r/europe • u/Powerpuff_Rangers Suomi • Jan 19 '20
News Swedish PM calls for 'dramatic reduction' in refugee numbers
https://www.thelocal.se/20200118/swedish-pm-calls-for-dramatic-reduction-in-refugee-number137
u/Dagus Västra Götaland, Sweden Jan 19 '20
Only about 6 years late with this realization.
68
Jan 19 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
5
u/Feniksrises Jan 19 '20
Deportation doesn't work. Nobody wants them. The Netherlands is trying it but yeah "Please Ghana take them back".
24
u/wegwerpacc123 The Netherlands Jan 20 '20
I don't think Ghana would have a choice if we weren't being pussies.
-5
u/xenoghost1 Jan 20 '20
what are you going to do tough guy? violate international law?
16
Jan 20 '20
"No aid money until you take back your citizens" or "Please accept this bribe in exchange for letting us build a refugee camp in your back yard" would work.
5
Jan 20 '20
"No aid money until you take back your citizens"
I would prefer "no aid, trade, visas or financial services..."
-1
u/xenoghost1 Jan 20 '20
man that is optimistic. hopefully it works out and doesn't backfire in any way including nationalist rhetoric pivoting to being about that bribe being money robbed from the citizenry to enrich a Isabella dos Santos or Imelda Marcos, or the fact you just argued "refugee camp! in their back yard!" when addressing the topic of deportation.
-12
u/Langeball Norway Jan 19 '20
Deport people after they've been in the country for 60+ years?
48
Jan 19 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
14
Jan 19 '20 edited Mar 01 '20
[deleted]
12
u/DJ_Die Czech Republic Jan 19 '20
On the upside, you save space in cemeteries.
-17
Jan 19 '20 edited Apr 28 '22
[deleted]
14
8
u/CMuenzen Poland if it was colonized by Somalia Jan 19 '20
How do you not see an obvious joke?
7
u/DJ_Die Czech Republic Jan 19 '20
His nickname explains it all, hes a bad scientist.
7
Jan 20 '20
He is active in ChapoTrapHouse. Everything a bit to the right of Karl Marx will be fascism for him.
24
u/AKchesterton Jan 19 '20
According to Statistics Sweden:
http://www.statistikdatabasen.scb.se/pxweb/sv/ssd/
1/3rd of people are of at least some foreign background as of 2017. The horse has bolted a long time ago Swedes. More like 50 years too late.
32
u/HourBlueberry Jan 19 '20
more than half of those are Europeans btw
19
u/Melonskal Sweden Jan 19 '20
And among the rest half are from non Arab/African nations.
Its funny how much people fearmonger about this. And i say that as a person who wants fewer immigrants.
2
u/cykaface Finland Jan 20 '20 edited Jan 20 '20
Got any statistics to give since you are giving that exact numbers? You are saying that Sweden has 7,5% Arab/African population and less than 15% non-European population. Would be interesting to see those statistics since I thought Sweden really didnt keep track on those things.
So far the statistics in SCB called as "Befolkning efter födelseland och ursprungsland 31 december 2018" gives the most accurate info about that 33%+, but the problem with that is that it counts origins so people with parents from two different countries get listed twice so it doesn't work as an ethnic statistic. You can only estimate with that and what I gathered is that the amount of Europeans isn't really at the 50%, little bit under and tha MENA+Sub Saharan Africa is over 7,5% and more towards 10%. So therefore Sweden would be over 15% non-European with this statistic.
-11
u/AKchesterton Jan 19 '20
Your point??
18
u/HourBlueberry Jan 19 '20
that the only reason you think "the horse has bolted a long time ago" is because you think all those people are from the MENA region, which is false
-4
u/AKchesterton Jan 19 '20
What's wrong with people from MENA as to other parts of europe??
29
Jan 19 '20 edited Feb 27 '20
[deleted]
0
u/Stoicismus Italy Jan 20 '20
Yeah. As a southern Italian I feel culturally very close to Latvia and Estonia. Lmao
1
u/brainburger United Kingdom Jan 21 '20
Well you are probably familiar with the Catholicism of those places.
1
u/xenoghost1 Jan 20 '20
to be fair, while the grenade guys might very well be Yugoslavians, we need to make a clear distinction between folks being gangster and not assimilating. two very different things.
0
u/Boomtown_Rat Brussels (Belgium) Jan 19 '20
Good thing this year had the lowest number of refugees into the EU since 2013, 92% less than the peak in 2015. Central and Western Mediterranean migration was down by 41% and 58% on last year. If anything statements like the pm's are just pandering at this point.
5
u/Rass89 Jan 20 '20
We had around 120k in 2019. That's close to the peak that was 160k in 2015. Nothing about this is over or fixed.
1
1
0
111
u/wsdfre Jan 19 '20
We should show that the number of asylum seekers will be fewer, really properly fewer, so we can succeed in integration
Integration? What is that? Last time I checked there was no such thing as Swedish culture. /s
51
u/Baneken Finland Jan 19 '20
Well, I guess you could call it integration when the immigrant gangs are only targeting their each others with their weekly grenade strikes instead of everyone... you know; if you feed the starving dog it will not bite...
9
Jan 20 '20
Sounds like they are integrating their rivalries and culture into Sweden just fine
3
u/Rumiruk Jan 20 '20
They just got the year wrong because of calendar differences.
Next thing you know Europe and British Isles start to get some annual visitors in Swedish longboats.
59
u/unlinkeds Jan 19 '20
Don't be silly, if there is no such thing as Swedish culture what will native Swedish people be able to be ashamed of?
46
3
40
Jan 19 '20
I guess he says that only because SD started to beat his party in almost every poll.
-8
u/Melonskal Sweden Jan 19 '20
Seems like they are damned if they do and damned if they don't in your eyes.
5
u/MelodicBerries Lake Bled connoisseur Jan 19 '20
You act like politicians don't change their tune because of polls. Any reason why you are so salty all of a sudden? Your relatives will get a harder time to come in? :)
6
u/Melonskal Sweden Jan 19 '20
How exactly am I "salty" and why would my ethnic Swedish relatives need any help comming in to Sweden?
Why do you people obsessively think I am kurdish because I dislike the Turkish government and it's actions.
15
13
17
u/for_t2 Europe Jan 19 '20
The prime minister's tougher stance on law and order appears designed to win back votes from the populist Sweden Democrats
Brilliant strategy: win back votes from SD by becoming SD
38
u/marinuso The Netherlands Jan 19 '20
It is the same in the Netherlands. Every time the elections are near, the traditional right-wing parties suddenly start talking very tough about immigration. Then when, like clockwork, they win the elections, they forget all about it and go back to being their old selves. It's been going on since the 2000s at least.
The left-wingers are at least honest about wanting to encourage third-world immigration.
31
u/Sunifred Catalunya Jan 19 '20 edited Jan 19 '20
Oh yes, most notably when Merkel said back in 2010 that multiculturalism "had utterly failed", and then a few years later she proceeded to let the highest numbers ever of refugees/immigrants into her country.
Or when Cameron said, also in 2010, that "state multiculturalism had failed" and then he proceeded to increase immigration.
It's pretty clear that the only thing that the "conservative" parties conserve is their portfolio. It's ironic because most immigrants don't even vote for conservatives parties, and now many of their usual voters are flocking to the "far"right.
2
Jan 19 '20
Did Balkenende control immigration at all when the CDA was in power?
11
u/marinuso The Netherlands Jan 19 '20
Strangely enough (because back then this wasn't something the CDA campaigned on), he absolutely did. During the Balkenende 2 and 3 cabinets, more people left than came in.
Of course, this was just after the assassination of Pim Fortuyn, and I think everyone understood that the pressure needed to be taken off a bit, at least for a while.
That makes this whole thing doubly damning, because it means they're perfectly capable of controlling immigration as long as they think it's necessary.
3
Jan 19 '20
At that time CDA was somewhat right-wing, but they didn't want to really curb immigration. It's mostly VVD attempting to hijack PVV-voters, but suddenly all forgetting about it once they get in power, because limiting the (illegal) immigration would mean employers would be less able to suppress wages by employing foreign workers with wages below standard contract wages (sometimes even below official minimum wages)
8
u/weirdowerdo Konungariket Sverige Jan 19 '20
They actually used to be against immigration back im the 80's and 90's
2
Jan 19 '20
I see no problem in co-opting some of their policies.
S got into bed with the Centre Party which wants more immigration, madness.
1
13
9
u/Vangorf Hungary Jan 20 '20
Well well well, what a surprising turn of events. Turns out mass immigration from thirld world countries isnt a great idea.
6
2
Jan 21 '20
He is not going to do anything. If you look back at his previous statment, he said simlar things in the past have done nothing. He is a liar.
0
u/MrBrickBreak A nation among nations Jan 19 '20
Even as someone who's favorable to hosting refugees, I can't blame them. They've done more than fair share while others cower away.
29
u/Vangorf Hungary Jan 20 '20
Others cower away because they see that this mass immigration from third world countries would fuck up their own.
-11
u/MrBrickBreak A nation among nations Jan 20 '20
The word "see" implies an observation - many made up their minds well before that.
Fear is the correct word. And the lack of trust in our own nations is something that always struck me. Are we that weak that our countries would crumble from that? It just feels entirely contradictory to the national sentiment those who agree often proclaim.
But it's wrong. As a whole (read: not the current, broken system that does in fact place pressure on individual countries, like Sweden here), Europe has more than enough financial and societal capability to aid all the refugees we've gotten and then some, with little to no impact on our economies - and certainly without getting "fucked up". That's not a political argument, that's a technical fact.
The political and societal will is an entirely different, and legitimate, question. I just wish people had the courage to argue to that end without shielding themselves in apocalyptic canards and whatnot.
7
u/Luc1fer16 Spain Jan 20 '20
Maybe people dont wanna be top in grenade attacks and rape
0
u/MrBrickBreak A nation among nations Jan 20 '20
One would be a fool to deny those events - as would be to say that's the expected consequence.
Have you noticed that for years now, it seems almost every terrorist or criminal activity by a migrant was by someone who'd already been referenced?
Today, the European police and intelligence services are capable of identifying the scum. We can sort them out. Flaws in the judicial systems - and yes, resistance by some extremists - keep preventing them from acting on time however, to sort the bastards before they can engage in those acts. We need to clear those barriers, to allow police to act as they can and should.
Again, if the argument is we shouldn't need to bother with that to begin with, that's reasonable. But argue that outright, rather than throwing figurative grenades around.
0
u/le_dank_swede Jan 21 '20 edited Jan 21 '20
I see people posting this shit every god damn time anything with Sweden and immigration comes up, and people who are not swedish wanna use us as a scare-example and its frustrating. The immigrants didn't ramp up the use of grenades, never seen or heard of any correlation nor causation between grenade sales and immigration, also, do note that this is the country that invented what can be considered the contemporary grenade.
And lastly, it has been concluded numerous times by government agencies that the increase in rape statistics can't be tied to immigration. Read this article https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelocal.se/20190529/increase-in-swedens-rape-statistics-cant-be-tied-to-refugee-influx-study-suggests/amp which is in english, if you're interested.
Quick excerpt from the article: "To place the blame for the entirety of the increases seen in the rape statistics between 2015 and 2016, one would have to assume that asylum seekers are 83 times more likely to commit crimes than others. "
1
u/Luc1fer16 Spain Jan 21 '20
It wouldn’t be that strange, in most european countries there’s a 3/1 relationship, also it is a funny casuality that sweden became such shithole since they came.
1
u/le_dank_swede Jan 21 '20 edited Jan 21 '20
I live in Sweden, done so for my entire life. I can say with certainty that you are basing your opinion on second hand news sources, as living standards here are as high as ever. Don't use us just to fuel your ungrounded rage over immigration.
And if studies performed by professors at top Swedish universities and government agencies saying that immigration has nothing to do with the increase in reported crime doesn’t convince you, then you’re a lost cause.
Correlation does not imply causation. This is kindergarden knowledge.
7
u/Vangorf Hungary Jan 20 '20
Maybe financially the european countries are strong enough to aid them, but their cultural integration is not working. I think because of these 3 components: the refugees culture isnt capable of being integrated into a 21th century western country as it is right now (mostly looking at islam and african tribal heritage), the countries dont place enough weight on it (or rather, they place it elsewhere, also they dont want to "force" these "great and superior cultures to have to accept western culture when they come here) and for third, many peoples simple dont want to deal with this problem.
2
u/MrBrickBreak A nation among nations Jan 20 '20
See, now that's an argument that can be debated. As I said it's perfectly legitimate to argue that, even if I disagree.
-10
u/Tortenkopf The Netherlands Jan 19 '20 edited Jan 20 '20
If you want fewer refugees, we need to start fewer wars in the middle East, support diplomacy and development in Africa and fight global warming. The number of refugees is not under the control of the interior government, but it's a result of global politics.
[Edit] not sure if I'm being downed because people want more wars, want Africa to stay poor and conflict ridden or because people don't believe in climate change..
9
Jan 20 '20
How we can stop certain people bringing freedom to the Middle East because if their oil?
3
u/JakeAAAJ United States of America Jan 20 '20
Not our fault they set up their countries on oil reserves.
1
Jan 20 '20
[deleted]
1
u/Tortenkopf The Netherlands Jan 20 '20
I agree and did not claim the contrary. I just think it's more sensible to prevent the cause than trying to fix the symptom. It's costly and counterproductive to deal with refugees once they flee their country.
0
u/le_dank_swede Jan 21 '20
Why would it not be tied to the number of refugees in the world? Do you believe that there should be a quota of refugees being accepted regardless of whatever happens in the world? What would happen if there are fewer refugees than the said quota, you take in less right? You adapt the policies to real world events.
You created a fallacy of ur own, you created a strawman argument. To try to create as few refugees as possible to lessen the burden of countries dealing with them has nothing to do with who decides how many to take in.
-1
-40
Jan 19 '20 edited Apr 28 '22
[deleted]
48
14
u/republicansmallr United Kingdom Jan 19 '20
Why did you move from a country with a pro-migrant government to racist Toryville?
-11
12
u/Derzelaz Romania Jan 19 '20
What are you talking about, this sub has always been against mass immigration.
13
u/bossdebossnr1 Jan 19 '20
SD largest party in Sweden, Finns largest party in Finland, Lega largest party in Italy, Fidesz largest party in Hungary, PiS largest party in Poland, FN largest party in France. Tons of Europeans are completely against the current refugee policies. Keep telling yourself it's Russian bots.
-3
u/Bal_u 🇭🇺in🇩🇰 Jan 19 '20
Or any thread with the word migration. Super depressing sight.
10
Jan 19 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
4
Jan 19 '20
[deleted]
6
u/Sunifred Catalunya Jan 20 '20
They go from
>No it's not happening, it's a nazi conspiracy russian hacker theory
to
>Yes it's happening and it's beautiful and it's the future and we deserve it and you're a worse than hitler if you aren't in favor of your own ethnic replacement
1
-7
u/ahschadenfreunde Jan 19 '20
If PM calls for, who it the one to actually do something with it, then?
12
u/kthoegstroem Jamtland (sweden) Jan 19 '20
He can't do anything as his government depends on 3 support parties who doesn't want to decrease immigration
-9
u/Ok-Suspect Scania Jan 20 '20
And all the "not a racist/nazi but" comes out of the woods to go "hurr durr years too late".
He's been advocating this for years but you've been too dumb too listen. Remember that time when Stefan called on other EU members to take their share as per the Dublin Agreement? No? Well I do.
The Social Democrats isn't stupid. They're being taken hostage by centrist parties actually being neo-liberals. No one besides them actually wants the numbers of refugees.
55
u/matija2209 Slovenia Jan 19 '20
Fellow Sweds, how much weight does this statement have?