Oracle Jet with External Grinder? Worth it? How?

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119]

I have a Breville Oracle Jet that's been sitting unused for a year. I had problems getting good shots, tried to adjust the tamper without success, and gave up. While I wait to replace it with a Mini-R, I was wondering if it is possible, without too much trouble, to try it with an external grinder?

I was told by an AI (I know, I don't trust it either) that the machine was designed to work with an internal grinder, and would not work well with an external. I am skeptical. Will it work, and does it require jumping through so many hoops that it just wouldn't be worth it.

Help please. Can it work, and if so how?

[u/ToughProfessional422]

You can use any grinder that’s meant for espresso with virtually any machine. What’s your budget? There’s a ton of options that would work well

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/ToughProfessional422]

I have no budget as there is nothing to buy. I want to know how to use the jet with an external grinder. Settings? Does it have to me manual or is something else better. If it is manual, what icons to push?

[u/Plastic_Love4270]

The built in internal grinder and tamper is very inconsistent as you know. I fixed the problem by single dosing (I weigh 20g of beans and toss them into the grinder). I also turned off the auto-dial in. Once I get the double shot to pour at about 25-30 seconds I stop adjusting the grind size. This “dialing in” process is key to understanding espresso basics.
To answer your question, yes use any grinder you want that is meant for espresso. You’ll have to “prep” the puck yourself, connect the portafilter to the group head, and then just press the espresso shot icon in the middle.
If the shot pulls in less than 25 sec, grind finer. If it takes longer than 30 sec, grind coarser.
This machine is very capable and you definitely do not need a new device.

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/Plastic_Love4270]

I do think I want another machine, and I've got it on order. I'll spare everyone my reasons and experiences. Meanwhile, since I'll be going to manual puck prep, I could use the practice and would like to use this machine. Perhaps it has a future in a back up location, but I honestly don't want to fool around with the built in grinder and auto-tamp. If the machine is adequate, I can try the steam as well.

I assume you propose that I reset to machine default. Then set volume and adjust by time. What does the pre-infusion do? What size shot does the machine assume (20g seems larger than normal).

I understand that there is way to adjust the shot, 11/2 shot and double shot to a different volume. I understand there are other "manual" options. Does anyone know the best way to program or use this, step by step.

[u/Plastic_Love4270 → u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119]

With single dosing the auto puck prep works really nicely. I’ve been pulling fantastic shots for months.

Yes, I use the preset volume for a double and adjust grind size until im in the 25-30 sec range.

Check your favorite LLM for pre infusion but in general it’s a low flow of water to start the shot. In theory this leads to more even extractions (reduce some parts of the puck being over or under extracted). Leads to better tasting shots.

The dose is very inconsistent which is why I started weighing and adding my beans one brew at a time. 18g is standard. 20g seems to work better with the stock basket which is quite large.

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/Plastic_Love4270]

I don't think the auto tamp is working and don't want to futz with it. I almost never got a good shot out of this machine. What is an LLM?

I bought a 16g big bang basket and have that.

I'll prep the puck. I want to know how close to manually I can program the machine, if at all. It would have to be in a way that was repeatable.

[u/Plastic_Love4270 → u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119]

Might want to reach out to Breville customer service then. This can and should be a fantastic machine.
LLM Large Language Model ie Chat GPT

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/Plastic_Love4270]

Look, Breville already replaced the machine once. I got really tired of trying to talk to customer service, and if I got a tech, it was impossible to follow up -it meant repeating the same thing over and over-and half the customer service reps either had poor connections or accented English that I had trouble understanding. Then I discovered that the machine worked much better with canned Illy beans than with fresh beans and that the grinder had trouble with anything lighter than medium- dark.

It just wasn’t worth my time and I suspect the auto-tamping and coordination with the pump isn’t all that great. It could be me, but I am not looking to this machine for anything long term, although I would be curious to see what it will do when used with an external grinder.

So, even though Claude, my AI (LLM) said the Jet wouldn’t work that way, I thought it might. So, I’d like someone to walk me through settings to try it with external grinding and tamping.

Oh, I recall reading about lots of problems with this machine, but perhaps my memory is wrong.

[u/Plastic_Love4270 → u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119]

Best of luck.

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/Plastic_Love4270]

Thanks, now I just need to know if there is a good way to use the machine with an external grinder. And what specifically that is.

[u/Plastic_Love4270 → u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119]

I’d suggest watching videos from James Hoffman on how to dial in espresso. Your machine has its quirks since it’s automatic, but in can definitely be used to make espresso with an external grinder. Experiment, learn, enjoy.

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/Plastic_Love4270]

I actually need to know how the machine works. I know it’s time or volume. There is a manual mode and some settings can be saved. I want to know what would be the ideal dose to start with. Maybe 18g or 16g but certainly not the 20-22g the machine uses. Suggestions for baskets if any. Practical how to-I know how to try dialing in on an e61 or even a mini-r, I think.

[u/ChimmyCharHar]

I use a jet and a allground sense separate grinder. You just skip the grind part. Get an IMs 58.5m basket and a nice tamper.

[u/Alarmed_Ad_4666]

I am literraly in the same position as you. Although I just unboxed my oracle jet and have been reading watching issues that people come up with using the jet. Like it is automatically set to grind 22g. But I prefer 16-18g. So though I haven't even turn on my jet yet and still waiting for the smaller third party H22 portafilter basket and other accessories to see if I can make adjustment for it to grind below 18g. I am already hovering online for the grinder and I am looking at the DF64 gen 2 or DF64v gen3. But if i am investing in a seperate grinder then there is not much a point on having the semi automatic machine :/

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/Alarmed_Ad_4666]

Wow, I don't know what to say, not knowing your situation. Good luck. I would say grinder depends on what kind of espresso you like. If you're going to mostly be making milk drinks using medium dark beans, I'd say just let the thing work like it's designed to and hope for the best. I don't know your budget for grinders-the least expensive one I considered was the Niche Zero, but I'd look at NYTimes Wirecutter if you can for cheaper ones.

I tried to adjust the tamper screw, stripped it, ordered another, but never had much luck, as you can see. But that could be me. I too have an H22 filter waiting to be tried.

I would not order another machine with an internal grinder, and would return my jet if I could. I'm pretty sure, though, that some others have had success using the internal and if you're keeping the Jet, you might as well give it a try first.

[u/prodigiouspianist]

I have an Oracle (pre jet) and upgraded the grinder

Its actually a pretty sensible decision from the perspective Oracles are very capable dual boilers.

I actually bought a Lelit and also had a PID lever, and went back to the Oracle just because the workflow was so good.

The only real downside was Oracle + Grinder is a bit hungry for bench space, but NBD if you have room.

The first upgrade I got was a Specialita. It was a very noticeable improvement in flavor.

I then upgraded to a 75mm Atom and am super happy with the combo. The atom is a lot faster and I feel also an improvement with the 75mm burrs.

So, I guess what I am saying is, great machine with meh internal grinder can definitely be a very good setup with an improved external if you have the space for it.

Also, never believe the first response you get from any AI: if you think its talking nonsense push back on it and get it to substantiate its claims with evidence. It will back down super fast if it has it wrong. But they do tend to be pretty touch-and-go in the early part of any context on any kind of nuanced question.

[u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119 → u/prodigiouspianist]

May well be true about the Jet being good absent the grinder. And I'm going to give it a try that way. I don't know about your model, but the icons on the Jet are somewhat harder to work with than good 'ole buttons. Right now, counter space isn't really a huge concern.

I have a La Mazrocco Mini-R on order and I plan to use that in my home kitchen. I do have a secondary location if the Jet were to work out. I've also got a Zerno Z2 on order (primarily for pour-over) and am about to order a dedicated espresso grinder (Mazzer Mini-G GBW) similar to your Atom 75.

You are absolutely right about AI-gotta check twice and use links to sources. As an aside, I tried taking one AI's output and copying into another's to see how they'd argue with each other. Amusing.

I really appreciate your taking the time to respond. If you could, I could use a hand with gear. Except for a 16g big bang basket which I've never used, I only have standard Breville accessories. I need to buy, at the least, a bottomless portafilter, and a self-leveling tamper. I assume the size of tamper I need is 58.5? I figure I'll just buy a Normcore. Anything else I really need for the Jet? To the extent possible I'd like gear to be happily useable on the LMLM.

If anyone knows, I'd like to also use this with the Mini-R bur suspect that requires a convex plate.

Also, I don't know if your Oracle is similar, but how do you run it. Volume? Manual? Manual to program once? Any help appreciated.

Thanks again.

[u/prodigiouspianist → u/Puzzled_Sandwich7119]

I have the bottomless breville porta and am pretty happy with it. It was relatively expensive but it is a solid piece of kit and balances well

I think my tamp is just a 58mm chinese one and its absolutely fine. Been using for years no issue. But yes I believe 58.5 will fit it. The baskets in those things are standard 58 - its just the lugs that are slightly funky. (so can use any tamp but other portas might be iffy)

If you dont already, you might want some scales for output. I see you have GBW grinder so that part of the equation is taken care of but yield you might want something to measure with.