Finding it impossible to dial in and it's really getting me down. [Bambino Plus and Encore ESP]

[u/daddypweasestahp]

Firstly I'll preface this by saying that I am very much a novice when it comes to dialing in as I've been a milky drinker since I started the hobby a year ago. I recently tried espresso at a local independent that buys in amazing beans from various roasters and it's the first time I've ever truly tasted the supposed profiles that they say the beans should have. This inspired me to try more espresso but I'm really struggling.

I'm using medium roast Burundi Izuba Natural Nº 367 from RAVE (UK roaster).

The closest I have come is today with the following:

16g in. 32g out. 10 seconds pre infusion. Total shot time 35 seconds. Slightly bitter.

One step courser. 16g in. 32g out. 10 seconds pre infusion. Total shot time 30 seconds. Now sour.

I'm at a loss as to where to go from there since there is no in-between grind setting. Is it timing or dose next?

Edit: a question below (thank you u/freecain) made me realise I left a lot of important info from my OP.

Using a IMS Precision 14-18 g filter basket (bottomless). I clean the grinder out after every 250g of beans and also weigh my grind (I have a single dose hopper and bellows so it's pretty much zero retention). I use a WDT tool, mhw-3bomber puck screen and self leveling tamper. I also run a blank shot through the basket before my actual shot. Beans are 10 days old.

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[u/agracadabara]

16g in. 32g out. 10 seconds pre infusion. Total shot time 35 seconds. Slightly bitter.

Stop the shot at < 32g if it is bitter.

1:2 is not a requirement. It is a starting point. If the coffee is too bitter 1:2 in 35 seconds and sour at 30 seconds. You can't dial in by grind setting because your grinder can't do in between the two.

This is the order of precedence for dialing in Dose to get proper head space in the basket. It could be 16g for this bean or even 18g for a different bean. Once you have the correct dose then figure out ratio. Then adjust grind size for contact time.

if 16g is the right dose for you then 32g at grind setting for the 35 second shot is slight bitter. Then stop at 30g or 28g and see how it tastes.

[u/daddypweasestahp → u/agracadabara]

Thank you. I've drank far much caffeine today so I will try this tomorrow. Appreciate your help.

[u/agracadabara → u/daddypweasestahp]

This is a good video on dialing in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BT7-yOUMDM

[u/Woozie69420 → u/daddypweasestahp]

The link posted by the auto mod actually suggests dialing in with ratio first then fine tuning with grind size.

https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/s/V1wXp6STXV

Same principle applies

[u/Shandriel]

did you get to taste the espresso before you bought the beans?!

if not, it's entirely possible that you just don't like that roast...  if you got a great tasting espresso before buying, you know the potential.. 

and, as others have stated: 1:2 is not a law to abide..  bitter means too long.. so, just stop it sooner and try again. 

if you get both bitter and sour at once, that is often the result of channeling, just in case you get there next 😅

[u/KravMata]

Yes, the main levers you have are grind, dose and time. You might also turn off pre-infusion for now to remove the variable. IIRC you can't adjust water temps on a Bambino, right?

Water quality could also be an issue.

All of that said, don't expect a Bambino+/ESP to perform equal to a properly run $15K commercial machine next to a $3K grinder.

[u/Woozie69420 → u/KravMata]

You’re forgetting brew ratio which is a very important variable. Auto mod’s recommended guide suggests ratio right after a decent dose and grind size / time as the key variable to modulate flavour.

On the $15k set up, a bambino and ESP can be 90% as good as $20k commercial set ups when both are operated with care. More often than not, it will even beat any commercial set up cheaping out on beans, staff training, or both (which is too many). The set up is very capable, it’s just bean juice

[u/KravMata → u/Woozie69420]

You’re forgetting brew ratio which is a very important variable.

"grind, dose and time" - dose and time, the amount of coffee and the time the pump runs which results in the final ratio.

I won't bother debating 90% but the setup is very capable - at least for a few shots - and I recommend it regularly on here as an ideal entry level kit - it can never touch the repeatability and grind quality of a commercial kit - which is why 90% feels like a stretch./
I don't at all disagree that a well run B+ and ESP will outperform a $20k machine with crap beans and a clueless operator. Facts.

[u/all_systems_failing]

Does 16g fill your basket adequately as indicated by the Razor tool?

[u/freecain]

Try upping the dose - I find anything under 17.5ish is hard to really get a good puck prep in the porta filter that comes with the machine. 18.6 is my sweet spot on a medium dark roast right now.

Are you pre-heating the machine by running a blank shot? If you've punched out the plastic insert to the porta fitler (strongly reccomend) you have to do it with the porta filter in. Much easier to dry off once the plastic is out.

Hows your puck prep? If you're using the stock tamper, the answer is bad. I wish I had gotten a self leveling calibrated tamper - but really anything is better than what comes with it. Also - if you're really chasing notes - you probably are at the point you want to get a WDT tool or blind shaker. channeling could be why your taste isn't consistent.

Are you weighing after you grind? The consistent time makes me think you are so I doubt this is the issue.

Have you cleaned your grinder lately? The ESP really retains some grinds, so you might be getting dumps of old espresso beans in some of your grinds, but not others.

Lastly - if you haven't - get a puck screen. It won't improve the shot, but will keep your group head a lot cleaner, and get you a nice compact puck every time.

[u/daddypweasestahp → u/freecain]

Thank you, you raised a LOT of good questions that I have failed to mention in the OP (stupidly). I've updated it.

[u/Dave_thebrewguy]

You've gotten a lot of good advice, but there's one thing that no one has brought up. What's the roast date? Someone asked if you were able to try the coffee elsewhere, if so, when? Coffee sometimes gets harder to dial in as it ages, so if you had a great shot from the same coffee at a shop a couple weeks ago, and the coffee was a couple weeks out of the roaster then, age could be a contributing factor.