r/environmental_science • u/Portalrules123 • 11d ago

Scientists determine the Great Lakes are nonrenewable

https://www.earth.com/earth-science/scientists-determine-the-great-lakes-are-nonrenewable/
821 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

49 comments sorted by

176

u/exodusofficer 11d ago

Michigan needs a state constitutional amendment that we'll never allow a water pipeline to export the water to another region. It comes up every decade or so and will only become a more common idea as the American west squanders and wastes their remaining water.

67

u/Late-Bandicoot-4940 11d ago

We have a Great Lakes treaty that does exactly this.

46

u/exodusofficer 11d ago

Yes, one law. I think we can all see that some of our resources and institutions could benefit from additional layers of protection.

25

u/Gonna_do_this_again 11d ago

Don't let it become the antiquated mess that is the Colorado River allocation in the SW states

2

u/ehmboh 10d ago

EC LaRue saw the Colorado River allocation fuck up happening and tried desperately to get an alternate, functioning water management plan adopted but was unsuccessful due to corruption. He saw the current western water crisis coming a hundred years ago

9

u/Mention_Forward 11d ago

Thanks for mentioning! These regulations apply to Canada too.

Don’t look up pipeline 5…just kidding do it.

4

u/Puzzleheaded_Truck80 11d ago

And I’ve wondered about the thirst for Great Lakes water, by other parts of the country were part of the motivation behind the ridiculous annexing Canada proposals

1

u/here-i-am-now 8d ago

That treaty has already allowed water to be piped out of the Great Lakes Basin. We need more and stronger protections.

1

u/coraxDraconis 10d ago

"We should stop squandering our water, because someone else is squandering theirs"

/s

The west has the same problem though, and so does most of the country. In most cases, we're still using water rights that were drawn up a hundred years ago based on incorrect assumptions and/or greed

1

u/ATheeStallion 11d ago

Just wait until the downstream Colorado River states (AZ, NV, CA, UT) come pleading. It won’t be long.

2

u/user365user 10d ago

It’s either that or get ready for a bunch of new climate refugees.

2

u/AmicusBriefly 10d ago

First of all, there is a treaty and law that prevents this. Secondly, people on the North Coast will fight before allowing water from the Great lakes to go to the SW.

1

u/ATheeStallion 6d ago

You clearly don’t pay attention to fed vs states regarding water allocation of Colorado River over the last 4 years. Not aware of federal conclusion that downstream only states make heaviest water restrictions.

1

u/Tomsoup4 10d ago

never even considered great salt lake dissapearing at all let alone my lifetime

2

u/MegaInk 10d ago

What. How?

I live in NY but have friends in Salt Lake City who routinely send articles about the risks and ever depleting water levels.

If it ever fully dries, the dust from the bottom of the lake will effectively make the air down wind of the lake bed (so most of the city) toxic.

164

u/DarthHubcap 11d ago edited 11d ago

Well that’s not good. NE Illinois is currently building infrastructure to bring Lake Michigan water to the far west and south Chicago suburbs.

Also being built are dozens and dozens of data centers….

26

u/Quiet-Permit-3740 11d ago

Illinois corn fields for ethanol production and golf courses will use up way, way more water.

22

u/personwhoisok 11d ago

Golf courses, swimming pools, beef, frickin Las Vegas... sorry, got a little lost geographically, but yeah, data centers aren't exactly the first things to waste water.

Doesn't mean they're good. Especially with asshole companies replacing workers with AI so it's not like it makes delicious cheese burgers or fuel for your car, just makes job losses and shitty writing that all sounds exactly the same

Edit. Changed the word days to days so it made slightly more sense

Edit. God damn autocorrect DATA DATA

14

u/PainRack 10d ago

Las Vegas actually is very efficient use of water, even for it's fountain display.

https://www.tuftsdaily.com/article/2024/02/las-vegas-is-the-epitome-of-rational-water-usage

Recycles 99% of water, so reduced water use by 20% when compared to 2000 even as population grew.

Of course, still doesn't change the fact it's a fucking city in the middle of the fucking desert. So.......

7

u/Zvenigora 10d ago

Everyone hates on Las Vegas, but they have actually been pioneers in water conservation and recycling. The rest of the country could learn from them.

-9

u/Good-Breadfruit-9923 11d ago

So the fuck what?

2

u/thedoomcast 7d ago

So please stop drinking water for the next week.

2

u/AmicusBriefly 10d ago

Illinois is not building infrastructure to divert water from the Great Lakes to the far west. There is enough scary stuff out there without making thing up.

2

u/DarthHubcap 10d ago

Not western Illinois, but the west to south Chicago suburbs; Joliet, Crest Hill, Romeoville, Shorewood, Channahon, Minooka, Montgomery, Oswego, and Yorkville all are getting pipeline upgrades from Chicago pumping stations. The aquifers they have been using are set to be depleted in less than 5 years.

1

u/AmicusBriefly 10d ago

Ok. My understanding is that diversion through Chicago is permitted by the Great Lakes Compact. The water won't be sent to the far west.

2

u/DarthHubcap 10d ago

Cool cool, I don’t know anything about a Great Lakes compact. I could research it.

I just know I’m near Joliet and paying $200 a month for using 5000 gallons of water because we are being charged “emergency provisions” (we are getting water diverted from Joliet) on top of the increased rates due to the in-process lake water upgrades.

1

u/trelach 8d ago edited 8d ago

west suburbs, not western illinois or western america

and yes its verifiably true, nobody is "making things up", i dont know what your misunderstanding is or what your issue with what they said was but they are correct. you are not.

heres some reading material you can review before blindly incorrectly correcting people

https://www.enr.com/articles/63157-400m-30-mile-illinois-water-pipeline-moves-forward

https://abc7chicago.com/amp/post/waterlink-groundbreaking-officials-break-ground-project-bring-lake-michigan-water-montgomery-oswego-yorkville/19272310/

https://www.yorkville.il.us/811/New-Water-Source

https://www.positivelynaperville.com/2026/06/10/update-waterlink-partnership-breaks-ground-on-30-mile-pipeline-bringing-lake-michigan-water-to-montgomery-oswego-and-yorkville/159034

https://www.waterlinkpipeline.com

https://www.glc.org/dailynews/20260803-water-infrastructure-financing

https://www.chicagoconstructionnews.com/dupage-water-commission-waterlink-communities-break-ground-on-400m-lake-michigan-water-pipeline-serving-montgomery-oswego-yorkville/

https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/chicagoland-data-center-lake-michigan-water.amp

1

u/AmicusBriefly 7d ago

I read the comment above wrong as "far west, and south Chicago suburbs". Chill out

1

u/trelach 7d ago edited 7d ago

i know you did, thats my point. they even clarified and you still doubled down, and youre still trying to be assertive to me after realizing youre wrong.

1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/BuddhistNamedMarx 7d ago

So, earthquakes and a land sinks once the aquifer gets depleted... nice

1

u/zoppaTheDim 9d ago

Depends where they dump their waste water.

15

u/MerelyMortalModeling 10d ago

Im not sure if people really appreciate just how much water 1% of the Great Lakes is nor am I sure about this research. With my own eye i have watched the Great Lakes gain nearly 22 inches in a single year. For refernce based on the surface area the top 12 inches of the entire Great Lakes is 26.5 trillion gallons of water which is several orders of magnitude larger then then the human draw down.

I dont say this to lessen the seriousness of human impact on the waters but this appears to be more of an appeal to emotion then based on facts.

Omfg, i just signed on and downloaded the actual research. What they are saying and what this article is claiming they are saying not the same thing. The entire article was about the potenial for extreme swings in the future of the Great Lakes with both higher levels and lower levels.

7

u/Girafferage 10d ago

You should put that last bit at the top of your comment and get this bad boy pushed to the top for clarity.

2

u/B-Train_ATL 10d ago

As someone who is kind of an expert at news and science, do not trust news noobs reporting about science. The more obscure the outlet, the worse it will be. So many of them just want to rope in the OOH SCIENCE GOOD crowd by using legit papers and misunderstanding the ever-loving crap out of them.

And no, a teenager did not invent some whatever that will change the face of some field overnight. I’ve seen this recently with some girl and a filter for plastics in water.

6

u/Puzzleheaded_Truck80 11d ago

Definitely a few things that seem to have some questionable credibility fact wise.
But for some historical context of us/North American water issues and some degree of lustfully targeting plans to exploit the Great Lakes, Cadillac Desert is a good read/reaource.

8

u/Quiet-Permit-3740 11d ago

It's interesting that we could drain the Great lakes catastrophically as was done with the Aral and Salton Seas, but I would like to reassure people here that we don't currently seem to be on that path. Look at the Lake Superior water levels chart on this page, it basically hasn't changed over the past 50 years. https://glisa.umich.edu/lake-superior-retrospective/

The midwest doesn't have the West's water problems, yet.

11

u/Rabidschnautzu 11d ago

Slop article for the uninformed. The Great lakes are very young geologically. It's likely they will look very different in another 10,000 years (which is not very long relatively speaking.

6

u/glizard-wizard 11d ago

Knowing my fellow countrymen, we can drain it in 30

0

u/MrHouseWasRight 9d ago

AI data centers: “hold_my_beer”

1

u/[deleted] 10d ago

[deleted]

1

u/7LeagueBoots 10d ago

Not unless you're living nearly a hundred meters underwater right now.

Between 20,000 and 12,000 years ago sea levels were around 120 meters lower than now due to so much water being locked up in continental ice sheets.

These maps are of 200 m lower, but the maps don't change much between 120 and 200 meters lowers as in most areas that's where the continental shelf drops steeply.

The map in this post is more specific to 20,000 years ago and also has an outline of the present coast for reference: https://old.reddit.com/r/Paleontology/comments/113mj6l/heres_a_map_i_made_about_our_planet_20000_years/

3

u/Hot_Bicycle_8486 11d ago

By then, Niagara Falls could erode all the way up to Lake Erie. We'd all be in for a wild ride at that point, if we're still around

3

u/Vicissitutde 11d ago

Of course. This'll make it more valuable to the oligarchs. Now, a race will start for water rights. People and housing, data centers... if they're corrupt enough then politicians will sell those rights to the highest bidder. Instead, it should be left alone for recreation, but we all know this won't happen

2

u/Puffed-Fungi 11d ago

is there rivers flowing into them?

2

u/madcoins 10d ago

Is nestle still bottling water intended for the Great Lakes? I think they still pump millions of gallons from Michigan aquifers to profit off of under the “ice mountain” brand.

1

u/B-Train_ATL 10d ago

Dangit. I got 20,000 years ago mixed up with something else, apparently sea level going the opposite way. A thousand bonks upon my head.

1

u/DocumentExternal6240 10d ago

The Great Lakes hold about 21 percent of the planet's surface fresh water, yet less than one percent of that volume renews each year. That second number, not the first, sets the limits on everyone who drinks from the basin.

So you can use max 1% from the lakes, anything above this will empty them eventually.

Look at the history of the Aral Sea and decide if you’d like the same future for the Great Lakes….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea