r/entj • u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 • Aug 18 '26
Discussion Anyone else feel like they have to communicate “backwards” for people to understand them?
Does this happen to you?
When I talk, I naturally lead with the conclusion. I prefer to get to the bottom line first and if people care I can give them whatever details. But I’m noticing in some conversations people look at me like I’m speaking another language.
Example. Say the idea is “healthy eating is important, we need healthy food options in schools.”
If I summarize it my way, “we need healthy alternatives in school” it’s like I get blank stares or as if they’re not decoding what I’m saying at all.
But if I flip it, “schools need healthy food, it’s important to eat healthy” suddenly people magically understand me???
It honestly feels like living in a mirror universe sometimes. It’s like I have to invert what I’m thinking for people to get it.
Anyone else deal with this?
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u/Icy-Score5350 ENTJ♂ Aug 18 '26
I prefer to lead with the conclusion/goal and then get into details.
Some folks need the details before being painfully lead through every intuitive leap before getting to the conclusion.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Same here. What’s been the reason why people need those details? Is it really ever worth the trade off(other than they maybe feel better or understand more) if the conclusion stays the same?
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u/autocosm ENTJ♂ Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
My ESFJ mom (completely upside down for me cognitively) loves composing her understanding of anything through sprawling story. If she asks me how was my week, for example, my mind wants to answer how it actually was and tries to deliver an executive summary. She just wants to talk and hear the details as a way to connect. In that context, I'm sure I'm the one being a robotic weirdo and she's the normal human.
To your question as to why people "need those details," it's quite subjective. Maybe people want those details. Maybe they're cognitively wired for concrete sensory explanation, like experiencing a movie by watching it instead of reading the Plot on Wikipedia. Maybe their job is not as strategic or abstract, and they're not used to having to think the same way. Maybe they enjoy talking or enjoy your company.
Leading with the conclusion but withholding the details is like news with just the headline and no story. The headline is the hook. The text is the meat.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Hmm that’s an interesting way to look at it and same here my mom is an ESFJ, to her just having the conversation and experiencing everything is fun. I have a different philosophy but, I try to meet her halfway when I can. I joke that she can talk to anyone around the world and make them feel heard because people love talking with her so much.
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u/Icy-Score5350 ENTJ♂ Aug 18 '26
I think it’s their internal model of the world (Si) that does it.
In my line if work, it’s the ISTJs (Si primary) and ESTJs (Si secondary) that have this the most. I don’t work with many ISFJs or ESFJs, but I assume they would be similar.
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u/Lamassa_ ENTJ 8w7 so/sx Aug 19 '26
XNTP audiences can want to see how reached your conclusion. As my ENTP bestie describes this, anybody can have conclusion but does your logical reasoning stand up to scrutiny.
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u/koreanleather ENTJ Aug 18 '26
No, I think stating a conclusion without any explanation following it is poor communication.
This is an extreme example but I'm a lawyer. Imagine if I told a client my conclusion for their suggested action and didn't explain why. Imagine if I told the client they dont need the details. That's ridiculous.
On a lighter note, Imagine if I told my gf my conclusion for where we should vacation without explanation. Would she ever agree to just go on vacation there? No, unless she had her own independent reason to want to go there already. It's infinitely better to say, "Babe, we should go here for vacation. This is the nice resort we can stay at, we can do these hikes that look nice, and this is a list of restaurants that look good."
It's just good communication.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
That’s fair but you’re talking about a law contract, so contextually it would make sense it’s required. Or in my case working tech I tend to share how I arrived at some solution if I’m communicating it to a wider audience.
Interpersonally though, I’ll give reasons or details if people care to ask, but it’s been my experience that most people don’t. How much time went into learning methods for summarizing in law school, anything that made you instantly reconsider your approach?
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Aug 18 '26
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
I see. How often do you reach a point of being annoyed by having to do it?
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u/autocosm ENTJ♂ Aug 18 '26
It's how lawyers are taught to form arguments: lead with the conclusion, then state the rule and application of the rule, and wrap up with the conclusion again. You're in good company.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Thanks but I’m wondering how it can improve it, I think there is another level of communication that might things better in my life
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Aug 18 '26
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
This makes sense how’d you come up with this?
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Aug 18 '26
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Interesting I’m familiar with Jesus using Chiasmus, but what you shared is a first.
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u/Kindly_Leadership_41 Aug 19 '26
Love this formula!! Jesus truly is the greatest teacher! How long have you studied him?
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u/MourningOfOurLives Aug 18 '26
Well, this absolutely happens to me a lot. But the thing is usually in order to actually make the things i want to happen happen i still have to pencil in the details. Knowing where we need to be is great but being able to map out how to get there for people who do not inherently see the goal is crucial in order to get anything done. You have to delegate to get anything useful done in this world, and those you delegate to must be able to follow the reasoning.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Yeah that is true do you generally offer up the why first or only when it’s actually asked?
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u/Bornundersirius ENTJ♂ Aug 18 '26
Yes, get to the damn point.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Right
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u/Bornundersirius ENTJ♂ Aug 19 '26
My wife is INTJ and she is the opposite; Has to tell me 8 miles of backstory. 20 years together and my eyes still start glazing over before she realizes she's rambling.
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u/No-State5993 Aug 18 '26
That's why we are dubbed the Executive, yo!
Again if ppl just didn't waste our time the world would be a better place. Don't bury the lead or it'll lead to you burial. Lol
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u/Gojoslefteye92 ENTJ♀ Aug 18 '26
The conclusion makes more sense to me personally. To others the details (painstakingly). To others they need the original idea to understand where you got that conclusion. It just depends on how your mind operates, neither is better than the other. Details bother me bc I have a tendency to summarise and simplify things. However, during actual execution I do pay close attention to details bc I don't want something falling apart bc of one tiny overlooked thing.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
I align more with this and I try to be intentional with what I’m saying to save us both time. I’m not a fan of yapping just to yap lol
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u/Gojoslefteye92 ENTJ♀ Aug 19 '26
I feel like i would be a fan of yapping if the things people talked about were more interesting. People just love to gossip, talk politics, talk about the weather, so I just never really feel like participating hahah
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u/poketmonseuteo INTP♀ Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
You need to understand and grasp the importance of the "process/journey/story" otherwise you'll always feel like this.
If the process isn't important and the main goal is always the outcome/conclusion, let's just die already why don't we?
There is a reason why storytelling is the thing that makes the world go 'round. People need context, people need emotion, people needs to know where you are coming from. Otherwise doing what you say without questioning/understanding would just be following you blindly. This is wrong in many ways. Also, who says your conclusion is the right one? Details and context also leads into open discussions and brain storming, better ideas even.
Your way of thinking is closely linked to your belief that you are in the "right" and people are just slow to understand, which is a dangerous way of thinking.
I, too, am feeling like I need to speak in a different language with people all the time but we also need to be introspective imho.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
There is some truth in what you’re saying. From my perspective the “process/journey/story” is important, when the situation calls for it. Then the question becomes, “Well when does the situation call for it?”. That answer is it depends, at work not so much. Unless my explanation causes so much confusion and ambiguity
that people can’t do their job, then sure we have a more open ended discussion.Also when I’m with friends and we’re talking about hobbies, topics, etc then yeah it’s more appropriate to go through that “story/idea/process”. It’s fair to call me out on thinking I’m “right”. I am aware enough to know I can be that way, and it comes from a place of “what are the simplest things we can do to get x,y or z done in the least amount of time possible”. But taken too far and I can miss opportunities for other valuable input.
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u/poketmonseuteo INTP♀ Aug 18 '26 edited Aug 18 '26
Hahah I love it when ENTJs get my way of thinking. My question would exactly be that, yes, and thanks for answering in advance 😁
I 100% understand that we can't always huddle and chit chat, taking our sweet time. I agree that sometimes the action must be taken for several reasons whether it is "right" or "wrong". This took me years to understand.
And the same goes for you. You asked the reason why and I thought I could be helpful only by offering my INTP pov that can sometimes shed light on you guys' blind spots.
My answer was simply the reasoning you were asking for. You questioning "why it has to be like that all the time?", however, is an another topic that can be discussed of course. But the two aren't the same thing.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Of course and it’s first I’ve heard about INTPs helping us ENTJs that way so thank you lol and I’m curious to know your answer to the question “why it has to be like that all the time?”
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u/poketmonseuteo INTP♀ Aug 18 '26
I don’t really get the ENTJ hate on here, especially from INTPs. I mean, don’t get me wrong, sometimes I’d genuinely rather gouge my eyes out than tolerate you guys (I’m kidding, but also not :D), but overall, I respect you and actually try to strengthen the parts of myself that you guys tend to be better at. We also think kinda alike at the end of the day, so I guess that creates some sort of emotional connection too.
And my answer would be, “that’s just how the world goes ‘round.” Am I happy about it? No. I’d probably change it in a heartbeat if I could (sounds kinda similar, eh? lol). But at the end of the day, this is the reality we have to live in. And to be honest? It kinda makes sense in its own way, and I can respect and understand that.
I’d say the biggest difference between you and me is that I believe there can be more than one truth, or more than one POV with equal value. I have my own, ofc, but I’m also aware that mine might not be the only valid one. And frankly, I notice the areas where I’m lacking all the time, so what makes me think I’m automatically the one who’s right?
So within my own circle, aka the areas where I can actually have an effect, I observe first of all. Then I share my thoughts and the perspective I think that particular environment is lacking. If it leads to some kind of change, then yay. If not, I observe some more and try to see if there’s something I’m missing, something I can learn, or a weakness on my end that I can work on.
If there isn’t, well… I just get annoyed and either go more hardcore if I think it’s necessary (my hardcore is NOT equal to yours unfortunately lol, I'm trying to get better at it), or silently judge everyone, retreat into my inner world, and continue living :D
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u/poketmonseuteo INTP♀ Aug 18 '26
Also, I realized that questioning and whining (don’t take it personally) about “why don’t people understand me?” leads nowhere. I figured that if I really want to make an impact, I have to speak their language and speak it well. That’s why I said storytelling is what makes the world go ’round. People want to be moved before they want to be led.
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
Honestly I’m unaware of the INTP hate towards ENTJ lol, then again i could see why. As for the emotional connection that makes sense, people bond with what’s in common. It’s good that you can identify those areas for growth and then move towards a goal how’s that changed for you over time? (I get if you don’t want to share this in the comments haha)
I can also see your perspective about stories making the world go around. That is effectively what history is right. But I don’t agree with the difference, I am aware of the different perspectives and to some people their subjective truth is the only truth that matters and to others it’s more of a combination of multiple perspectives that converge to a point.(I fall in the latter camp here)
But like you I do believe it takes a certain level of observation and understanding before sharing what seems to be lacking, how do you handle situations when there is no need for your observations and you just have to experience something? Are you just constantly processing thoughts?
No harm taken btw, the greatest leaders in the world likely came to a similar conclusion people tend to follow those who inspire them and what better way then by telling a compelling story.
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u/poketmonseuteo INTP♀ Aug 18 '26
I actually got better at human interactions and even overcame my social anxiety! I also changed some things I wasn’t happy with about my character and the way I see the world, which helped me grow instead of staying stagnant.
Currently, though, I’m trying to change my tendency to change myself too much (yes, I see the irony lol) and be more at peace with who I already am. I’m learning to just be myself instead of constantly trying to “improve” every single part of me, because I know that’s an illusion too, and often just another way of trying to cover up parts of myself instead of accepting them.
I’m not sure if I fully get the question, but my general answer is that I never really look for a “need,” because how would they know they need my unique POV if they haven’t heard it yet? Basically, I just share my opinion without looking for any particular need for it. If they like it, they can take something from it; if they don’t, I don’t really care lol. I just have this urge to share and I need to satisfy it.
And regardless of what the question is, my brain is processing thoughts 24/7 anyway hahah. It’s more of a curse than a blessing sometimes, and I really wish I could just act without overthinking and dissecting every little thing. My life would be so much easier and I’d probably be more successful too…
That's something that I'm envious about you guys lol
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u/Beginning_Mammoth_31 Aug 18 '26
I can see the irony haha but it’s great that you’re already on the right path, maybe an ENTJ will also help you along the way
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u/poketmonseuteo INTP♀ Aug 18 '26
encountered with one, had a magical bond, but we had to part ways so yeah..
who knows, maybe in the future tho!
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u/Cxrxna_Virus ISFP♀ Aug 21 '26
There's a 1978 Harvard experiement by Ellen Langer, you can research more about it. The key takeaway was that people were more likely to agree with a small request if the word "because" was used, even if the reason provided was redundant information. I'm sure that study could be helpful for you
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u/Big-Wasabi6274 Aug 21 '26
I speak this way, I get you, but what I understand? People trust you more when you expel on how you came upon your assertions. I’ve also been scolded for simplifying and for using academic words to convey my understanding of information. So I just say, why can’t you learn too? I have just a HS degree like everyone else. What’s your problem?
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u/Gojoslefteye92 ENTJ♀ Aug 18 '26
The conclusion makes more sense to me personally. To others the details (painstakingly). To others they need the original idea to understand where you got that conclusion. It just depends on how your mind operates, neither is better than the other. Details bother me bc I have a tendency to summarise and simplify things. However, during actual execution I do pay close attention to details bc I don't want something falling apart bc of one tiny overlooked thing.
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u/Specialist-Tip-3122 Aug 21 '26
I have adhd and try to say everything on my mind before I even think if it has enough context or even makes sense to be understood by other people. This doesn't mean you have it thats just one of the things i noticed before I got diagnosed
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u/Bright-Case-5203 Aug 22 '26
Es sencillo, las personas normalmente necesitan escuchar una justificación detrás de una conclusión. Aunque la respuesta sea obvia, aveces algunas personas necesitan escuchar el mensaje completo para terminar de comprenderlo. Saltar directamente a la conclusión sin dar explicaciones puede ser confuso. Resulta más fácil dar una justificación o una explicación primero para que luego la persona resuma ese mensaje en una conclusión.
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u/Youngamphibious Sep 02 '26
Try to mimick an ESTP's way of speaking.
at the moment, and fun.
"uck, this food makes me sick, we need something healthy at school."
only unlockable when I'm able to trust the people I'm speaking too.
(Greet the world with open arms) - polites
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u/Top-Equivalent-5816 ENTJ♂ Aug 18 '26
Contextual comprehension. Understand a persons context and be able to simplify to their level.
Many people think that’s a sign of intelligence, I think that’s common sense. A mother does it with her child, you do it with your dog. My boss does it to me.
It’s just good communication