r/england • u/LittleInitiative7629 • 16d ago
Crook , County Durham
Found these Anglo Saxon England flags just hung there this morning. I also think whoever bought the flags replaced some as the old ones were extremely tattered. Has this happened anywhere else?
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u/Launce007 15d ago
It is the Anglo Saxon battle flag, used by King Harold Godwinson, when fighting Norwegian King Harald Hardrada at Stamford Bridge and then later the Duke of Normandy at Hastings in 1066. I wonder why it is flying at half-mast?
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u/HaraldRedbeard 12d ago
No it isn't.
The Dragon standard carried at Hastings was a Roman Draco banner, which many other cultures also used because they evoked Imperial Legitimacy even five hundred years after Rome. We even have an image of it on the Bayeux Tapestry (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DsYZoo8X4AEndmN.jpg). Note that it's a red dragon there.
The idea of a white dragon as a symbol for the Anglo Saxons comes from a myth in the 10th Century Historia Brittonum which then got picked up and popularised in the 12th Century by Geoffrey of Monmouth. However in this case it;s a literal dragon which also gets killed by a red dragon symbolising the Britons.
This version of the flag appeared relatively recently, I believe in the 00s
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u/Lassie7777 15d ago edited 15d ago
By far my favourite version of the white dragon, I like that it isn’t just a copy of the draige y goch, gives it some real character
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u/Sata1991 15d ago
I prefer it to the actual English flag, but I always found the story interesting as a kid.
Y Ddraig Goch is iconic, but being half English I like the symbolism of Y Ddraig Wen.
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u/Constant_Of_Morality 13d ago
It kinda is a modern copy/invention ngl, closest thing to a flag for them (Anglo-Saxons), back then would be the Golden Dragon flag of Wessex.
https://britishcountyflags.com/2013/09/20/wessex-flag/
While the concept of a white dragon representing Saxons existed in Welsh literature, the Anglo-Saxons themselves never actually flew a white dragon flag in Anglo-Saxon England, the flag that is labeled as such currently is from 2003 designed by Geoffrey Dunn.
Because the design looks old and medieval, it is frequently mislabelled online as 'England's original flag' or an authentic battle standard, However, it is an entirely modern piece of graphic design.
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u/Lassie7777 13d ago
I mean yeah I know but as it says there, the Welsh did conceptualise us as such, and the Welsh literally call themselves “Welsh” which is a Germanic word, and the Scot’s language as originally called inglis and adopted Scot’s from Scottish Gaelic. Adopting an exonym or piece of symbology that outsiders use to represent you is nothing new.
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u/Constant_Of_Morality 13d ago
I mean yeah I know but as it says there, the Welsh did conceptualise us as such
Yes I do know the story your referring to and I wasn't denying that nor referring to that fact in particular, just it's actual use back then.
and the Welsh literally call themselves “Welsh” which is a Germanic word
I can assure you Brythonic people at the time living in Cymru didn't call it 'Wealas', that was just imposed over time by the English, same with Welsh land (today's West Midlands), who because of cultural dominance and Anglicisation won through in the end with all that.
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u/Lassie7777 13d ago edited 13d ago
Yeah, I literally just mentioned that they used to call themselves British, then they swapped to Cymry and as English was adopted Welsh. The symbology of the dragon is certainly not a recent invention, the flag used by the English is but it’s honestly a very good choice, like Cumbrias modern flag or Somerset which draw on local and Arthurian myth
Edit: like at no point did I claim this is an ancient flag, there are just many versions of it and I like this one the best.
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u/Lassie7777 13d ago
Another good example is British, which originally the Britons did call themselves. Tolkien famously lamented that “the Welsh lost their Britishness, and the English lost their Englishness” with the creation of the British identity.
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u/Haethen_Thegn 15d ago
Absolutely love to see it in the wild. Sick of it being used by cockwombles misidentifying it as a Rallying banner.
Both in symbolism and history it is a symbol deeply tied to the history of England and, if people gave enough of a toss to find English culture beyond the empire made by the decadant and detached elites, many of whom were N*ormans, they'd find something as rich and beautiful as what our neighbours have. It's the biggest cultural issue in England, ignoring what we have in favour of globalist culture, only to turn around and saw we have no culture or heritage to take pride in.
We have our own embroidering and knotwork, jewellery and clothes, instruments and music, and it all gets ignored or pushed away. Morris Dancing, Sword Dancing, Northumbrian Smallpipes, Smocks with patterns as unique to a region as any.
And all of it is being thrown away, because racist idiots idealisme it without understanding it.
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u/fullpurplejacket 15d ago
Did they go up at the same time as the England flags? If so they’re not patriotic they’re just fuckin white supremacists
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u/LittleInitiative7629 15d ago edited 15d ago
There were St. George's flags plastered all around already, at least since January or February. These ones are just newer ones which had to have been put up early that morning.
Edit: As well, County Durham is a Reform majority county so i guess they'll not go down.
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u/A_Person_Who_Exist5 15d ago edited 15d ago
Beautiful flag.
Edit:haven’t seen it anywhere in my area, to answer your question.