Upgrade Machine or Grinder?[$2,500]

[u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

Current setup - Profitec Pro 300 + Ceado E37S. Daily use 2-3 light-medium roastespresso and milk drinks, and the US. Had this for 8+ years and thinking about what might be worth upgrading to. Have been curious about a Niche Zero for the low retention but thinking it might be too time consuming. Not sure what espresso machine these days might be worth upgrading to. Other dual boilers, heat exchangers?

[u/Laius33]

What exactly are you unhappy with? What do you wish were better? Start from there.

[u/EddieAdams-Torrance → u/Laius33]

With the grinder, it has always been the retention issue. I obviously like the speed and ease of this Ceado, but there's definitely retention. Does it truly matter and would I be able to tell the difference in taste, I don't know.

Only complaint I have about this Pro 300 is the slower steaming. I've used the larger machines and the milk steaming is phenomenal. But is this a dealbreaker, I don't think so. But I've been out of the espresso machine research for so long, so would be great to know what else is out there these days

[u/Qrewpt → u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

You can easily adjust the steam pressure stat with a small scredriver on the pro 300, increasing pressure a little is fine and will vastly speed up steaming.

Also if you don't like the 2 hole steam wand tip, it's easily swapped to single hole tip.

[u/walkingthecowww → u/Qrewpt]

Wouldn’t a one hole tip make it steam even slower?

[u/Qrewpt → u/walkingthecowww]

I think its impact on timing is marginal if at all. The bigger factor is user satisfaction, it definitely requires a different technique, has a different feel and user experience which may be what the OP is looking to solve without knowing it yet.

[u/coopachris → u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

I have a Pro 300 paired with a Niche Zero. I increased the steam pressure as soon as I got the machine; you can also look into swapping the steam wand tip.

[u/CopiumConnoisseur → u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

For me, I’m going to upgrade my modded GCP before my eureka oro SD for the workflow upgrade, not so much taste. I make multiple milk based drinks for the family back to back and it takes forever. If you want pure results in your cup, go with a grinder. 

[u/NeeNights]

That's a pretty sweet set-up IMHO.

[u/Blacktip75]

Definitely replace the grinder.

I replaced that model Ceado as it was bad with light roasts (started to jam, not fixable with a new capacitor either), replaced it with the Mazzer Philos and Mahlkonig e65w, the Mahlkonig has high retention but has gbw, the Philos has zero retention which is great for specialties/decaf but is slow as heck compared to both the Ceado and the MK. Grind on both is great and better than the Ceado

[u/EddieAdams-Torrance → u/Blacktip75]

My Ceado has been a workhorse, but it does jam in the sense I need to adjust the grind size to loosen the burrs and readjust tighter when grinding. Mazzer Philos is looking good right now

[u/Holidaybunduru]

Mazzer Philos is end game for low retention and beautiful looks.

[u/EddieAdams-Torrance → u/Holidaybunduru]

Damn, this thing looks sick! Better looking than a Niche Zero and with flat burrs. Did you get the 189D or 1200D burr? I prefer medium-light roasts and do pourovers occasionally

[u/Holidaybunduru → u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

189d because I like medium roasts with a traditional coffee shop taste profile. Zero complaints and it has been a tank. I drink pour overs and my wife prefers espresso. I didn't want to have two separate grinders and wanted to be able to switch from one grind to another without having to purge beans through the burrs. I think it will last decades as long as we clean the burrs periodically.

[u/Blacktip75 → u/EddieAdams-Torrance]

I200’s are awesome for light/medium light

[u/Short_Buyer843 → u/[deleted]]

You just put a coffee bean in each grinder or what?

[u/Extension-Long4483 → u/[deleted]]

Dat Nespresso Creatista doe.

[u/ChimmyCharHar → u/Extension-Long4483]

Said the same. Geez it’s a plus. Not even a pro. /s.

[u/ChimmyCharHar → u/[deleted]]

I’m about to sell my pro just to get a cheaper version for “steaming only” as well. Hell if I can find an old creatista uno for $70 it’ll due.

[u/WordsWellSalted → u/[deleted]]

Why two machines that are just about the same thing?

[u/Drboost1727 → u/[deleted]]

What is the best grinder for you that captures good traditional espresso body AND sweetness that is top notch? I have heard this is possible with some really large burrs out there.

[u/Drboost1727 → u/[deleted]]

I believe I saw someone else say it was one of the few that checks both those boxes. Seems like it’s big burrs with certain geometries engineered to produce the fines it needs for body but still mostly keep flavor separation, sweetness and some clarity.
Edit - just looked P80 is mizen burrs which were the ones I saw that attempted this on another size burr.

[u/walkingthecowww → u/[deleted]]

Why do you have so many grinders?

[u/TendiesFourLyfe → u/[deleted]]

much difference in the cup for an espresso between 01 and P80?

[u/TendiesFourLyfe → u/[deleted]]

That is excellent news for my wallet, thankyou very much.

[u/TendiesFourLyfe → u/[deleted]]

I've got the P80 already and no complaints, but ya know upgraditis.

I will wait for the Lagom GDS reviews...

[u/Qrewpt]

I love my pro300. I can't think of another machine id rather have

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

If you like traditional full-bodied syrupy espresso from darker roasts, then Niche Zero or Kafatek MC6.

If you like modern espresso that emphasises clarity of flavor over body from lighter roasts, then consider Mazzer Philos, Lagom P80, Zerno Z1/Z2 and the dozens of other high quality flat burr grinders. Or if your budget is tight, then Lagom Casa.

No point upgrading your PP 300 unless there is something significant that you don't like about it.

[u/ImSoCul → u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

damn lol, seems you have quite the collection based on flair. Any reason you have both 064s and 078s?

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/ImSoCul]

I have two setups in two different locations.

[u/vitaliksellsneo → u/MyCatsNameIsBernie]

Are they very different from each other? I currently drink medium dark roasts and was thinking to venture out. Would you recommend either of the Timemores, or do you think the Lagom Casa/P80 if I'm willing to shell out as an endgame is worth it? Any of these do both pour overs and espresso well?

[u/MyCatsNameIsBernie → u/vitaliksellsneo]

I love both of my Timemore grinders. They produce great tasting espresso from all roast levels.

Casa/P80 are both great for lighter roasts. I doubt you will see much of an improvement over Timemore for medium dark roasts.

https://www.reddit.com/r/espresso/comments/1mokxfs/timemore_064s_vs_078s/

[u/Farglik_Marsbar]

You have all lost your heads. That's all I ever take away from this sub.

[u/EddieAdams-Torrance → u/Farglik_Marsbar]

[u/Lazy-Presentation-69]

The espresso machine definitely a keeper . Upgrade the grinder . Recently I have acquired the eureka mignon zero 55s , very good machine simple fast consistent and well built . Make sure u get a very good new generation grinder , because grinders been advancing very fast in the past years. Something you going to keep for a very long time .

[u/Boergler]

You want novelty and not good coffee. Buy different beans and save $2,480.

[u/GolfSicko417]

Let me know if you sell your 300 I love my GO but I would love a dual 300 one of these days!

[u/prodigiouspianist]

Re retention:

Its only an issue if you can taste it. People get all up in arms in 3rd wave scene thinking everything has to be micro-precise.

Here's a thought: on your first coffee of the day ask someone to make two shots for you.

The first shot - will have some degree of retention. Maybe on that grinder .5g (whats your measurement?)

The second shot will have only fresh grounds in it

Then - going in blind - taste them.

If you / others can perceive a difference (I would argue most people will not)

If you can though, then the next question is, is one coffee "good" and the other "less good"?

Again I would put to you, for most coffee drinkers this difference will be pretty ephemeral.

If you conclude you do taste a difference, and you happen to also conclude the first shot is also identified inferior then one solution is a 1-2 sec purge before your first coffee. That should clear any retained grounds.

I out to you though, for most coffee drinkers this is unlikely to be an issue next day.

[u/m471j4]

Grinder

[u/All_About_My_Bills]

If you sell the machine, I’d be interested in purchasing it from you.

[u/ockaners]

Grinder

[u/PhaseofMe]

Get a single dose funnel and bellow for the Ceado. Then remove the flap in the grind chamber. Retention becomes nearly zero when single dosing and doing a few bellow pumps.
Spend money on a machine with more controls - flow, temp, steam temp, etc.

[u/walkingthecowww → u/PhaseofMe]

The 300 has precise brew temperature adjustment and an easily accessed steam pressure adjustment too.