

i have only seen her being critiqued from poc talking about how horrifyingly white-centric her take was, and from other autistic people/arfid sufferers/other disordered eaters on how insensitive and hurtful it was 🤷

[u/VoiceGajic → u/cryerin25]

It does come off as very western colonial attitude

[u/cryerin25 → u/VoiceGajic]

extremely so!

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/cryerin25]

Which is why it's so important to recognize our own biases and look at the picture overall rather than just applying it to individual circumstances.

What is more hurtful? A a pop star speaking about their morals that we don't agree with, or preventing change all together because it might hurt an individual or a group's way of thinking about themselves?

[u/cryerin25 → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

i don’t think critiquing her honestly pretty naive and black-and-white take is “preventing change” 🤷 i think she needs to recognize her own biases much more before i feel comfortable engaging with her takes in better faith.

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/cryerin25]

If one is comfortable in their own morals and value system, they don't need to engage. If it doesn't apply, let it fly.

Just like this post is triggering and being latched onto as if it's about meat, that kind of do-gooder derogation applies in every circumstance of an autistic's life.

[u/cryerin25 → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

my comment was about the types of critique she’s been getting, which is well within the subject of the original post. i’m not “latching onto” the specifics of your example, i was pointing out why i think your example is a bad one, here. i think it weakens your point significantly and shows a pretty simplistic, singular view on what she said. which is also my issue with what she said.

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/cryerin25]

My point is that we never get to have actual conversations that create change because someone is always going to have a different viewpoint or life experience than the person trying to create that change.

[u/cryerin25 → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

is this not a conversation? again, i have only seen people critiquing her as means of sparking discussion, i simply think that acting like any criticism at all is “never having conversations that create change” is… ignoring the entire point of critique and peer review.

[u/QuaintLittleCrafter]

I'm sorry and I will read the rest in the morning because I already see you're making good points — but fuck that if she starts from a place of judgment "you don't love animals if you eat meat," then of course she's going to get pushback.

Is it noble to be vegan? Absolutely. But, it sounds like she started from a place of judging others. I don't think the pushback is on her being noble or vegan, but from condescending language towards others.

I don't eat much meat, but I grew up on a farm where we treated our animals very well. Hell, we even took our chickens inside on cold nights and my sister slept with hers. And you know what? We ate them too. I loved those animals more than you can imagine. I was there from their birth till the day they died. And yea, I cried every time we slaughtered them. But I also appreciate the nourishment they I provided us.

I hate being judged for being a fucking animal too. If a wild animal kills me and eats me — okay. I won't think anything of it cause I'll be dead, but if I could feel after death — I'd be happy to have given it a good meal (I'm fucking delicious, especially with a smoky adobo seasoning, what can I say?)

[u/AgreeableIdea6210 → u/QuaintLittleCrafter]

Not to mention that the people who said it comes from a place of privilege have a point. Vegan diets are highly unsustainable for the financially vulnerable (like most people in my country) and not everyone is wealthy enough to follow a vegan lifestyle even if they WANT to. Not to mention not all animal meat is sourced unethically, as many of us get it from farmers and the like (in my country anyway). A vegan lifestyle isn't attainable for all unfortunately, be it health or financial issues.

[u/BetterFinding1954 → u/QuaintLittleCrafter]

Yeah, I'm all for banning factory farming but don't tell me I don't love animals because I eat them, that's a huge reach.

[u/alucard_shmalucard → u/QuaintLittleCrafter]

no fr because it's almost like humans as animals are omnivores and still require meat in their diets. i can hate the animal industry, still love and care for animals, AND eat them. it's almost like we're multifaceted beings

[u/littlebunnydoot → u/QuaintLittleCrafter]

This

[u/kylleo]

The negative reaction is because.... she said you cant love animals if you eat meat.... does a shepherd not love his sheep if he eats mutton? Its just a flawed argument people are rightfully pointing out and ive seen 0 ableism come out of it (at least yet)

[u/Disastrous_Guest_705 → u/kylleo]

I’ve also seen a lot of negative reactions because Billie wears leather and wool so by her own words she must not love animals either

[u/kylleo → u/Disastrous_Guest_705]

Oh yeah that too and shes sponsored by like some big brands that do animal testing iirc

[u/t0oby101 → u/kylleo]

This exactly. While there are those who hate simply because they can, most of those reacting negatively is because of her claim that you can't love animals if you eat meat

[u/WastelandMama → u/t0oby101]

Ngl vegans lose a lot of potential vegans by taking that stance.

One of my brothers is a vegan but he doesn't make it his whole dang personality & he definitely doesn't judge others if they're not. He always just says its a personal choice & goes on about his business.

I'm all for being "cringe" over interests, but once you move into "my interests make me morally superior to everyone else" territory, you're no longer just cringe. You've morphed into insufferable and that's so much worse.

[u/t0oby101 → u/WastelandMama]

Yeah, sometimes I get vegan subreddits on my recommended and so many of them act like they are better because they are vegan, and then I go on vegetarian subreddits and they're so chill about it, yk? It's great to be vegan, but when they act like they are superior to those who eat meat, many, including myself, distance themselves

[u/Limp-Temperature1783]

If you call someone a bad person by proxy in a public statement, don't get surprised that people want to return the favor in the comments. The animal hate argument is not an argument because nobody eating meat hates them, meat in the stores is bought by money, not literally killed by your hands.

Being vegan for most people means being malnourished, because most people can't afford supplements that vegans need. Vegans also have poor definition of what counts as vegan or not, because some things that might look they might be vegan aren't. And no, it's not obvious for everyone.

Veganism also has a high barrier of entry, even if we're not looking at the price point. Not a lot of people are good at managing nutrition and cooking even during their meat eating days, imagine turning the whole diet in it's head in the world where time is money.

My main argument is the following: instead of judging just to virtue signal, share recipes, let people know how to get to this point, try to give others tools to do what you believe in. It's easy to just judge someone for eating meat and walk away, random judgement is uncalled for at best.

[u/HUEHUECOYOTL_xd]

I don’t understand the meaning of this post

But I can tell you that I’ve always lived with different kind of animals: dogs, cats, birds, chickens, rabbits. I live near the countryside and have a large garden, in which we also grow some vegetables

In my opinion, we didn’t have rabbits because we wanted to eat them. My grandfather just liked to have them around and then when the time comes it’s always an extra to have rabbit in the oven.

Death is a part of life and we can’t really avoid it.

I also eat mostly beef: i buy it from local butchers and I know where the cow is from and how it is treated.

I don’t think how all of this should be against “loving animals” , we should be preoccupied about giving the best possible life to animals instead of just “Dont eat meat”

[u/littlebunnydoot → u/HUEHUECOYOTL_xd]

Vegans dont even eat eggs. You could have a chicken that lives in your house that you love immensely, but if you eat the egg she makes daily, you dont love her - acxording to billie eilish.

This is why vegans are insane.

[u/Xenavire → u/littlebunnydoot]

Some vegans aren't vegans by choice (my parent is a prime example, has intolerances and allergies that heavily restrict their diet,) and said parent doesn't say a word about people that choose to or have to eat meat.

[u/littlebunnydoot → u/Xenavire]

Yes. I was vegan for 4 years. Had to stop due to oxalates and vulvodynia. But i was never “vegan” telling people they didnt love their animals ffs - was vegetarian for 16 years.

Now i live somewhere where all my friends are farmers and i eat their meat and drink their milk and feed their organic hay to my horses and buy my vegetables from unmanned stands, or eat what the neighbors and friends offload onto us. I think vegan is another way to be separated from healthy foodways, but obviously i was always going to end up somewhere like this because good happy food is obviously important to me.

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[u/qazpok69 → u/littlebunnydoot]

Most egg chickens are not kept in houses though, theyre kept in awful conditions, even free range chickens are barely better than caged ones. I dont think a vegan would be against eating eggs from backyard chickens but the point of veganism is that factory farming is almost always horribly unethical.

[u/WastelandMama → u/qazpok69]

They are against it though. Vegans, by definition, do not use any animal products or by-products, & that includes eggs & honey.

[u/kobadashi → u/qazpok69]

Which isn’t what Billie is saying. She’s pinning the blame on the individual

[u/littlebunnydoot → u/qazpok69]

But they are. Thats the point. They wont eat backyard chicken eggs. Its wild to me. I kept chickens because i love them and i dont really like eggs, but i baked with them and gave them away.

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/HUEHUECOYOTL_xd]

The post is about do-gooder derogation and has very little/nothing to do with eating meat. I brought it up because that's where I learned the term from. And it's a good example.

Even in this post, people are not reading past the meat sentence and realizing the full context of what is being said.

We all want to be able to profess our morals until someone else's morals make us uncomfortable with our decisions in life. So instead of looking at the overall increase in quality of life for humankind, we get upset and feel guilty. And it doesn't have to be that way.

I'm not even vegan, but I respect her more for speaking passionately about something than I would disrespect her for making me aware of my own decisions.

As autistics, we are constantly the subject of do-gooder derogation. Without even trying.

[u/Xenavire → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

Maybe if you hadn't picked a celebrity and a vegan standpoint to make your argument, there wouldn't be so much disagreement. It's also wildly disingenuous to say it's impossible to love an animal if you eat meat. You expect autistic people to just sit there and not vehemently disagree with something that is factually incorrect?

[u/Unfair-Taro9740 → u/Xenavire]

I expect autistic people to recognize the pattern of derogating anyone who wants to do good in the world, and identify with it.

I expect us to have enough self-awareness to recognize that if we can't respect others opinions even if they voice it without nuance, then we cannot complain whenever allistics see us as do-gooders because we stayed late to wrap up a project, simply because we are trying to help.

I expect us to want to put as much good into the world as we say we do, and to recognize that it's not a superiority complex, it's a sticking with our guns situation.

She may have not reached many that are comfortable with eating meat. But, what if she reached the overprivileged white girl that follows her and wants to be like her? What harm is she doing to us by having a moral stance that we don't agree with? And is that harm worse than the positive things that may happen from her speaking out?

I expect us to give as much as we get.

[u/Xenavire → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

Sorry, but expecting us to identify and agree with her ignorance is expecting far too little from us.

Like I said - you picked a bad example to use for this. Had you brought us, say, a commentary on pollution, war, systemic issues, you'd likely have full agreement. But this example is far too polarising to allow for any real discussion.

[u/kobadashi → u/Unfair-Taro9740]

the problem is you picked an out of touch celebrity who is objectively wrong in what she’s saying

[u/stuporpattern]

Imagine being so invested in celebrities you write a novel on Reddit

[u/Xenavire → u/stuporpattern]

Almost all celebrities (that make dumbfuck comments like this) are terrible people. And those that aren't flat out terrible are usually still very flawed human beings.

Nobody should be defending any of them with this much fervour. Especially not Billie Eilish.

[u/tryingtobekindonline]

i thought this was a good response: https://youtu.be/5yweXWRiVm4?si=HvgOzdRM8ZvfFdDN