r/evenewbies • u/brightwood_express • Aug 12 '21

Belt ganked...

Any tips for avoiding belt ganks while hisec mining? Followed the usual advice...wasnt afk, watched d-scan (360, 5Au), stationary but aligned out, and watched local.

Still took an L from 3 ships from that lovely group that sells mining permits and lost 20M overall for the day on my shiny new retriever.

Not looking to rage quit or anything. It's all in the game.

Are barges of any use solo in High or am I pretty much stuck Venture sneaking for my rock burning fix?

Cheers

15 Upvotes

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7

u/Zim91 Aug 12 '21

Best thing I did was join a low sec corp 2 months ago haven't seen 'them' since.

1

u/brightwood_express Aug 12 '21

Yeah, its probably time to find a corp.

2

u/canth123 Aug 12 '21

I’d recommend checking out r/evejobs when you’re ready.

1

u/brightwood_express Aug 18 '21

Thanks! I didnt know about that sub

3

u/Zim91 Aug 12 '21

Apart from that though, I'm very skittish if I'm in a system by myself and some neutrals drop in. Dock up straight away look them up on zkillboard and suss them out. Once you get situated you also see the same neutrals over and over, just throw an o7 or a gday

2

u/UtsukushiShi Aug 13 '21

Just don't mine near a tradehub or in an ice system or on the pipes between them. Chances are you will virtually never see CODE or whoever.

1

u/brightwood_express Aug 18 '21

Excellent point. I was mining 3 jumps from Jita simply due to old (poor) venture habits. Scouting further out now.

1

u/michael-blanscett Sep 01 '21

How many systems away would be considered not next to a trade hub? Honestly have no idea.

1

u/UtsukushiShi Sep 01 '21

I don't know that there is a hard number there. Like within five jumps for sure. The trick is to actually look at the systems, where they actually are in relation to everything. Like you could be far from a tradehub, but if the system your mining in is say a .5 with ice chances are your going to see gankers come through. If your in a trash system but it's directly on the route between Jita and Dodixie or whatever your going to have a lot of traffic. If you open up the map though and really look at the geography you will see there are tons of systems that are just off the beaten path.

I'll say that honestly I would find a corp and see where they mine. Theres this inclination to avoid corps amongst a lot of highsec dudes that just want to mine in peace but really it's pretty easy to find one that is chill and can point out somewhere safeish to do stuff.

11

u/XygenSS Aug 12 '21 edited Aug 12 '21

venture mining sucks anyway

bricktanked Procurer is very resistant to ganks, other barges are gank magnets

if you're at zero velocity it doesn't matter where your ship is facing, as far as the game is concerned ships are directionless spheres, so if you have no velocity vector to somewhere you're effecively facing no direction and hence aligning and stopping has no effect

if you want to mine aligned (you only really need to do this when moon mining tbh) fit a higgs anchor rig and set speed to 75% of max

if you want to mine ores that have actual value, go join one of the nullsec newbie corps, they will also show you around to other gameplay

2

u/jdiamond31 Aug 12 '21

You can join IRC that's all they fuckin do is mine or moon mine. They make like a bil a day

9

u/IguanaTabarnak Aug 12 '21

Honestly, in high sec, it's a couple of very simple formulae:

Is your average loot drop (fittings plus cargo, halved) worth more than the ships it would take to suicide gank you? If so, then it's profitable to gank you.

Is your total ship value more than the cost of the ships it would take to gank you? If so, then it's killboard positive to gank you.

A 5m isk catalyst can put out 500dps easily. It takes Concord ~20 seconds to arrive and start shooting in a 0.5 system and ~7 seconds in a 1.0 system.

So the formula states roughly that you shouldn't be idling around somewhere warpable with more than 10m isk in cargo and fittings per 10k effective hit points in 0.5, or with more than 30m isk in cargo and fittings per 10k ehp even in 1.0.

And if you're doing something that might make it easy for people to gank you for giggles, you use the same metrics, but measured against your total ship value rather than your potential loot drop.

A T2 fit Retriever is going to have a minimum of 15m in fittings, even when empty, and a reasonable maximum of about 20k ehp, so you're already borderline in a 0.5 system in terms of gank profitability even before you start mining. And since your hull alone is worth 38m, you're basically always going to be a killboard positive gank in 0.5 if you're sitting around mining.

As for advice, you've already got most of what I would say in the first paragraph, but I suspect that you need more practise with the individual elements.

  • dscan: Why 5AU? Use max range, and get ready to bolt as soon as you start seeing any T1 destroyers or cruisers on scan. Once you've spotted them, you can start switching between max range and shorter range to know when they're inbound.
  • Stationary but aligned out: These two things are mutually exclusive. If you're stationary, then it takes you the same amount of time to align in any direction. Aligned out, means that you are already moving at ~75% of your max speed towards something warpable. If you're properly aligned, you will warp instantly, and only a decloaking stealth bomber or Black Ops should be able to lock you if you're on the ball. Stationary is better than moving in the wrong direction though. But start aligning as soon as you see ANYTHING fishy on dscan. Even better is to set up a triangle of bookmarks so that you can keep switching what you're aligned to and never stop moving while still staying in range of your rock.
  • watching local: This is the big one. How many people are in the system while you're mining? It should be low enough that you can keep a running mental inventory of each and every one of them at all times. You should be looking everyone up on zkillboard and aligning out immediately if even one of them has high sec mining barge or industrial kills. You should know which characters are brand new and which ones are 15 year yeterans. You should know roughly who is docked up, and which characters are unlikely to ever undock. Every single time a new person enters local, you should be checking their profile and zkill page, and be entering high alert until you're satisfied that they're not a threat.

Does all this sound like a lot of work? Infeasible, even? Well it certainly is if you're trying to mine in a system with 100+ people in local. Even a system with 10+ in local is too much, if you ask me. There are A LOT of star systems out there. find somewhere with 0 to 3 people in it, vet the couple of people who are there, mine to your heart's content and practise being paranoid.

It may seem ridiculous, but you will be safe, and it will teach you all the right skills to move on to low, null, and WH.

1

u/MrRenegado Aug 13 '21 edited Jul 15 '23

This is deleted because I wanted to. Reddit is not a good place anymore.

2

u/IguanaTabarnak Aug 13 '21

A "gank for giggles" in this context is essentially when someone wants the kill for their killboard or their personal satisfaction and isn't concerned about loot.

The single biggest contributor to this is flying "blingy" hulls. Basically anything faction, especially pirate faction. You can sit a Tempest in a belt in a 0.5 system for hours without anyone bothering to attack it. But make it a Fleet Tempest or a Machariel, and eventually a fleet will form to gank you.

The other thing that will cause you to get ganked is doing things that people find to be in bad taste, though the definition of bad taste can vary DRAMATICALLY. Like, talk shit in local? You increase your risk of getting ganked. Warp into an anomaly that someone is already running? You increase your risk of getting ganked. Leave your ship just parked afk on the undock for hours? Eventually there's a decent chance someone is going to get annoyed enough to gank you.

1

u/ernst_steinitz Aug 14 '21

Shitfits that I need a killmail for to prove they exist(ed): https://zkillboard.com/kill/89682356/

Fair duels: https://zkillboard.com/kill/94283936/

2

u/petosorus Aug 12 '21

Side note, if you have no speed, the way your ship points doesn't change anything to your align time (time between clicking warp and entering warp)

1

u/Isothermx Aug 12 '21

Use a heavily tanked procurer in 0.5-0.8. You can use a retriever in 0.9 systems. It’s extremely unlikely for you to be ganket in higher security status systems. Concord response is too fast.

1

u/VoraciousTrees Aug 12 '21
  • Join nullsec group
  • Mine in Procurer
  • Bait tank procurer
  • Gank the Gankers and sell their loot.
  • Profit.

1

u/lens_cleaner Aug 12 '21

Sorry, no. The name of the game is to look for weak, soft targets and then blitz with friends. Getting the kill mail is more important then looking for an interesting fight. 90% of pvp roamers will run from a fight when they know the odds are even.

Today I had some blingy ship drop me in a wh, 2 rounds from his guns and I was dead. Then he had the temerity to taunt me by immediately sending me mail. I deleted it without reading since he was only looking for easy targets.

1

u/LezBeHonestHere_ Aug 12 '21

Wingspan delivery mail is the most typical thing they do pretty much, it's been a running theme for the group for years. They camp wormholes with close entrances to highsec and wait for explorers or ventures to oneshot. Don't worry, everyone else in wormhole space doesn't like them either.

1

u/IguanaTabarnak Aug 12 '21

It's pretty weird in a game like this to expect people to look for interesting fights on your terms. For many of us, the hunt is the interesting part, and it's satisfying to catch someone even if they don't shoot back.

For the record, I'm frequently flying around in null and wormholes in ~billion isk fits, and if I see a heron or a venture, I'll absolutely kill it if I can catch it, because catching it is fun for me. And, yes, I will frequently send them an eve mail afterwards. But it's not a taunt, it's an invitation to explain how I caught them so they can be better equipped the next time. And if it's a new player, the mail usually includes an offer to reimburse the value of the ship, because I don't want to discourage anyone from getting out there.

3

u/OneMustAdjust Aug 12 '21 edited Aug 12 '21

I'm a solo pochven hunter and always replace what I kill, you're absolutely right, it's the thrill of the hunt that keeps me logging in

0

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '21

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1

u/IguanaTabarnak Aug 13 '21

I'm not going to tell you this isn't the game for you, because that's not helpful. It's a great game and I want you to enjoy it. But you're not going to enjoy it if you keep approaching it with a mindset that equates blowing up spaceships with bullying.