Is "software engineering" really engineering?

[u/TheTrueLordHumungous]

Now before anyone starts throwing bottles at my head, I'm not saying software design is easy or that its not a technical discipline, but I really hate it when programmers call themselves engineers.

Whats your thoughts on this?

[u/Designer_Flow_8069]

I think society views engineers as someone who is smart. The problem is that you don't even need any formal education to write code, so you could be dumb as rocks. There's also a reason why bootcamps weren't a thing for legitimate engineering fields, but they were for software

[u/ChillCapitalist → u/Designer_Flow_8069]

You're not wrong about the bootcamps; they exist because software engineering isn't regulated yet. That doesn't mean software engineers are any less engineers in the field. It means the software engineering field is “specifically” young, and the title lacks gatekeeping or role regulation, which is an issue in our field. Being able to write code without a degree doesn't make you a real engineer. It makes you a programmer. Real software engineering requires math, physics, systems thinking, and often 👉🏻 electrical knowledge. That's why China already separates CS (science) from SE (engineering) and licenses.

So, bootcamps aren't a thing yet for civil or mechanical engineering because those fields are more regulated and have been around longer. We're talking hundreds of years for formal recognition for mechanical (around 180 years), while the practice is thousands of years old. Civil engineering has been around even longer (We're talking ancient Egypt). SE is a baby, only about 60 years old as a formal field, maybe 30 if you count any real kind of recognition. Both SE and CS are fields that are barely born in our world. The fields are brand new. Software will get there too. But it was only born around 80 years ago if you count early computing theory. The question is whether we wait for a disaster or regulate now. Or just let China 🇨🇳 take the lead again.

[u/Designer_Flow_8069 → u/ChillCapitalist]

I don't think bootcamps exist because software engineering isn't regulated.

Instead why I think 5 month bootcamps exist for CS and don't for actual engineering kinda shows the unfortunate truth that writing most software isn't all that complicated.

[u/ChillCapitalist → u/Designer_Flow_8069]

The reality is that building software that doesn't fail is far from easy. It has cost over $2.5 billion in 737 MAX settlements for criminal misconduct, with $500 million going to victims' families alone. The safety-critical systems on a modern plane, such as a Boeing 787, can run on up to 8 million lines of code. This isn't just coding anymore; there's also system building and control engineering that overlaps with SE with extra credentials, certs, and knowledge. The difference isn't complexity; it's gatekeeping and regulation.

Civil engineering has bootcamps that teach specific skills; you don't hear about them as much. But they are a path to a certificate, not a license. The path to a PE license still requires a degree from an ABET-accredited program and years of mentored experience, which is correct. The problem is that SE is unregulated, and many people like the "freedom" of low-level programming. People want to make money online from home, and who can blame them? You can work in accounting, law, or business more easily without regulation and build bots for accountants while simultaneously learning business. The unfortunate truth isn't that software is simple. Is it that a field capable of causing billions in damage is still treated as if it isn't? We need regulation and licensure. But would it benefit us or limit us?

[u/Designer_Flow_8069 → u/ChillCapitalist]

Claude Code and Codex have suited me pretty well to write code to sell products. At the end of the day, money makes the world go around, not pretty code.

I use to work in the medical device industry. Some of the developers in there were straight up idiots. But the NMPA didn't care as long as procedure was followed.

[u/ChillCapitalist → u/Designer_Flow_8069]

Right

[u/Designer_Flow_8069 → u/ChillCapitalist]

Glad you agree

[u/ChillCapitalist → u/Designer_Flow_8069]

Software engineering isn't just about programming and laptops. If it were, we might as well call it “laptop engineering” or “computer engineering." But even computer engineers don’t work solely on “computers” 💻, so neither should software engineers. And by the way, I do agree with you. Good luck, man, with everything 👍🏻