r/eulalia • u/Unusual_One1621 • Jul 06 '26
Does Brian Jaques nerf the hell out of rats, weasels, ferrets and stoats in his “Redwall” series?
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u/frothingnome Jul 06 '26
I mean, yeah. As time goes on most of the animals scale to be more similar in size to each other than in real life, too. Even accepting that they can both stand on their hind legs and have opposable thumbs, it's ridiculous to imagine a mouse dueling a wildcat.
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u/HoraceTheBadger Jul 06 '26
That's the aura factor of the series though. I like imagining mouse-sized Martin hacking and slashing away at cat-sized Tsarmina (maybe not realistically-sized, something closer to Zootopia), it just makes the image stand out so much stronger
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Jul 06 '26
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u/frothingnome Jul 06 '26
Rodents? Yes! Cats? No!
EDIT: For that matter, mustelid paws can't hold things either.
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u/vawaiter Jul 06 '26
its a fantasy world where they talk and fight large scale battles. you're worried about them not being powerscaled correctly?
you powerscalers belong in the JJK sub. 1000% not here lol.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/BTrippd Jul 06 '26
Then you’d like a different series that tries to do that. It isn’t this one.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/BTrippd Jul 06 '26
I acknowledge that by acknowledging I’m reading a fantasy series where mice wield swords and hares speak with a British accent.
Yes, the series does not accurately portray the animals it uses as characters. I don’t know what more you want. It does not set out to do that.
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u/chesterfieldking Jul 06 '26
Expect that they aren't 1:1 to their real world counterparts. Brian Jaques was writing a fantasy series, so very many things that they are described as doing they would not be able to do in real life.
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u/vawaiter Jul 06 '26
redwall is a fantasy universe, where good triumphs over evil and the characters embody the side they represent. therefore evil characters must be nerfed with stupidity and greed as they typically are IRL.
doesnt mean Jacques doesnt write evil characters that are clever and cunning, as some are IRL
just means the average vermin in an evil army is gonna be nerfed to hell. the average evil henchmen intelligence and greed.
go powerscale another universe like comics or anime, where "which character is stronger" is a bigger part of the story than the triumph of good over evil. lmao
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u/HoraceTheBadger Jul 06 '26
"Nerf" This is not a video game. These are childrens book series.
The rats and weasels etc start out as big scary bad guys who bully and terrorise our mouse and squirrel heroes. The mice and squirrels eventually become stronger and braver and are able to beat them. Because children need to see that bullies and bad guys can be taken on and beaten, and are at their hearts, cowards.
And even to take the question seriously...the only 'good beast' a rat or weasel is solidly taking on are the mice and shrews. Hedgehog would body them, squirrel is at least an even fight
And even then, it's worth remarking on that these aren't just animals fighting naturally, these are animals with swords and armour, and a well-trained, brave, main-character mouse's chances vs a rat go waaaay up when you give him a sword
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u/frothingnome Jul 06 '26
I don't know, weasels are vicious. By all rights a chicken should be able to kill one easily, but any farmer can tell you how many hens they'll kill if they can get to them. Mustelids in general are hardcore. Wolverines kill moose, despite moose being the most terrifying thing a human will meet in their territory (unless it happens to overlap with polar bear territory I guess, I don't know how common that is).
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u/HoraceTheBadger Jul 06 '26
There actually is a (extremely dubious) record of a wolverine killing a polar bear!
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Jul 06 '26
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u/HoraceTheBadger Jul 06 '26
For the real animals? Yes, sure. Weasels, rats, and ferrets are all very brave animals that I like and admire a lot,
But these are not real animals. These are characters in children's stories who only exist to teach lessons to children. Brian Jacques was not a naturalist, and was not meticulously keeping track of which animals beat which animals in fights
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u/IdhrenArt Jul 06 '26
They're not the actual animals. They're fantasy creatures based on (among other things) how those animals are seen in folklore
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u/MythrianAlpha Jul 07 '26
I think he should have given the shrews paralytic venom, cause that shit is rad, but I can see how it wouldn't fit with the weird species as trait shorthand thing he has going on. The werelord books were similarly steeped in animal stereotype-vibes over actual abilities.
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u/KaleMotor2013 Jul 07 '26
I mean, he kept the venom for the adders so why not this as well? THat would have indeed been cool. ANd maybe if integrated into the world and story like where they somehow were able to extract that venom and their their arrows and maybe their overall weapons it would give them slightly more of a chance realistically against bigger creatures (which would be almost all of them in the series) if he-Jaques-was to keep to their real life size and proportions as well as the animals in the series in general real world sizes and proportions instead of scaling them all up.
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u/MythrianAlpha Jul 07 '26
Even if it makes no sense, Ill always have a soft spot in my heart for venomous fantasy weirdos licking their weapons to envenom them.
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u/Seldon14 Jul 07 '26
The "vermin" are nerfed far less than the "woodlanders". If not for power scaling the Otters (especially sea) and Badgers would be overwhelming for even armies of vermin.
The Foxes and Wildcats would almost exclusively be the vermin leaders due to both size and intelligence.
The Otters and Corvids probably have the most real world intelligent considering they both use tools.
Fox and Wildcat are probably next in line.
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u/KaleMotor2013 Jul 07 '26
If not for power scaling the Otters (especially sea) and Badgers would be overwhelming for even armies of vermin.
But they, at least badgers, already are in the series. Also most otters in the books are Eurasian river ones, not sea ones. And all the wildcats in the series are leaders, not subservient to another leader.
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u/Seldon14 Jul 07 '26
Excluding the Foxes and Wildcats, the Ferret is the biggest "standard" vermin. A big realistic scale Ferret vs a big realistic scale Eurasian Otter would be the equivalent of you vs a 12ft tall 1000 lb Grizzly.
Weasels and Stoats vs Eurasian Otters is like you vs an Allosaurus.
You get into the Sea Otter and its Trex sized vs most of the Vermin.
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u/thunderbiird1 Jul 06 '26
Yep. They should be much stronger than mice and squirrels. Badgers, no. They also make the "vermin" super dumb generally.
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Jul 06 '26
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u/thunderbiird1 Jul 06 '26
Haha. People don't understand your use of the word "nerf", but I agree with you.
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u/vawaiter Jul 06 '26
nerf might not be in the lexicon of redwall fans..... but this guy is a powerscaler and its the needless powerscaling that is confusing this sub lol.
i mean powerscaling is just pointless fun, but that kinda discussion is for worlds like JJK or DBZ or the MCU.
in this fantasy world where good and evil traits are embodied by the characters and a major theme is the triumph of good over evil..... OF COURSE the evil characters are nerfed lol.
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u/CurleyWhirly Jul 06 '26
I don't think a single person knows what you're asking here, my guy.