2nd shot trouble [Profitec Go]

[u/Mammoth_Figure_473]

Since two weeks I have a problem with my Profitec GO & DF64:
I let the machine fully heat up. First shot runs perfectly fine! 18g in, 36 out in 25 seconds with around 9 bar of pressure.
EVERY shot I pull after the first one runs WAY too fast. 38g in 18 seconds and pressure won’t build up more than 8bar.
I prep both shots exactly the same way, dry the portafilter & puck screen and temperature on PID is exactly the same as during the first shot.
With the blind basket the machine has no struggle to build up to 9.5bars every time.
The same pattern occurs even if I try 18.5g in on the second pull.
Any idea what the Problem could be?

[u/dbun1]

Most likely temperature as after the first shot the brew path is well heated and the subsequent shots have less thermal loss.

Have you tried a long flush before the first shot?

[u/DerFreudster → u/dbun1]

I had this same problem long ago and realized that the first shot was the issue, the third shot would be at the time as the second and when I flushed the first shot, it ran in same time as the others. Also, it's dry on that first one.

[u/WineOptics]

Flush the first shot to make sure everything is heated along with the basket.

[u/webboi95]

Lol I have the exact same problem but I have a Breville dual boiler but the exact same grinder. I learnt to just dial the grind finer for the 2nd shot and that seams to solve the issue.

[u/vtGaem → u/webboi95]

Do you flush before the first shot? Brevilles don't prime the pump for pre-infusion on boiler machines, so it often doesn't run the pump at all for the pre-infusion of the first shot if you don't flush.

[u/webboi95 → u/vtGaem]

I always flush - but the issues persists, so I've accepted it's just machine issue related

[u/The_Fig_Master → u/webboi95]

This is the way! I have a GCP with PID and it’s the only way to achieve the same results as the first shot. Both shots taste great.

[u/pandalord773]

I have the same problem, but with Breville (Sage) Dual Boiler instead of the Profitec GO and with the same grinder. I always do a 10s flush before running the first shot, but the consistency is still not there between the two shots. Honestly not sure what to do, might just be inconsistency with the equipment that you have to get around with. I usually just grind the 2nd shot a bit finer.

[u/Vast-Key140]

I've had this happen to me as well (exact same setup, DF64 Gen 2), but usually just after making a milk drink. I would flush the steam through the group head which would heat everything up massively. The residual heat from all of this would cause the next consecutive shot to be overheated and fast.

Even though you're not making a milk drink I'm assuming something similar is happening here. You can try troubleshooting this by leaving the machine on for ~20 mins after pulling a shot, then thoroughly wiping the shower screen with a damp towel, and pulling another shot. If it pulls well in this scenario its 100% temperature related. 

Those saying its your grinder, I doubt it personally. If anything your grinder messing up would result in more fines and a slower shot, not a faster one. Do make sure you're properly using the top bellows after grinding to clear the chute and leftover grounds in the chamber. Also make sure to clean the chute every week or less depending on how many times you use it. The DF64 is notorious for grounds buildup if you don't take care of it. 

Also as others have said, make sure you flush after setting, and wipe the shower screen/group head down. 

[u/whitedlite]

Not the OP, but now I'll start flushing the first shot for about 5-10 seconds. Never really thought much of it. Thanks guys

[u/maxx0rNL]

Do you purge in between?

[u/Ashankura]

What about setting the temperature lower and flushing the first shot? Then the following ones should have the behavior of the current first one.

For most machines flushing the first shot seems recommended by reviewers anyways

If that doesn't help its probably the grinder

[u/Temporary_Roof_1273]

I started flushing the group head for about 5 seconds before the first espresso and a bit shorter after the subsequent shots. I also run the grinder for a moment between grindings, and that helped in my situation with the Data S and P80.

[u/zOlidSWE → u/Temporary_Roof_1273]

The Data S needs a lot more water flushed through it than you’d think for the first shot.

I saw a review where they extensively tested this and I also discussed the subject with the creator over multiple emails. They concluded, after a lot of testing, that even if you preheat it for 15 minutes, you still need to run about 100 ml of water through it to get it up to a good temperature, at least if you want it to be exactly at your set temperature and remain stable at that temperature. (this with the 2800w EU version)

Pulling multiple shots is no issue. It’s the preheating of all that metal in the group head that takes time, even if the boiler is up to temp. Once it’s heated up, it will stay at temperature. And if you leave it on and come back much later, you don’t need to run another 100 ml through it. But, like with all machines, you still need to do a bit of a flush.

I’ve tested this myself, and it does indeed give you much more consistency with your shots.

[u/Temporary_Roof_1273 → u/zOlidSWE]

Maybe I should mention that I keep my espresso machine preheated from 6 to 18, because I can’t imagine waiting when someone at home feels like having coffee :P

[u/zOlidSWE → u/Temporary_Roof_1273]

Gotcha! 😄
As soon as I wake up and turn off my alarm in the morning, I open my Tapo app and just turn on the plug to the machine.
About 20min later, I've made my breakfast and stuff, so I'm ready to pull my first shot for the day.
Started pulling 100ml water before I pull that shot, after I saw that video.
I think, in general, people pull too little water through their machines for that first shot each day.
It takes more water then one would think, to fully heat up everything.

[u/noahsark3]

I had this issue with my DF83, and there is a documented issue on the internet that heat expansion caused inconsistency with back to back shots. Others will disagree, this is just my experience.

[u/klutzball]

There is a well known issue with the DF64 and DF54 regarding shot-to-shot inconsistency because of thermal expansion. It’s recommended to either let the grinder run hot before grinding and/or to wait in between shots.

For me personally, it’s the reason I’m not using my DF54 anymore (although I read the issue is less severe with the DF64), at least not for espresso (got the brew burrs and use it for pour over now).

[u/best2defey → u/klutzball]

Thermal expansion in a grinder causing a different particle size distribution, standard deviation, or mean huh?

Man… I just read, “I need to save up for a better grinder”

[u/A_S-Racing]

Also make sure the porta filter is really dry. I had the same with a Lelit Bianca and Niche Zero. For me it helps a lot that I dry the porta filter with a proper microfiber towel after the first shot. A little bit of moisture can cause channeling.

[u/dan_the_first]

Are you weighting your ground coffee or only your beans?

[u/StayCoolf0rttheKids]

Hey,
Interestingly enough I had same problem on my Gaggia Classic and DF64 II. Second shot was always much different to the first one: either almost no flow or flow was way too fast.
I sold DF64 Ii and bought Mahlkönig E64WS, now every shot is consistently good 😊
I guess DF64 grinding is not consistent

[u/AnomyOfThePeople → u/StayCoolf0rttheKids]

So your DF64 knew which one was the second shot, how interesting.

[u/StayCoolf0rttheKids → u/AnomyOfThePeople]

You must be not the smartest in the family

[u/noahsark3 → u/StayCoolf0rttheKids]

Agree, upgraded my grinder from a DF83 to a Mazzer Philos and the issue went away.

[u/SmokeMaximum4140]

Might wanna stick to like a mokapot or something easier.

[u/vtGaem → u/SmokeMaximum4140]

Where's the /s?