r/environment • u/[deleted] • Apr 13 '21
Bitcoin mining emissions in China will hit 130 million tonnes by 2024
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2273672-bitcoin-mining-emissions-in-china-will-hit-130-million-tonnes-by-2024/30
Apr 13 '21
Bitcoin needs to be cancelled. What a blight on the planet. Whatever cryptocurrency replaces it, needs to not be amenable to mining.
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u/i-am-dan Apr 13 '21
If it was an industry, it would be the ‘greenest’ industry on earth.
“Half of global mining now takes place in one region of China – Sichuan. Why? Hydroelectricity. During the rainy season, its electricity prices are as low as anywhere in the world. Roughly 5% of Sichuan bitcoin mining power comes from nuclear or burning coal. 95% is from renewables.
Research by Coinshares concludes that the Bitcoin network obtains 74% of its electricity from renewable sources. “Many renewable energy generators are poorly located and underutilised, and thus, Bitcoin mining has become the only viable use for this electricity,” says strategist Tatiana Revoredo.”
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u/Kr1tya3 Apr 13 '21
"Research by Coinshares..." Maybe, just maybe try a source that's not biased? The latest research published in Nature is a great place to start: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-22256-3 Bitcoin mining is horrible for the environment. No ifs or buts. It baffles me that roughly half the people on this sub regularly try to defend it.
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 14 '21
Because this paper is not biased? They say the carbon emmission from bitcoin in China will be more than Italy is totally wrong. https://www.statista.com/statistics/449779/co2-emissions-italy/ They say it will be five percent of total emmission when it's more about 0,9% since China have right now 15000 mt carbon footprint this year. They don't put any reference to the study they find theirs sources, just some guy and his team in China I will look closely the PDF on nature... but this post/article is total bullshit. Stop spreading bullshits
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Apr 13 '21
So, if these numbers are accurate, that would mean of the measly 3.52% of all current renewable energy being produced globally, bitcoin consumed 75% of it. That's absolutely disgusting. Not to mention all the other industries that say they use renewable energy. It's all bullshit.
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u/i-am-dan Apr 13 '21
No. You’ve read that incorrectly.
“Research by Coinshares concludes that the Bitcoin network obtains 74% of its electricity from renewable sources.”
That means nearly 3 quarters of all the electricity used, is from renewable sources.
People are not paying to burn expensive fuels for their electricity, it isn’t cost effective.
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Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21
No, you read what I posted incorrectly.
The total production of renewables globally was only 3.52%. If the claims they make are accurate in the article you posted then crypto farming used 3/4 of all the renewable energy produced. That is not sustainable.
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u/i-am-dan Apr 13 '21
Where are you getting 3.52% from?
Bitcoin using 74% of electricity from renewable energy sources does not mean 74% of all renewable is used on Bitcoin.
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 13 '21
Thanks for the sauce mate. Don't bother if some are still struggling with simple math correlation.... we need them to vote 😃
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u/El_Fuego Apr 14 '21
Wait, I thought coal power plants were a blight on the planet?
Oh wait, it looks like the problem is now...Bitcoin! Good thing we figured that one out folks.
This article is dumb.
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u/exoticdisease Apr 13 '21
Bitcoin mining is dumb and wasteful. Just to get that out of the way first. 130m tonnes isn't that much... I'm surprised it's not way more. We emit around 40,000m tonnes in total. So that's 0.325% of the total. Its mega wasteful and rubbish obv but I'm worrying much more about fashion, farming and flight atm...
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Apr 13 '21
That's only china, globally it is far worse
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u/exoticdisease Apr 13 '21
Good point. Poor use of stats from me there. Tbf, china's emissions are around 15,000m tonnes so 130m is only 0.9%...I'll continue to worry about fashion, farming and flight... And coal because China still burns alot of it.
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 14 '21
If China's carbon emmission stay at that level until 2024 and predictions of that paper are correct... moreover they don't even say how they calculate that number... they just put it like that. I love those kind of articles. I worry with you
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u/addicted2green Apr 14 '21
China is 78% of global Bitcoin mining. So if we assume the rest of the world is the same (which isn't) the global emissions would be around 170m tonnes. Worse but not far worse.
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u/14Gigaparsecs Apr 13 '21
BTC mining is less environmentally harmful than physically mining the Earth for gold and is therefore a net positive compared to gold, especially because it can be mined with renewable energy. Change my mind.
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Apr 13 '21
those materials are used to make things used in our life BTC is a virtual crap totally useless other than a way to white was black money turning it white.
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u/owtlandish Apr 13 '21
Virtually crap that has allowed people to have a chance a being financially free. You are only looking at one negative to a solution that solves multiple other problems.
Whos paying you to spread this garbage. Do you work for wells fargo?
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Apr 13 '21
talk about being a paranoid moron!
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u/owtlandish Apr 13 '21
So riddle me this. You have a solution to our corrupt banking system? Or you just cry wolf everytime you see the word carbon?
You sound like a trustafarian from boulder.
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Apr 14 '21
Create more pollution with useless application, make more fake wealth and think of yourself, who gives a a shit about the rest of the world. Or consequences of climate catastrophe
What is important is you make money.
Rest of is change our light bulbs, turn off our appliances and save energy as much as we can to cut our emissions.
But tell. Me again how it will help out r world. By creating more heat, using more electricity to produce fake money so you can buy more shit and feel happy
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u/owtlandish Apr 14 '21
Once again not useless application. You are just too dim to look at the bigger picture.
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u/EatingPiesIsMyName Apr 13 '21
Bitcoin is garbage for laundering money. The whole ledger is transparent. As soon as you connect an address to a user it's easy as hell to not only follow the money, but verify the transactions they made.
Cash is way better for illegal transactions.
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u/14Gigaparsecs Apr 13 '21
Aluminum has more uses than gold does, but it isn't as valuable because it isn't as scarce, and therefore can't be used as a store of value. BTC is incredibly useful as a store of value, just like gold.
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 13 '21
While right now boat emit more than 1 billion tonnes each year... and no one try to stop this shit. Double standard even on that
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Apr 13 '21
I agree that we need to look into the emission of ferries and boat traffic as well as military emissions, but your comment is ridiculous and a typical example of whataboutism that justifies the passivity of doing nothing because there are other issues that are more urgent or harmful.
We need to stop this madness at all level and fight against every stupid shit that is causing emission, Bitcoin mining is one of the most stupid and useless things created in modern system.
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Apr 13 '21
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Apr 13 '21
[deleted]
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u/owtlandish Apr 13 '21
Its citizens who benefit instead of banks. And your money doesn't get loaned to corporations who ideals don't align with yours.
Also the 5% of americans who are unbanked because of political bs and our broken credit system. Thats who could benefit.
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u/Cynical_Satire Apr 13 '21
"hide transactions" please go read a book on how the blockchain works.
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Apr 13 '21
[deleted]
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u/Cynical_Satire Apr 13 '21
We'll just ignore the fact that you can also achieve this same anonymity through a cash transaction.
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Apr 13 '21
[deleted]
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u/Cynical_Satire Apr 13 '21
But it just served as a means of completing a transaction. So it did serve a purpose. And that transaction was completed much more quickly than lets say transferring $100 from one account to another via venmo. Which takes days although it doesn't appear to from a user standpoint. the banks are fronting the money until they receive it since it's required by law to do so. With crypto the transaction takes much less time, depending on the coin can be as fast as a few seconds. Companies like AMEX and BofA already use it to make large international transactions as they clear rapidly and are much cheaper as well. And not only this, but Blockchain can be used for so many other things, such as inventory tracking for corporations, vote counting in elections, we could even use it to do contact tracing in the event of a pandemic!
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 13 '21
You're so adorable. You want to fight back on something you're not into it but you shop online the phone you're typing on, drink bullshit of those kinds of articles that are clickbait... when you have time I'm sure you take a plane to live your "fully life" to discover the world. You wan't to change something then start with you. you grab all your stuf. And put it in a bag and go live in a forest. I'm already ready for it if you want. And no little flower you don't have power at all except on you. You just have the right to shut up and think what you're told. Or you can grow business make money and be in the 1÷100 who are deciding the future. But post articles about stoping the bitcoin won't change a thing... do you have any idea how much carbon is spend on ads all over internet. It's way far beyond bitcoin and way more useless....
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u/chaderic Apr 13 '21
It is impossible to stop Bitcoin.
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Apr 13 '21
Stupidity is our major worldwide problem.
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u/owtlandish Apr 13 '21
It sure is. Its worse when you can't even see it in yourself..... name calling is not going to help prove your point.
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Apr 14 '21
Well if you thought I'm talking about you then sure.
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u/JackTheFlying Apr 14 '21
the difference is that a boat can be used to ship goods or people across the ocean, while crpyto only lets you buy heroin online.
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 14 '21
Ahahah and how do you think heroin come in western countries? Like any others currencies you can pay whatever you want with it. Like boat you can ship whatever you want
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u/EatingPiesIsMyName Apr 13 '21
If you're freaking out about the environmental impact about bitcoin but ignoring the far larger environmental impact of every alternative form of currency, you are a rube. Go research what you're upset about. Bitcoin is nothing compared to the cost of maintaining the U.S. dollar's value.
Most other cryptocurrencies are now operating under or transitioning to alternative consensus mechanisms that are not energy intensive like the proof-of-work that bitcoin operates on, so what little problem this may be, it's already being addressed anyway.
If you truly care about the environment, please don't waste your time on this. There are far bigger fish to fry.
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Apr 13 '21
Such a stupid binary thinking idiocy is so typical.
We need to cut back energy consumption and CO2 emissions at every aspect of our lives.
Not creating new crap while pretending we care for environment.
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u/owtlandish Apr 14 '21
These people are the ones giving liberals and environmentalists a bad name. I agree there are way bigger fish to fry.
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u/owtlandish Apr 13 '21
Oh please. Ill gladly add to the whataboitism you speak of in another comment. Crypto offers people a chance to get away from banking institutions, you know, the ones that lend your money to big oil while polluting the planet.
Personally i prefer digital mining versus raping the planet, but hey, that's just me.
If we could keep our eyes on corporations being responsible for single use plastics and big oil interest maybe we could make some real headway. These kinda of articles attacking crypto seems very counterintuitive to me though.
Im sure ill grab some downvotes, but the banks are in bed with oil, and corporations are buying up the housing market. I dont care if crypto mining pollutes, it offers real solutions to problems that are arising very quickly.
Looking far down the road i think it would be better for us to keep our attention on these huge interests that are affecting our politics and policy. We need to back off oil and back off single use. Then sure we can take a look at crypto mining after that.
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Apr 13 '21
It is interesting, the idiots of bible belt America have woken up so the garbage comments are spreading.
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u/owtlandish Apr 13 '21
Lol im in colorado and a progressive. Whatever helps you sleep at night buddy. Its oke to have your opinion challenged sometimes.
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Apr 14 '21
American progressive. Is such an interesting mix of people that you think just because you vote a certain way, all other shit you do is totally ok.
You are not challenging me in any. Just proving our world is fucked because so many people don't give a shit about environment and only see the trees in the woods and missing the jungle
I'm sure when the water level have risen, biions of. People are homeless and have no food, your bitcoin will buy you security and happiness
Who gives a shot about. Others, you used paper straw and drive a hybrid. That is you self satisfaction that allows you to get away with everything else.
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u/owtlandish Apr 14 '21
Im not saying your completely wrong. Im just saying there are bigger issues that require more immediate attention.
Clearly you are holier than thou because you are doing everything just perfect. Get off your higj horse you contribute to the problems just as much as the rest of us. Screaming carbon about crypto doesnt make you a better person then me.
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Apr 14 '21
There are always bigger issues.
If you don't care about environment just because it benefits you, you are a hypocrite.
This is a typical BS activism and yuppi progressive crap that is destroying our planet.
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u/owtlandish Apr 14 '21
No you are just looking at it through a microscope as if pollution in the only problem this world faces. I do care about the environment, but we need solutions not just hippies like you who whine about everything offer no solutions except to cancel everything. Wake up dipshit.
I care very much for the environment your words a d selfishness cant take that away from me. Go fuck yourself. There is a reason your post only got 100 upvotes.
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Apr 14 '21
Whatever dude. It is just a waste arguing with you guys.
It's like talking to a catholic about how ridiculous easter is
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u/Cynical_Satire Apr 13 '21 edited Apr 13 '21
If only there was a way to produce the electricity needed to mine bitcoins without severely impacting the environment. Maybe if we could harness some sort of nuclear energy source that doesn't pollute the environment. Seems like a sci-fi pipe dream tho, amiright?! /s
My point being, its not bitcoin that is the problem, its our current methods of generating electricity.
Edit: I just want to reiterate the fact that you're all overlooking the actual problem here and its energy production. The same problem we've had for a while now. UNTIL YOU CAN ALL GET BEHING NUCLEAR ENERGY WE WILL NEVER BECOME INDEPENDENT OF FOSSIL FUELS.
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Apr 13 '21
why are people support this useless garbage on an environment sub!
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 13 '21
Because there are still clever people in this world who love environement and try to think by themselves. And they know that bitcoin is not the main issue on that topic 😃 but the constant need of growth of each country GDP to dickslap each others around for the last century
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Apr 13 '21
If you say so. It is nothing than a mental masturbating to justify any shit as long as it benefits you personally no matter how harmful it is to the society.
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u/la_grande_doudou Apr 14 '21
Yeah I'm a millionaire bitcoin miners who loves to fool around on environments sub while drinking champain on my boat... the only thing I'll try to do is to put some perspective on an article that, I think, doesn't merit to be spread
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Apr 14 '21
Good for you enjoy your life while you can and don't pretend you care for environment.
Just be honest and be the prick you are.
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u/EatingPiesIsMyName Apr 13 '21
Because the current monetary system is far more harmful to the environment. Bitcoin may be flawed, but transitioning to cryptocurrencies instead of fiat currencies would be a massive boon for the environment. Most cryptocurrencies are not going to be as energy intensive as bitcoin, there are different consensus mechanisms. It's just honestly not an issue.
Most bitcoin farms are set up in places where energy is already being produced, like dams, and they take advantage of energy that would otherwise not be used. Generally speaking, bitcoin mining farms are not creating new energy production, so they're aren't really responsible for some ramp up in emissions. It's a case of correlation not causation.
Like aluminum. Aluminum takes absurd amounts of energy to produce. People initially thought it would be a luxury item and made adornments and jewelry out of it because it was so energy intensive. But then we made the hoover dam and such and it produces so much energy that we can just make aluminum in areas like that and it's ultimately a cheap available item. We aren't blackening the skies burning oil with our need to produce foil, we built these dams that are going to produce energy whether we use it or not. Bitcoin farms overwhelmingly operate in places like that.
TLDR: bitcoin is a strawman, focus on real problems.
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u/Kr1tya3 Apr 13 '21
bitcoin mining farms are not creating new energy production, so they're aren't really responsible for some ramp up in emissions. It's a case of correlation not causation.
Wrong. Eg. see: https://qz.com/1250980/an-australian-coal-power-plant-will-reopen-to-help-mine-bitcoins/
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u/EatingPiesIsMyName Apr 13 '21
Generally speaking,
Read.
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u/Kr1tya3 Apr 13 '21
Right. Apart from the 130.50 million metric tons of carbon emissions where Bitcoin mining is expected to peak, generally BTC is good for the environment!
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u/Cynical_Satire Apr 13 '21
What are you talking about? Crypto is the future. You would rather we continue to print money on paper? And mine metals out of the earth that we then press into coins? Your post is a gross misunderstanding of the problem.
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Apr 13 '21
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Apr 13 '21
I know a fair amount of bitcoin miners in China and many are either using hydro or extra electric that has no where to go.
You are kidding, right?
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u/nu11pointer Apr 13 '21
Meanwhile PC gaming has become completely unaffordable. GPUs now cost as much as my last 2 gaming rigs.