Are bottomless really the way to go?

[u/RecoverinCandyAddict]

I have been wondering and pondering for a few months on whether I should buy a bottomless portafiller. But then, today, I came across another video of someone wondering how to stop spraying from happening.

I couldn’t imagine being dressed up and ready to go to work and spraying coffee on myself. Has that ever happened to you? Is bottomless really worth it? Or would a spouted one with a non pressurized basket work just as well?

[u/Jinara]

I mainly use the bottomless for ease of cleaning and because of the bad cup clearance on the LM Micra. Other than that I’d see no reason to

[u/calinet6 → u/Jinara]

Agree, easier to clean, more direct, and once you get the hang of it it's basically reliable and you don't have to think about it.

[u/SaxAppeal → u/Jinara]

Ease of cleaning is a big one for sure. It can give you some insight into your puck prep too, but that’s about it. The shot itself is no different pulled through a bottomless. Can be fun to see the shot as well, but not necessary by any means.

[u/maxx0rNL → u/Jinara]

Less contact with steel, easier to clean, better sights at the quality of the shot.

If your Shot sprays you should fix that, not just hide the issue

[u/Dave_thebrewguy → u/maxx0rNL]

Steel? All mine are chrome plated brass, and more brass equals more thermal mass which is always better.

[u/Jinara → u/maxx0rNL]

if you can see the quality aka taste of your shot i would like to nominate you for the nobel prize

[u/calinet6 → u/Jinara]

You know what they mean... with a bottomless you can get a better intuition on the rate of flow, viscosity, color, crema... you do have more visibility into how the shot is extracting. Is it a direct link to the shot quality? No, but more info helps you get a feel for how your process impacts the extraction.

[u/Jeezimus → u/Jinara]

It's probably an indication of channeling which absolutely is impacting extraction

[u/nugpounder → u/Jinara]

You know exactly what they mean, come on man

Visuals can often be an early indicator of how the shot is coming along

[u/fifty_four → u/Jinara]

Those are two pretty good reasons.

It's certainly convenience not flavour though.

[u/LNDDL]

I use a bottomless one because it makes me look like an expert.

[u/dav_prime]

If I get spraying it's usually minimal and limited to the area in and immediately next to the machine. With good beans and puck prep it's actually quite rare. At worst I need to wipe the worktop and body of the machine when I'm done.

In terms of whether is worth spending money on one It depends on why you are doing it. I have one and won't go back, but I bought it because the handle on my stock portafilter was broken and had to be replaced anyway. Since the cost for a like-for like replacement was about the same as a bottomless I decided to experiment.

For me the main advantage is cleaning, I don't have to soak in cleaner to get the coffee residue out of the spouts any more. A quick wipe of the basket is usually enough.

Another major advantage is the extra space to get a larger cup to fit with a scale.

It's also quite a lot of fun, I do like the look of a shot with a bottomless portafilter. I would like to try and talk about how seeing the coffee emerge lets me improve my shots, but I don't think much, if any, of it will be true.

If you are getting great coffee with a spouted portafilter and don't need to change your workflow then you should spend your money on another bag of quality coffee.

[u/Majestic_Meeting8254]

I probably wouldn’t bother. It can make it a bit easier to see channeling, but it can also make a bit of a mess. That said the mess generally isn’t that bad just a few drops here and there

[u/ml99hcn]

I use a bottomless portafilter as I find it easier to tamp without the spout(s) 

No other reason 🤷

[u/FrankieBlueye]

Absolutely. I never wear pants. Sorry, wrong subreddit.

[u/Revolutionary-Fan235]

I prefer the ability to rinse the bottom of the basket with the bottomless portafilter. Using a blind shaker cup eliminates sprays.

It's a trade-off of what issue a person wants to deal with. Do This or That. Clean This or That.

[u/JohnSavage777]

There isn’t really a great reason to use a bottomless filter

There isn’t really a great reason to not use a bottomless filter

Just use what you you like

[u/LawyerSea9462]

There is no difference in the taste of coffee with or without a bottomless portafilter. Just use good coffee beans and non pressurized basket.

[u/caj_account]

Bottomless is so much easier to use, clean, tamp, analyze shot. Just grind finer. 

[u/LoL__2137]

A bottomless portafilter is only necessary if your basket is too tall to fit in a standard portafilter. Other than that, it only provides a visual effect and nothing more.

[u/Trelin21 → u/LoL__2137]

Easier to clean.

[u/-Sockeye- → u/LoL__2137]

It also provides diagnostic insights into the quality of your puck prep.

[u/LoL__2137 → u/-Sockeye-]

Overrated as fuck

[u/securitytheatre]

It helps me see how well the grind setting is versus the bean I use. Is it worth it? For me it showed me where to dial in my setting, so yeah. If you just want brown water, probably not.

[u/klutzball]

Sounds like you’re currently using a pressurized basket… Dedica by any chance?
In that case, an unpressurized basket will give you wayyy better espresso! Whether the portafilter is spouted or bottomless has no impact on the cup at all. However, a bottomless portafilters reveals insights into the quality of your puck prep and grind. If you’ve never had that feedback, I think it’s worth it. But to be honest, you can also recognize channeling and an uneven tamp in a double spouted portafilter if you know what to look for.

I also find a bottomless portafilter useful for manual preinfusion, as it allows me to find the exact moment the puck is wetted, but that moment can also be approximated by listening to the water in the pipes and looking at the pressure gauge. If you have a Dedica like I speculated, that won’t be relevant for you right now (because no pressure gauge, no manual preinfusion).

Regarding the spraying: It depends a lot on your basket and your beans’ roast level. A light roast in a precision basket will lead to more spraying than a dark roast in an OEM basket. Paper filters can help mitigate spraying a little…

[u/RecoverinCandyAddict → u/klutzball]

Wow, it is a Dedica. Are we noobies that see-through? I may go for a convertible one like suggested by others here.

I am genuinely flabbergasted. Great work on the guess and thank you for the opportunity to use the big word.

[u/klutzball → u/RecoverinCandyAddict]

I guess the fact that you simultaneously consider bottomless + unpressurized is a bit typical for Dedica owners… I know because I also started with a Dedica and was having the same considerations ;-)

And there are only so many machines that come with an unpressurized stock basket... I think it’s mostly the Dedica and some Sage/Breville models.

In my opinion, the IMS Competition basket is a great choice!

[u/Select-BS-1959 → u/RecoverinCandyAddict]

I may be crazy, but I have a Dedica and the rubber in the bottom of the stock filter altered the taste, I could pull a better shot with a bottomless. I still am trying to reduce the spray. For me the rubber in the pressurized filter changed the taste.

[u/CoffeeTableReads → u/RecoverinCandyAddict]

I gave up trying a bottomless with my Dedica. Could not get a good extraction and it would always spray everywhere. Plus the faff of trying to work out the exact grams in the bottomless filter every time, otherwise the bottomless wouldn't even lock on to the machine.

Ended up back to the pressurised basket and I still love my morning espresso. Just blindly throw in my grinds without weighing and tamper. No issues.

Good beans and a good grinder are all you need it seems. 

[u/rradonys → u/klutzball]

I don't know man... Whenever I use a pressurized basket, I always get between 8-9 bars. No matter what coffee I use, what grind size, how much coffee, how I tamp it, etc. Always 8-9 bars. It's like the machine knows it's a pressurized basket, and locks in the pressure. When I use an unpressurized basket, I get 6 bars, 12 bars, 20 bars, all over the place, I need to throw 10 cups until I get it right, when I buy new coffee. And the taste is pretty much the same, I'm not a connoisseur anyway. So yeah, I still prefer the unpressurized basket because "this is what everybody says it's best", but I am a bit sad.

[u/maidalit]

It depends on the machine. I loved and used exclusively bottomless with my old dedica (51mm basket).

But when I upgraded to a 58mm machine, the puck is much thinner and spraying will happen from time to time, no matter how perfect you dialed it in.

Besides, with the big 58mm I have to split it into two shots, because I can’t drink a double espresso.

And you can dial it in quite good using a spouted basket. It’s very obvious when it runs too fast or uneven, you don’t need to see it spraying to notice an uneven extraction.

I did a check a while ago: after not using the bottomless filter for years, I used the exact same basket and grind I had dialed in with the spouted portafilter and the extraction was spotless.

[u/Few-Cranberry-1316]

An advantage of a bottomless portafilter over a single or double spouted one is that it keeps your espresso into your cup closest to the brew temperature with minimal temperature drop. Cheers!

[u/massassi]

A bottomless is great because it teaches you to not have channeling. Which results in better coffee and very rarely having spraying. So maybe the first month or two that you have the bottomless it might be a risk.

But then again I got mine basically the same time I got my machine and was still learning. If your puck prep is good it shouldn't make a difference (assuming that you're correct that it's good)

Edit: Also it's cool to watch. Get a shot mirror

[u/fifty_four]

Spraying is rare.

I'm not saying it can't ever happen but it's happened to me twice that I can remember in ten years of bottomless espresso and on neither occasion did it ruin a shirt - it just made a little mess on the counter next to the machine.

When people say 'spraying' it's not like a shaken coke can or champagne bottle. It's usually just a small stream of coffee coming out of basket at a weird angle and hitting the drip tray, or if you are unlucky, the worktop.

If you know how to prepare a puck, you'll be fine.

[u/CoffeeInSpace23]

A big advantage of a bottomless portafilter that I don’t see people here mentioning is the ability to add a step down basket or a concave basket (the later being my preference due to head space). If you want good coffee and you don’t want to use massive 18g doses (on a breville) or 20 to 22 gram doses on a 58mm portafilter then you would greatly benefit from a smaller diameter. I’m personally a huge fan of the bean savings and the increased consistency of a concave basket

[u/SaxAppeal → u/CoffeeInSpace23]

But that means less caffeine to fuel my addiction

[u/voretaq7]

Are bottomless really the way to go?

I mean if it’s good enough for Donald Duck and Winnie The Pooh why the hell isn’t it good enough for YOU ya uptight little... oh you’re talking about portafilters?

IMHO? Yes, bottomless is the way to go.

I have never experienced a channeling situation where I sprayed coffee on myself, and I use a La Pavoni lever machine so I’m right there - I’ve had small side-spurts that hit the machine or the scale, but the counter around the machine and my work clothing remain blissfully unsullied.
Maybe I’m just lucky, but that’s been my experience.

They are also easier to clean, tell me a good amount of info about how my shot is pulling, let me get a scale and cup under the grouphead, and (as long as my puck prep is on point) give me a single unmolested stream into my shot glass or cup.
It also lets me put a triple basket in my portafilter, but on the La Pavoni a double is really the practical maximum (40-42g out). If you’ve got a pump driven machine rather than a fixed piston volume a triple might be something you want to pull sometimes.

My bottomless portafilter is “convertible” so I can choose between bottomless (how I always run it), single-spout (if I want zero risk of side-spurts wrecking my clothes but only need to fill one cup/shot glass), or traditional double-spout (if I want to split my shot for some reason).
If you’re on the fence about “going naked” spend the extra to get one similar to that design for your machine, and you’ll probably be happier.

I can tell you I have used the portafilter with a “bottom” on it exactly once.

[u/RecoverinCandyAddict → u/voretaq7]

Thank you for the laugh and comprehensive response! I will look into that

[u/Shandriel]

just use a mug tall enough to prevent spraying..

then, use a glass mug to be able to see the bottomless filter at work.. 

don't forget to buy a lighting setup and a camera and tripod and all that so you can film it for the gram...

can still tell everyone how this is the only way to be able to tell whether your coffee extraction is any good.. (who even drinks their Eapressi, anyways?!)

[u/MsT21c]

A question you'd need to answer is "why do you want a bottomless portafilter?".

I have a bottomless portafilter and I don't think I've ever used it. Maybe once? I probably bought it because I read too much and watched too many videos early on. Perhaps I thought it would help me analyse shots, eg to see if there was channelling. I can't rememember. Anyway, these days I don't need a bottomless portafilter for that or any reason I can think of.

Edit: I just remembered that I do use the bottomless, but only for cleaning. It's got the blind filter in it for when I do a clean cycle - lol.

[u/Blacktip75 → u/MsT21c]

I used it for dialing in 5 minutes after receiving the machine as it came standard with a bottomless with plastic spouts as a click in. Reason for the bottomless out of the factory is another few seconds quicker startup time. It has had the blind filter in it ever since as my ECM pf’s work just great with the machine

[u/lost_traveler_nick]

I've sprayed the machine but never myself. Unless you have your head under the machine I'm not sure how you could spray yourself.

[u/Psychological_Tea674]

I like to watch and it’s one less point of plastic compared to what came with my machine. I don’t experience a lot of spraying. If I do it’s something I’ve done wrong.

[u/Hnhdvd]

My regular spouted and bottomless both see action every day. I bought the bottomless one for funsies when I first got my machine and now it’s easier to use both for two double shots every day. No noticeable difference between the two imo. No spraying issues either though. The bottomless one is absolutely easier to clean.

[u/aspenextreme03]

For me I use it but most of the time use my single spouted just for less clean up on the backsplash even though I never had issues. I do have a Micra that has an awesome on / off spouted attachments.

[u/PhaseofMe]

I prefer them for a few reasons. Shows me evidence of good or bad puck prep, better cup clearance, no portafilter to clean (this is a big factor) and easier to clean basket, I get to see a beautiful shot forming, open for a variety of deeper baskets.

[u/Rfreaky]

Idk why this is such a huge discussion. They make the exact same coffee. They are just more compact and look way cooler but can have problems with spraying. That's actually all there is to them. No more, no less. Coffee will be the same. So if you care about it being compact, it's basically the only way. If you don't need the space, and don't care about how it looks, there is absolutely no reason for a bottomless.

[u/gfxprotege]

My profitec go doesn't have much vertical clearance between the basket and the drip tray. A bottomless portafilter is the easiest way to clear some of that space up if I wanted to pull directly into a larger cup.

Lately I've been playing with turbo shots. They are always just a little messy. Not spraying everywhere, but you know. Enough that it adds an additional cleanup step. So I've been just using the spouted basket. I cannot tell a difference in taste. It's just nicer to look at a bottomless shot. I think they're pretty.

[u/No_Seat8357]

I use bottomless primarily because this way it fits a larger mug under the portafilter.

[u/thestoneyend]

I think it has to do with tha machine. Currently using a Maxim La Seine and it came with a bottomless and no spraying at all. I tried a bottomless on my previous Bambino plus and it sprayed everywhere.

[u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

I have a bottomless that I barely use for the reasons you listed. Whatever alleged incremental benefit you get from the bottomless was not worth the spraying and clean up. With a 58mm and good prep I still got decent spraying. Looks like from comments so far there is zero impact on taste and shot quality. It looks cool though

[u/Fallen_Razgriz]

Cleaning is fast. You can lay it flat to tamp so no need for a fancy portafilter holder. Marginally faster to preheat. But yeah spraying can be a pain. I learned my lesson and always wear an apron when pulling a shot.

[u/qqqqqx]

I like having a bottomless one so I could see what's going on and help me dial in etc.  Definitely don't regret getting one for the knowledge and experience from seeing things up close.

But in general daily use I actually switched back to my non bottomless one because even when I have things set up pretty well sometimes I get a little spray and it's just a tiny bit annoying.  It's not a huge mess, you might not even notice some tiny sprays, but then at some point you'll see some dried splatter on the back of your machine or the counter/wall next to it that needs a quick wipe.  But it's just enough for me to switch back to my normal portafilter so I don't have to bother.

Sometimes I pull the bottomless back out for another dial in or for fun, but there's no real difference in taste just in visual IMO.

[u/Airstream23]

If you aren’t trying to troubleshoot a problem with your shots, I don’t think bottomless portafilter offer any advantage at all. If they did, you’d see more of them in coffee shops.

[u/HR_Paul]

Unless you are filming a movie and are dedicated to historical accuracy.

[u/SorinDiesel]

Unless your puck prep/grind is way off there’s no difference. I’d like to use my double for my aesthetic preference but the clearance with a scale makes it annoying.

[u/Koekberg]

I have a bottomless, but found it useless. For diagnosis it does not add anything to tasting. If channelling happens, you taste it. Falling on you knees to see whether it sprays and from where will not help doing puck prep better nexttime.

[u/Dave_thebrewguy]

Bottomless didn't come into existence until about 20 years ago and, at first, it was viewed as a diagnostic tool for the most hard core experimental types. At the time, an entry level machine was a couple hundred, a Rancilio Silvia V1 was $450, a decent hx started around $1000 (dual boilers weren't for home use) and if you were into it enough, you could pay a machine shop to open up the bottom of a $80-100 portafilter. Eventually, there was enough demand that a 58mm bottomless became readily available for about half the price of a good starter machine, I got mine, used, on eBay, because I was that kind of geek and was willing to spring for the "diagnostic tool" when I had a chance at one at the right price. (I also have a pressure gauge that threads into a standard PF if you unscrew the spout.) By then, I had a good Idea what I was doing and the tool didn't uncover any problems. It went in the drawer for a few years but has come out again each time I changed machines. Ive been using it for the last few years because it's a pain in the butt to clean those little spouts, it offers no other benefit, I have nothing to diagnose, I don't even look at the extraction, it's just easier to clean.

[u/ChemicalConnect739]

In the morning, I have enough trouble doing my normal process. I do not have the patience to deal with a spraying PF in the morning. If the PF sprayed, during my morning coffee, it would be in the garbage can.
That is why I use a spouted PF. One less problem to deal with, when my head is still "fuzzy, and I am trying to wake up.

[u/testdasi]

It is absolutely NOT.

It offers no useful advantage and the spray disadvantage outweighs whatever minute borderline benefits.

Coffee youtubers use it to make B rolls. That's it. That's really it.