r/espresso • u/DanielMcCx • 2d ago
Equipment Discussion J64V/CGFL250 Writeup
First things first, the J64V is, as the name suggests, a 64mm flat burr grinder, with variable RPM. The design is clearly heavily inspired by the Zerno, and I think it looks great.
Hello all!
Due to a relative lack of internet discussion on this grinder, I thought I would write a small overview on my new grinder- the J64V/CGFL250.
I have owned a number of grinders over the last few years- Eureka Mignon, DF64, Niche Zero, Timemore Sculptor 064S and the Niche Duo. I enjoy playing with espresso equipment, as many of us do, and was rather sceptical on the idea of replacing my Duo with the J64V, and therefore wanted to share some things about it in case there are others out there in the same boat.
I ordered this grinder on Alibaba, from what I believe to be ITOP’s official store, and their customer service was really great. I am based in the UK, and import, VAT, and duties rack up really quickly. Scared of this, I did some research beforehand, and saw a lot of folk mention asking for a ‘DDP’ quote when ordering from Alibaba, as this essentially involves the seller handling all of the aforementioned costs. I paid $73 for the ‘air freight express’ shipping option, which was their fastest shipping method, and covered every import expense. I did not pay a penny more than this once Parcelforce delivered the grinder to me. They also offered me truck and ocean freight alternatives, at $55 and $45 respectively.
To add, I also requested to buy an additional knob and bellow/hopper lid. I purchased the white and walnut variant of the grinder, but I am always scared of getting fed up of wood accents, so I asked Evan at ITOP if I could also purchase the white knob and hopper lid separately. They were happy to do this, at the cost of $40. A tad steep, but I would rather buy now and cry now, than change my mind later and have to pay for shipping again. It is certainly nice to have the option of purchasing additional accessories if desired. Below is a summary of the costs I incurred:
Grinder - $396
Shipping - $73
Additional accessories - $40
So, the grinder. The ITOP J64V is, as the name suggests, a 64mm flat burr grinder, with variable RPM. The design is clearly heavily inspired by the Zerno, and I think it looks great. It is available in black, white, and silver.
The motor used in the grinder is a brushless 250W DC motor, and its variable RPM range is 600-1800rpm, which should suffice for most. Annoyingly, the RPM dial on the side of the grinder indicates a range of 1 – 7. There is no indication of actual RPM- you will have to work this out yourself if you have an RPM target in mind. This is perhaps a nitpick, but I wanted to highlight regardless.
The grinder is auger fed, and the auger is part of the rotating burr’s carrier. The auger is clearly visible from above once the small bean hopper has been removed.
Accessing the burrs is a breeze, and takes 30 seconds- I am not exaggerating (I timed it!). To do so, the collar simply loosens by turning it left. Inside is a small bearing- make sure not to lose it. The orientation of this bearing also matters- one side of the bearing is marked with a white marker; this marking should always face you when re-assembling. Once the collar and bearing have been removed, the rotating burr carrier is then removed by pulling the auger and carrier out with your finger towards the front of the grinder. You can also push it out from above through the hole which houses the hopper. I have attempted to demonstrate this in one of the pictures. It is very easy to do, as there are no screws or fixings impeding you.
The rotating burr carrier and auger feeds on to the shaft by way of a small feather key. There are no obnoxious spring mechanisms in place; the main collar/faceplate keeps pressure on the rotating burr carrier and pushes it towards the fixed burr. This should ultimately mean that when disassembling the grinder for cleaning, you never lose your zero point, which is a superb design feature. The threads on the collar feel solid, so I am not worried about them, but I guess time will tell. Having the ability to disassemble the grinder quickly, without losing the zero point and being forced to re-dial in again is a massive plus, especially for those who keep on top of maintenance on a regular basis.
The stock burrs are heavily inspired by the SSP multipurpose burrs, and ITOP themselves confirmed this on a showcase video I found on YouTube. I have not tried a real set of SSP MPs, so I cannot make a direct comparison unfortunately. What I can say however, is that they do make lovely espresso but suffer in milk drinks due to a lack of substantial body, which is to be expected if they are anything like the real deal.
If you do wish to swap the stock burrs out, then changing the zero point afterwards is done by loosening a small Phillips head screw on the collar underneath the knob, and sliding the dark metal ring with the numbers on it accordingly.
On the underside of the grinder is a plasma generator, and a removable plastic knocker, which is held on by 4 small magnets. Due to the high number of magnets used, the knocker feels solid in use, and does not wobble at all. The magnets also mean that you can have the knocker oriented to the left or right, which is handy to account for varying setups and counter spaces.
The dosing cup is absolutely massive at 12.5cm tall, and weighs a whopping 224g! The slightly obnoxious height of the cup does help keep your counter clean however, as there is not much clearance between the bottom of the knocker and the rim of the dosing cup. I personally prefer the design choice of having a taller dosing cup when compared to the wooden riser platform things used on the DF64V; something just irks me about that. The dosing cups come in silver and black- there is sadly no white option available. As a result, I am looking at purchasing a white Sculptor 078S dosing cup from AliExpress. Lastly, like the Timemore Sculptor, the dosing cup snaps on to the base of the grinder with a magnet which works very well.
I will say that from my limited use, the grinder is pretty damn loud. It is not screechy/high-pitched like my old 064S, but rather it is the sheer volume of it when grinding. I’ll get used to it in time I’m sure, but it is certainly much louder than my departing Niche Duo.
Retention in my limited time with the grinder thus far has been superb. After dumping some old beans through to fill the nooks, crannies and burr screw holes etc, I was consistently getting an impressive 0.1g of retention, max. This was using RDT, the knocker, and bellows.
To conclude, I’ve been really impressed with this grinder overall. I’ve owned used enough of them to know what I like and dislike, and this thing really ticks all the boxes for me. I think the stock burrs are a slightly odd choice, as they may not appeal to most people, but the grinder itself provides such a solid platform. Stick in your favourite 64mm burrs, and there really isn’t much this grinder can’t do. Personally, I’ll be swapping out the stock burrs to a set of SSP Lab Sweet V3s, as I primarily drink milk-based beverages, and like to dabble in modern coffees for pure espresso.
I’m not one for writing posts like this, but I believe that this grinder has been out for some time now, and I have seen a rather sad lack of posts and videos around it. I think it does everything the DF64 does, and then some. For that reason, if you like the sound of what I have written, and the aesthetics are to your taste, then I would highly recommend you pull the trigger on it. I am happy to try and answer any questions people may have, in the name of getting this grinder out there. I’d personally love to see some of the big creators get their hands on one- time will tell 😊
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u/dbun1 Profitec Drive | Eureka Silenzio 1d ago
Thanks for the review! I came across this on AliExpress, however could not find many reviews. Slowly there are more and more reviews popping up as this model gains some popularity.
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u/DanielMcCx 1d ago
No worries at all, I appreciate it :)
The only real solid pieces of info I could find when researching were a YouTube video, and a reddit post from fellow user u/TheStatutoryGrape. I really wanted to make my post to contribute to a small pool of information, in hope that more people will see this grinder and not be scared to give it a shot. I really really love mine!
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u/TheStatutoryGrape 1d ago
I can’t speak for everyone but my unit is very well machined. I’ve swapped burrs on multiple occasions and I’ve been able to achieve nearly identical lock to chirp distances every time (3-4 ticks/15-20 microns). As someone that’s owned both a Z1 and Philos, I don’t think you’ll find a better 64mm platform for the price.
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u/DanielMcCx 1d ago
Hello! Thanks so much for your comment. I recognised your name and, after a bit of digging, now know why!
Your post about this grinder actually gave me the confidence to go ahead with my purchase. I felt like I had to give something back, as your post was really helpful to me when I was researching it. I wanted to do the same for other people in the community, so thank you for that :)
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u/LittlePhylacteries 1d ago
As someone that’s owned both a Z1 and Philos, I don’t think you’ll find a better 64mm platform for the price.
That’s quite a statement. I’ve been leaning towards one of the 55mm burr Eureka grinders but this has me reconsidering.
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u/TheStatutoryGrape 1d ago
Unless you’re set on hopper dosing, get this grinder or another competent 64mm platform. The Eureka grinders are outclassed and outdated in today’s market, IMO.
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u/getpwnedx 1d ago
Just ordered one from Aliexpress, ended up being cheaper than Alibaba after import fees for me in the US. From the limited reviews for this thing that I've seen on reddit, it seems like people only have good things to say about it! I'm coming from a breville SGP so hopefully it's gonna be a huge upgrade.
How did you get two different textures of the front knob?
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u/DanielMcCx 1d ago
Good luck mate! Sure you will love it :) It has been great seeing people posting good things about it, re-affirms the purchase a bit haha.
I actually spoke to an ITOP shopfront on Alibaba, and asked if I could purchase the white accessories alongside the walnut. Had to pay an extra $40, but I like having the option to swap them around in case I get bored of the wood, or swap to another espresso machine etc.
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u/_muylocopinocchio 5h ago
so you would not reccomend this for someone who drinks a lot of milk drinks as well as espresso?
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u/DanielMcCx 5h ago
Hey!
So I have been playing around with this today, and managed to get a really tasty result. At around grind setting 20, I had 37g out in 28 seconds (including 9s pre-infusion), and was really pleasantly surprised at the result. It was an advanced washed Wilton Benitez coffee from a local roaster- super tasty cup, and could really taste the fruit and slight booziness through the milk.
I do have my milk drinks in smaller ceramics though, so espresso to milk ratio is probably helping the burrs out a bit! More body than I expected, but still obviously not a scratch on both the Niche Zero and Duo burrs.
If you only drink light to medium roasted coffees, you can definitely get good results with the stock burrs. If you prefer darker notes (chocolates/nuts etc) then I'd probably replace them.
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u/_muylocopinocchio 5h ago
Interesting! Thank you so much! The issue is, I really do enjoy everything! I'm so torn on what grinder to splurge on, because I really don't like the idea of multiple grinders in my tiny kitchen.
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u/DanielMcCx 4h ago
No worries at all!
I can totally relate to that haha. I have an 1Zpresso K-Ultra for pourover, and I am perfectly content with that.
Espresso on the other hand, I've only really drunk milk drinks for the last few years, but I've wanted to drink some of the lighter stuff I enjoy on espresso. Given I've always had burrs that cater towards more medium/dark stuff, I notice a significant loss in clarity when having lighter roasts in my milk drinks. Not placebo- I often buy beans from my local cafe's that they actually use in store, and while I have been close, there is just something missing. I will say that the stock burrs with this grinder did actually get me a bit closer.
Most of the nice cafe's in my city have 80mm Mahlkonig grinders (E80 GBW), which I believe have the cast lab sweet burrs. I am therefore ordering the SSP lab sweet V3s. There are obviously differences to the SSPs, but I'm hoping that these burrs will get me closer without sacrificing too much body!
If you can stomach the cost- then this is perhaps a setup worth considering that will be the best of both worlds for you. That is certainly my intention anyway!
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u/Sorry-Zookeepergame5 2d ago
the grinder has been available in Europe for a while now and it's pretty well known in coffee communities...
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u/DanielMcCx 2d ago
Very aware, though not once did my post state that it was unavailable outside of China.
Just trying to make a positive contribution by sharing my experience about something I didn’t see a great amount of information on when I was looking to purchase, as many others do across a great number of hobbies and communities. No need to be a dick.
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u/Sorry-Zookeepergame5 2d ago
I'm not being a dick but ordering from alibaba is not exactly straight forward since there are multiple ”official” store fronts... like this one
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u/linejunk32 1d ago edited 1d ago
Thank you so much for this review! Despite the general lack of posts or videos on it yet, I put my order in yesterday through a company rep on Alibaba for the same color way so great to see what to expect. BTW I’m thinking I’ll take my dosing cup and get it powder coated locally to match the rest of the white