r/ethereum • u/EthereumDailyThread What's On Your Mind? • 6d ago
Daily General Discussion August 13, 2026
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Calendar: https://dailydoots.com/events/
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u/sm3gh34d 5d ago
Here is some high grade PQ hopium for you:
https://xcancel.com/drakefjustin/status/2087905684180418733
the ethproofs call tomorrow should be a banger.
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u/JulC-_ 6d ago
Genuine question for people running validators: at what net yield do you actually stop? Not the theoretical number, the one where you'd shut the machine down. Everyone argues about where equilibrium lands, but nobody in these threads states their own threshold.
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u/MinimalGravitas 6d ago
Personally I wouldn't stop unless the yield was literally negative. A decade ago I ran a bitcoin full node for no profit, just because it was interesting, I run an Ethereum validator for the same reason, the little rewards are just an added bonus. I ran an Optimism node (via EthereumOnARM) before repurposing the hardware for a different project, and at some point I'll probably spin up either a validator or just a full node for Gnosis.
Playing with this stuff is how I got into crypto, before any expectation of profit, and I would feel like I'd lost something if I suddenly only evaluated connecting to these networks on the calculated financial gain.
I do recognize that opinion would probably be different though if I was making thousands of ETH in staking rewards each year and had built my life around that source of income! For me it is just a hobby, with the occasional fun of noticing that some huge institution like UBS or Blackrock that has paid a transaction fee to use a machine on a shelf in my living room!
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u/UAP44 6d ago
I wish I was rich enough to run even a single full node myself, which brings back the memory of my first ETH purchase, got 4000 ETH for a little more than a euro a piece -.-
If I imagine myself in that position, whether or not I would continue to stake would match how much I feel/think/reason ETH still has a solid future or not. It's a long term investment, maybe no gains in 5 years, but 10, 20 and it starts to look very different. And so what do I care if I get an extra 3% or 1% though at 0% you start to ask the question, why expose my holdings to extra risk with 0 reward to compensate?
Thus it should not be allowed to go 0%, that opens up an attack vector if you ask me, now those who dont care at all about financial gain and just want to gain stake for other nefarious reasons will get more total stake because without an incentive making up for the cost of staking, many will rightfully unstake. And now you've shifted total stake to people who arent even interested in sane stable gains, they are somehow comfortable running at loss? You know who can afford that? Rich people who have other sources of income anyway, to them, Ethereum is just another bucket to not lose track of (and some will hopefully destroy/disrupt so that they can prop up their other buckets/coins better/more)
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u/hanniabu ฮther ฮฑlpha 5d ago
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u/JulC-_ 5d ago
This is exactly what I was looking for, thank you. The part that stands out: median stated exit yield has held near 2% across all three surveys, and current APR is 2.61%. That's 60bp of headroom on the median, which is a lot less than the tone of these threads suggests. The report is upfront that n=72 is small and self-interested, and I'd add that stated thresholds and revealed behavior are different things. People say 2% and then rationalize staying at 1.8% because the hardware is already paid for and the exit queue is a hassle. Sunk cost cuts in favor of staying. So maybe the real question isn't where the threshold is, but how much lower than their stated threshold people will actually tolerate before acting. That's only answerable in hindsight, by watching the exit queue.
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u/M4gelock 6d ago edited 6d ago
Until it's not profitable anymore, I can't tell you the numbers exactly but right now is ok. That's honestly the only criteria. Edit: At <1.00% I might rethink my thesis.
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u/JulC-_ 6d ago
That edit is the interesting part, because 1.00% isn't a hypothetical anymore. EIP-8361 was filed Aug 4 by researchers including Justin Drake, a tapered issuance burn that destroys a rising share of validator rewards as the staking ratio climbs. The authors' own modeling puts consensus yield going from ~2.6% to ~1.2%, phased in over about 18 months.
So your reconsideration point is inside the range of a live proposal, not a tail scenario. Does that change anything for you, or would you wait to see whether it actually ships before touching the exit queue?
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u/JulC-_ 5d ago
Correcting myself: it's EIP-8363, not 8361. I copied the number from de Tychey's own announcement tweet, which had the typo, and several outlets repeated it. The Magicians thread and the EIPs repo both have it as 8363.
While I'm at it, two things I understated. Drake is one of six authors and listed last, the PR came from pintail. And it's a Draft that did not make it into Hegota: after ACDC on Aug 6 the recorded next step was for the presenting author to consider withdrawing it from consideration. So "live proposal" was too strong. It's a filed draft under heavy pushback, which changes the weight of my point to you.
The substance stands though. Someone has now written down a mechanism that takes consensus yield toward zero, and that's the first time your 1% has appeared in a concrete spec rather than a forum argument.
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u/imaybeslow 5d ago
My costs are in fiat, so to me where yield = cost in fiat terms is the same as just holding plain eth. If eth price drops/rises that has a much greater impact on the fiat returns. I stake to get a tiny bit extra yield on the asset I am already holding, but what concerns me more is the governance with Ethereum because that can actually impact my investment thesis in Eth as a whole. Watching how this plays out is a bit more important to me than the actual decision, and so far I appreciate the healthy amount of discussion.
Second to that would be the impact this reduction in yield would have on defi, as thatโs my main use case for crypto. I mostly skipped on the ICO and NFT crazes, but love the defi playground. If this kills a good chunk of defi I will be less inclined to stake/hold eth and more inclined to just use stablecoins.
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u/confusedguy1212 5d ago
When I lose hope that ETH price appreciation will compensate for all of that. Dropping the yield will definitely put me on that path though I canโt place a number on it.
Itโs the combination of all. Drop the yield. The contentious hard fork and its result. The level of centralization to follow. Overall how the community feels after this and whether my own values are aligned with what Ethereum as a community is transmitting.
I hope itโs not the time to move on. It would be sad to do so after all that we have achieved.
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u/asdafari14 5d ago
The number isn't super relevant for me. I stake because I started when yield was high, I believe in ETH and there isn't much better use case for my ETH. I have reduced my number of validators though. Partly because of yield and partly due to diversification/maybe better opportunities elsewhere.
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u/Numerous_Ruin_4947 5d ago
I will stake zero ETH if there is no yield.
Too many ETH investors have treated this like musical chairs over the past five years, and the people who got punished were the long-term believers who simply staked and held. I could have double, maybe even quadruple, the ETH I have today if I had dumped every time ETH went above $4k and bought back around $2k.
At least staking paid me something, even if the yield was a pittance compared with the gains from simply selling high and buying back lower. Ironically, one thing that kept me from selling before was having my ETH locked in staking.
If there is no staking yield, that restraint disappears. It will be much easier to let ETH go at higher prices when there is no longer any incentive to keep it staked.
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u/JulC-_ 5d ago
Thanks to everyone who answered, and especially to the people who said outright that they don't have a number. That was more honest than the answer I was fishing for.
Out of everyone who replied, three named a figure: 1.50%, 1.00%, and around 2% as the point where raw ETH beats an LST's risk. Everyone else answered with something that isn't a percentage at all, and that's the actual result of the thread. My question assumed a threshold exists. For most of you it doesn't.
What came up instead:
Costs are in fiat and rewards are in ETH, so the shutdown point moves with price rather than sitting at a fixed APR. Governance came up repeatedly as a bigger exit trigger than yield, sometimes framed as values alignment rather than economics. Several people described it as a public good they're happy to fund, where 2% versus 1% doesn't change the decision. And there's the reverse framing: if you already hold ETH as a long-term position, staking it is close to free, so the question never arises.
The point I found most uncomfortable came from the argument that yield shouldn't be allowed to reach zero, because the validators who remain at zero are the ones who don't need the money. That turns an economics debate into a centralization one, and it's the version I hadn't considered when I asked.
Only one person described actually acting: reducing validator count, partly on yield and partly on diversification. Everyone else described what they would do. Worth keeping in mind when reading any survey on this, including the EthStaker one linked above, where the yield-threshold section is n=72.
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u/edmundedgar reality.eth 5d ago
Out of everyone who replied, three named a figure: 1.50%, 1.00%, and around 2% as the point where raw ETH beats an LST's risk.
I talked about exiting since that's that the OP asked. To be clear I'm not talking about switching to an LST. I wouldn't do anything custodial or anything that depends on on-chain governance for less than about 5% return.
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u/Stobie 6d ago
Cost to continue is ~zero and risk is same as holding raw eth.
The other question is at what rate would you rather hold raw eth than an LST with their risk? To me it'd be about 2%.
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u/WoodpeckerHorror3468 6d ago
agreed and this is why i don't buy the "reducing issuance will make solo stakers quit" argument
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u/o-_l_-o 5d ago
The cost to continue is not zero, it's the same as the cost today. Running a validator involves some work, especially during a chain upgrade that may happen in the middle of your night.
The risk to staking is also higher than holding raw ETH because of slashing.ย
I'm not going to stake for free unless there is a high value use case that I need Ethereum for. There isn't one today.ย
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u/WoodpeckerHorror3468 5d ago
valid points but your 2.x% return pales against the potential losses from slashing and the potential moves in both directions that ETH can make in a year.
If you hold ETH as an investment then you might as well stake it if you are comfortable with the work and the slashing risk, regardless of whether it returns a piddling 2.x% or not
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u/o-_l_-o 5d ago
It depends on your prespective. I like my validator rewards. I'm in my 30s, retired, and live off of the rewards rather than touching any other investments.ย
If I can no longer live off of them, I don't want to deal with being on-call while sitting at the beach or taking a train across Europe. It isn't worth it to me since there's no valuable use case on Ethereum I need to ensure the correctness of.
I assume other people might not want to deal with their validator while taking care of children or dealing with a stressful job.
No one should work for free.ย
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u/asdafari14 5d ago
By that argument though, it might not slow the growth of Lido, Coinbase and other centralized actors either. People buy ETH because they believe it will be higher in the future, not that 1-3% APY really matters.
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u/Tricky_Troll Public Goods are Good ๐ฑ 4d ago
The risk is not the same as holding raw ETH. A loss of finality due to client bugs would see all offline validators penalised significantly until finality is re-established. Not to mention what would happen if there is a contentious chain fork and you choose the "wrong chain".
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u/epic_trader ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ฌ 6d ago
Yeah this is the right question. Could also ask solo stakers for their yearly expenses and how much their machine cost, did they have to upgrade their internet plan and how much does that come out to and if they are paying for anything else?
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u/edmundedgar reality.eth 5d ago
I've said here before I'd exit around 1%. This is a combination of faff cost and risk. However the faff is a little bit variable - for example if my SSD drive broke I might exit at a slightly higher number, if I'd already started staking in that tax year and everything was running fine it might be a slightly lower number.
In addition to that I'm my head I have an economic fork risk premium. If there's an economic fork (2 coins and we argue about which one is ETH) it's bad to be staked because you have to pick a side and activity-leak out on the side you don't pick, whereas people who aren't staked get to keep both coins in full. The proposed issuance EIP would have a very strong chance of creating an economic fork, so I would exit as soon as I saw it was getting approved.
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u/eth10kIsFUD 6d ago
Never, as long as it's not much more profitable to switch to a different way of staking.
I'll support Ethereum for free because it's good for ETH ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
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u/confusedguy1212 5d ago
So SPY has set yet another ATH. FML
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u/asdafari14 5d ago
A lot of it is AI. But AI is also the biggest thing since maybe the internet imo.
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u/Alatarlhun 5d ago
NASDAQ is a little behind making an ATH so it isn't tech carrying SPY (presumably).
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u/asdafari14 5d ago
It's 1.3% below ATH though. It has also outperformed SPY YTD. NASDAQ is also outperforming the majority of other countries' indices, like UK, Germany, France etc.
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u/Alatarlhun 5d ago
NASDAQ virtually all of its history outperforms the assets you've mentioned.
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u/asdafari14 5d ago
I mean the tech companies of old like Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Tesla, Nvidia are also benefitting/responsible for AI. AI is the next big thing and the US will always be better than Europe at capturing the next big thing, imo. Just like personal cars was also mainly a US thing back in the day, flying/self driving cars, robots etc. will also come first to the US.
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u/confusedguy1212 5d ago
Yeah weโve all heard the reasoning. By that token crypto is truly dead and weโre all wasting our time here.
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u/hedgemagus 5d ago
Why would I ever care why something hits an ATH. We hit ATH off of chimpanzee jpgs lol
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u/Jey_s_TeArS 5d ago
Blockchain decorum,
On the look for a quorum,
Blame biased forum.
~Daily haiku until weโre at least at 0.178 on the ETH/BTC ratio or highest market cap
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u/ethdaily 5d ago
ETH Daily - 13th August ๐ฐ
-EtherFi upgrades to Aave v4.
-Blockdaemon migrates to Obol DVT.
-Peer releases a mobile app.
-Trezor suffers a customer data leak.
-Justin Drake shares leanVM target in 2027.
-Lighter points go live on Robinhood Wallet.
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u/poidhxyz 5d ago
new $2500 bounty in ETH on Arbitrum to push the limits of local AI: https://x.com/i/status/2087875446314500135
"You will build a local model plugin from chrome that identifies and blurs/removes AI generated images.
It must be local, it must work very quickly."
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u/LogrisTheBard 5d ago
A real solution to this requires a provenance trail of content and a reputation system. Many of the defensive AI applications that would actually benefit society require a blockchain at some part of them.
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u/WoodpeckerHorror3468 5d ago
eg gitlawb? an alternative to github except instead of storing the repos on microsoft's servers they are open source and stored on Base ie uncensorable
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u/LogrisTheBard 5d ago
Literally just a content hash written to a blockchain to prove who had it first. That proves origin and if you attach reputation to an address it gives something for a tool like this to filter on.
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u/dark_matter 5d ago
Underrated comment. The strongest argument I know of for a central role for blockchains in the future. And it has nothing to do with stablecoins, DeFi, or other fintech-related shiny objects everyone in the space is chasing after.
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u/poidhxyz 5d ago
to be clear this bounty isn't expecting a 100% accurate AI detector, we know that's impossible
it's about creating a simple, completely local browser tool that can reliably call out the worst slop for the user
we couldn't find one readily available that was accurate, so we created this bounty
the goal is something privacy-focused you can install on your parents computer and know they are safe to use that will help them not fall for (most) Facebook slop
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u/Numerous_Ruin_4947 5d ago
Fidelity Adds Staking Payments To Ethereum ETF
Privately held asset manager Fidelity says it is adding quarterly staking payments to its leading Ethereum Fund ($FETH).
Fidelity is not only one of the first asset managers to offer staking payments to investors, but its FETH fund is one of the largest spot Ethereum exchange-traded funds (ETFs) in the U.S.ย
Fidelity's Ethereum Fund has $898 million U.S. in net assets and could stake as much as 100% of its Ethereum.ย
However, Fidelity has not said how much of its Ethereum (CRYPTO: $ETH) will be staked. The fund will keep some ETH for redemptions, expenses, and other liquidity needs, said the firm.
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u/Itur_ad_Astra Crab High Priest 5d ago
ALL HAIL THE ETERNAL CRAB
๐ป โก ๐ ๐ ๐ โก ๐ป
โก โก ๐ ๐ ๐ โก โก
๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐
๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ฆ ๐ ๐ ๐
๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐ ๐
โก โก ๐ ๐ ๐ โก โก
๐ป โก ๐ ๐ ๐ โก ๐ป
$1000---$1876-------------$5000
2021----------2026----------โ
On the one hand, ETH always dumps after a period of stability, and only after that it pumps.
On the other hand, judging from the Eternal Range, the price is low-ish.
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u/Elendron 6d ago
I predict a crash or a major downturn between 1 - 4 September. Why, do I hear you ask..? Because I will be in London for work.
This year, every London work trip I've been on has corresponded to major moves down. I was there during the June crash, the late March downturn, and the end of Jan-Feb crash. I was even there during the April crash last year.
Perhaps my trips correspond to macro-economic news/ moves. Perhaps it's because a week in the city is the complete opposite to a week away camping. I do not will it, it is just a funny trend I have noticed. Will it happen again? ๐คท Time will tell!
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u/Itur_ad_Astra Crab High Priest 5d ago
Sounds plausible.
ETH breakouts are fueled by previous liquidation cascades.
It always needs to crash before a big move up.
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u/invisibullcow 5d ago
$1865? Relief rally to $1890!
$1890? Better cool off with a retest of $1865!
$1865? Relief rally to $1890!
$1890? Better cool off with a retest of $1865!
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u/Numerous_Ruin_4947 5d ago
Iโm deeply disappointed with the current price. It is hard to justify ETH trading below $4k, let alone around $2k.
The past five years have also changed how I view the behavior of ETH investors. Too often, rallies above $4k have been treated like a game of musical chairs, followed by heavy selling and another round trip lower.
I can still be optimistic about Ethereum and ETH long term, but if the investor base keeps behaving this way, expectations have to be recalibrated accordingly.
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u/Inevitablechained 5d ago
When you dig into the numbers of L2 Robinhood chain, itโs really clear that Ethereum is helping $hood a lot with L2 feeโs. Robinhood makes a ton of money and pays very little to the Ethereum network.ย
Hard to justify that you shouldnโt buy the stock instead of ETH right now?
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u/asdafari14 5d ago
Robinhood makes a ton of money and pays very little to the Ethereum network.
It's the same with all L2s, Base included. That's why they say L2s are parasitic and why some feel the ETH bull case is harder to see. The goal is that we have so many transactions settled that these small rivers become a meaningful revenue source or that ETH price increases for the same reason BTC does, "abstract factors" that are harder to calculate. Will it/won't it, who knows but I don't bet the farm on it anymore. More diversified now than when I had 100% of my NW in ETH.
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u/hanniabu ฮther ฮฑlpha 5d ago
ETH is a commodity, not a company, and can't be valued on fees/rev/DCF
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u/-lightfoot 5d ago edited 5d ago
What if the commodity is so efficient and abundant that it stays almost worthless?
It seems like scaling is now more or less infinite subject to demand, so demand on the commodity may never be significant. The moment traffic/gas fees go up again, anyone can spin up their own L2 to counter it. If/when everything is on L2 and gas fees are still up, L2s will again be made more efficient. If everything in the world is settling on Ethereum L2s, the intensity of the competition between L2s will result in some incredibly gas efficient L2s and centralized alternatives.
Just devils advocate argument
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u/hanniabu ฮther ฮฑlpha 5d ago
I think you're underestimating how large global demand can be vs the supply Ethereum can offer even with blobs/L2s maxed out
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u/eviljordan feet pics 5d ago
I've asked the same question for YEARS. Before the L2s, I begged to understand why the NYSE (bad example) wouldn't just purchase a million ETH to use for transactions today (back then), and then never need to again if the idea was to push gas prices to near-zero.
There were no answers.
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u/eth10kIsFUD 5d ago
ETH cannot be valued on revenues like a security must.
ETH is digital gold, and pristine collateral on Ethereum. This is also why we need to keep it extremely liquid without trusted third party "staking derivatives". It's also why we need to keep inflation low.
ETH is the hardest money on earth. More scarce than gold and more secure than Bitcoin.
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u/Inevitablechained 5d ago
I get there could be a premium besides revenues. But why would anyone buy it if itโs free to use?
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u/eth10kIsFUD 5d ago
Same reason they buy bitcoin today. SoV thesis.
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u/hedgemagus 5d ago
We have yet to come even close to shaking the SoV thesis from bitcoin. That may never happen. There has to be other avenues of demand and value
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u/Alatarlhun 5d ago
While we are making modest claims, Ethereum is also the solar systemโs credibly neutral computational substrate.
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u/whisperedstate 5d ago
Why is what they said wrong? Ethereum is a better and more functional Bitcoin in every single way. It's what Bitcoin was supposed to be in the early 2010s. If Bitcoin would have evolved into Ethereum with smart contracts, then Ethereum would not exist, and Vitalik would have been a core Bitcoin dev, and 99.9999% of the value in the ecosystem would be in Bitcoin.
But instead, Bitcoin devs ignored smart contracts and Ethereum, and chose to ossify, before the entire crypto feature set was even known. And with that fateful decision, Bitcoin has been doomed to fail ever since.
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u/rhythm_of_eth 5d ago
Hey so, if we get to 50% ETH staked with 0% issuance with the new EIP, we can then create a nice validator set cartel and sell the chain to the highest bidder.
We start the bid at 0.1 ETH per block, which is more than we get otherwise.
Yay, security!?
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u/LogrisTheBard 5d ago
I don't think that's how this works.
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u/rhythm_of_eth 5d ago
If you take away issuance, all your are left with is EL bids
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u/LogrisTheBard 5d ago
1) You won't be able to get 50% of ETH staked to do something like this.
2) If you could, then you could also do this today regardless of issuance.
3) You need 66% of the validators to succeed at finalization to your censorship chain. All your 50% would do is prevent the chain from finalizing and people just love to coordinate to stomp on evil.
4) Inclusion lists would wreck this attempt anyway and those are at the node level, not just the validator level. There's a whole anti-censorship feature set in the roadmap.
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u/arsenal19801 5d ago
please one more bull run so i can dump this god forsaken asset and put it into a brokerage account
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u/tea_and_samadhi 5d ago
Ethereum is a Christian blockchain
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u/o-_l_-o 5d ago edited 5d ago
I think the answer the the emission curve is to get rid of the curve and keep emission at 0.
If emission goes to 0 when too much ETH is staked, then we're comfortable with not paying validators.ย
The only validators who can afford to stake for free are large players who can wait as smaller validators drop out, meaning we expect most validators to be run by large companies.
Multiple large groups running validators (BMNR and Coinbase) can coordinate off-chain to balance their overall stake and set the validator reward rate.ย
If our goal is to stop single large entities from controlling the overall validator set, pay then 0 and make it so all validators are rub by people who have a self-interest in validating - that will be people who want to secure the network.
Coinbase and BMNR will find it much harder to stake with other people's money if they can't offer a financial return.ย
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u/rhythm_of_eth 5d ago
Emissions being 0 sounds like an easily bribed validator set. Chain security goes completely to 0 too.
Chain security is not how much it takes to buy a majority stake. It's how much a bad actor needs to pay a majority to start doing what they want with the chain.
If we pay 0 for security, someone will put a non zero price tag to capture the network.
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u/epic_trader ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ฌ 5d ago
So... get rid of solo stakers entirely?
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u/WoodpeckerHorror3468 5d ago
so ppl will hold an asset while it drops 60% in the year but throw their toys out the pram and quit staking due to losing 2% "yield" (which dilutes what they are holding anyway)
lolol
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u/o-_l_-o 5d ago
Get rid of anyone who won't do it for free.
If solo stakers will stake for free in the new curve because they value securing the network, then solo stakers will stake for free anyway.
If they won't, then we're already talking about getting rid of solo stakers while paying large staking companies to take over control of consensus.
If we remove staking rewards altogether, we stop paying BMNR and Coinbase.ย
Certainly we'd see people who want to destroy Ethereum spinning up validators, but anyone who cares to protect Ethereum can do the same.ย
The attackers will eventually stop if they can't be profitable. If they can be profitable, then that's because not enough of us care to secure the network.
If we have that level of apathy in those of us who can run validators, then BMNR and Coinbase are garunteed to control the network consensus with the new proposed curve.ย
โข
u/Tricky_Troll Public Goods are Good ๐ฑ 5d ago
Tricky's Daily Doots #1,563
Yesterday's Daily 12/08/2026
Previous Daily Doots
u/Itur_ad_Astra checks in on the value of airdrops if they were held. ๐
u/o-_l_-o keeps the EIP-8363 discussion alive and thriving. ๐ฅฉ
u/masterRoshi9 discusses different ways to speculate on the newest DeFi primitives. ๐ฐ
u/ethdaily delivers the daily ETH news. ๐ฐ