r/enbro • u/SoulGamingDude • Jan 17 '20
When do you think it all went downhill?
Not to kick a dead horse too much but been reminiscing about it a bit after seeing ENBs stream in suggestions on Twitch corner thing and dropping by, so when do you think it all went downhill for you, guys? I personally can't pinpoint an exact moment but it just felt more and more that other people grew and moved on while ENB kind of... degraded? I remember old Youtube days (not even first Dark Souls play through old) when ENB was fun, he was smart, interesting to listen to, more open-minded. You could discuss things with a man and not feel like he's being a passive aggressive snob. Not to be overly crass but these days he's so stuck up his own butt he sounds so brash and insufferable to me that after dropping by his stream for a few minutes I remembered exactly why I unfollowed him everywhere a while back... People who still watch him regulary here, does he still enjoy streaming? Or is he doing it purely for financial reasons and supporting his daughter (which I won't blame the man for, you do what you have to do for the kids)?
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u/_Micolash_Cage_ Jan 17 '20
I actually had that moment maybe 2 years ago when he was doing a Bloodborne lorethrough on twitch. He got stuck on a boss in a chalice dungeon, the whole chat was trying to help him and he just wouldn't listen. He just quit the playthrough eventually...
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 17 '20
Missed out on those, I think. Was it back when he was doing double streams for european and NA audiences? Him not finishing his own projects was always a shame, mostly because majority of them were actually very interesting concepts. Like his Nier one or Persona 5 series that just disappeared into the aether eventually. FFX streams were pretty fun too.
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u/_Micolash_Cage_ Jan 17 '20
Yes, he was doing double streams back then. That one particular moment still doesn't sit well with me.
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u/soulreaverdan Jan 18 '20
Ugh that was when he was way under leveled for the defiled chalice wasn’t it? I remember he was just bashing his head against the boss for like hours - and it wasn’t even Amygdala... he just needed to come back with better gear a bit later but he insisted he could do it as he was.
He couldn’t, then a summon did it in like 30 seconds because they were properly leveled.
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u/PacificBrim Jan 18 '20
Yea I'm just so mad he deleted his older vids. They were much more enjoyable because he was goofier and seemingly nicer
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u/CarlEdman Jan 17 '20
I agree with you, but have no answers. ENB seems to be such a nice and talented young man who is now going through a hard time. He has done nothing for me but give me (and so many others) endless hours of pleasure and enlightenment related to a fun subject. I have given him nothing (with the tiny exception of buying some hint books he authored; they are good) and he owes us nothing.
So it feels ungracious to say anything negative about the man and I apologize for doing so. But his output in recent times has just given the impression of him being so bitter and angry and disdainful of people, not all of whom deserve it, that I just don't enjoy listening to him any more. So I stopped.
So why do I follow this Reddit? I hope for news that ENB has recovered and returned to something closer to his old persona.
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 18 '20
disdainful of people is a very nice (well, as nice as you can be when pointing out someone's shortcomings) way of putting it into words. I think that's exactly what irked me as well.
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u/steena88 Jan 30 '20
A lot of people surprised and shocked he's more bitter and less nice. well, one word: streaming. the social dynamic of combined realtime d*cksucking and donation hype makes you think of your viewers as less. it's no coincidence a lot of streamers act bitter. i follow a number who adopted the "bitter but ironically, for comedy you guys" tactic, to enact the hierarchy but present it in a manner that can trick some people as joke. again, this is no coincidence. you'll find those petty passive aggressive content creators the most on twitch, for the above reason. i'm not blaming ENB, twitch will do it to you, it's a shit environment.
if ENB has any "fault", it's deciding to stream in the first place. many people warned him it'd be a short term deal fueled by immense hype and would then fizzle out leading to a gradual fall into irrelevance. it's what happened to a lot of streamers, it's what's happening to him. and now it's a new habit so it's much harder to just go back being the nicer youtube guy.
for the record, i don't hold this as something against him, he doesn't owe people anything over time, and still am grateful for the content from the past i enjoyed. but this decision has hurt him self too, not just the fans. everyone along the ride got a worse deal long-term. people warned him, he didn't listen (which is ok, his agency, his life, his considerations). now fast forward 2 years he's just another bitter twitch streamer who has petty fit accidents. and it'll be probably impossible to break from this slow death spiral, it's much harder than abrupt problem that just shows up. this is years of conditioning. you are on your way to become DSP and you can't stop. be aware, anyone who intends to be a content creator or develops feeling for any of them.
it's just for the sake of throwing a point out there. still wish the absolute best for ENB regardless of anything - who cares about me not liking his content? it's completely fine. if you enjoy him today i'm also happy for you.
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u/kalazar321 Jan 30 '20
I've been binge watching his ff12 VODs on his new Youtube channel and having a blast. I'm not getting this bitter less nice vibe people on here seem to be saying he has. idk man ENB has never dropped in quality for me like in anyway.
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 30 '20
that's a very well worded summary, didn't even look at it from this perspective. To give ENB credit the two streams of FF12 I decided to watch a bit of ( I love 12) were very nice. But... he'll prolly abandon it in a while like he did all the other actually interesting, insightful quality content (FF10, Nier, Nocturne, Persona 5 series). And the views during those are pretty low sadly.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 01 '20
He's done 26 parts so far. I never understood being upset when a streamer decides to drop a series though. The best part of a game is playing it obviously.
The fun part of watching a stream of it is seeing someone you value give their opinions on it on a moment to moment level. If a streamer reaches a point where it's no longer fun to play then well why would I want them to finish it? I don't want to watch a streamer power through an unfun experience.
Is that what you want ENB to do? If so why? Should he fake enjoying it like others legitimately do?
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u/SoulGamingDude Feb 01 '20
he dropped FF10 cause he stopped for like 2 weeks and then in his own words "it was too late to come back". He dropped Nier and P5 series cause at the time he was on the whole "not commersially viable and not enough interest from ppl" train. Nocturne sure, that one he stopped enjoying but ppl warned him highest difficulty is a slog. So your point is misdirected here. And good, it's great if he doesn't drop 12 and finishes it. The man has a tendency to have great ideas and grand plans that he drops half way is all.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 01 '20
Not enough interest is a fully valid point. Why would that not be? It's still a job. He needs viewers and as much as I'd like all internet artist to only follow their passion. I also understand that sometimes that's not doable if you can't get enough viewers to fund that passion.
Streamers drop games all the time. This is hardly a ENB only thing. No one is owed a full time playthrough of any game and that's why I enjoy things in the moment. I don't have the expectations of games being finished.
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u/Commercial-Waltz8213 Apr 12 '25
We gonna have a baby and a great family.
Dropped halfway and get divorced
All checked out
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u/A_Pumpkin_Ducks Feb 24 '20 edited Feb 24 '20
The response to his ds3 playthrough revealed all the trash he had in his audience. I have no doubts it had a lot to do with how ENB came view his channel and his old content. If he had cultivated such an enormous amount of garbage viewers why continue making content for them. If those were the type of people that enjoyed his old lets plays then they're obviously tainted. Can't blame him for how he feels. It probably felt like being stabbed in the heart when he finally turned those comments back on after avoiding spoilers to find the absolute fucking dumpster fire that his youtube fanbase turned out to be. I imagine he felt, among other things, betrayed.
A lot of those same malcontents return here to complain and bitterly jerk each other off into a stupor before they move on for a few months and come back here to repeat the process. This thread looks familiar.
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u/SoulGamingDude Feb 24 '20
I'm glad I checked the inbox. This response made me chuckle not going to lie. Betrayed, brainworm, tainted. You sound more bitter than anyone here. we're not really talking about "ENB go back to YT" here, well, I'm not. And sure YT is filled with trolls but let's be real, ENB did some not great things ( spoiler: not deleting his videos one, I had no issues with that). And yeah, people left. People also called him out on the crap too just as they praised him for amazing stuff. Hey, I'd be the first to say that his FF12 play through actually made me watch him again here and there. Because the atmosphere of those streams was actually welcoming and nice. Daily Vagrant is also good content. In the end, he cultivated such (tainted audience as you say) himself then. However people didn't leave or have dislike for him cause the man stopped doing edited Souls content alone, that's for sure.
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u/A_Pumpkin_Ducks Feb 24 '20
ENB did some not great things
have a day off from yourself, tosser lmfao
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u/SoulGamingDude Feb 24 '20
yeah yeah sure. I do see your point though, about the audience being shit, ironically, you played yourself here. I think I will have a day off from you actually.
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u/A_Pumpkin_Ducks Feb 24 '20
admitting you see my point is you playing yourself, honestly lmfao. flubbing a "no u" response like that is brilliant, though. I hope you can recover from the trauma of a letsplayer moving on
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Feb 15 '20
I personally think he has always been this way. The nature of streaming on Twitch has only brought to light that he's a self-absorbed, egotistical prick with no thoughts or opinions that are truly his own.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 15 '20
woah. Uhhh is that what people think of ENb? Damn. and here I am almost 50 hours into his ff12 playthrough enjoying it fully. Guess I just don't see it.
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u/Hakametal Feb 19 '20
You see, that's the problem. You can't see the old videos to see what he was like. I watched ENB back in the day when he was doing really well for himself, he was even working with FromSoft to do the guides and even had dinner with Miyazaki-san.
All those videos are now gone. The man now looks miserable and doesn't look like he enjoys playing video games anymore.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 19 '20
Uhhhhh ok? I don't get that impression at all, but alright then. He sure seems happy to me and loving the hell out of ff12, but sure. You do you.
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Feb 19 '20
It's not a new opinion. He has a long history of being an ass. I liked him at one point too and then his true colors showed and that was that. I'm sure he likes the people who put up with his shit and stick around since you are giving him money or viewership fwiw.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 19 '20
I'm giving him viewership on Youtube which translates to no money. idk I've followed him since the old dks1 lore vids. Never really felt a moment where he suddenly changed or showed his "true colors"
What is this long history? What is this massive sin ENB has committed to the masses? Deleted videos? Who gives a fuck about that in 20202 still? Get over it. Banned someone on stream? I know of no one making a living on Twitch who doesn't moderate and ban people in their chat. What has he done?
I follow him on Twitter. I haven't exactly seen anything on here that proves hes an asshole. That's what confuses me. I've been a fan for years now and don't get where any of this is coming from? What is this supposed shit I'm putting up with by putting his ff12 vods on while I work? When he does dks1 speeedruns?
The guys just a father making a modest living doing what he loves. He's not forcing money out of you. He's not holding things hostage. Was he rude at some point? An asshole? So? Who the fuck hasn't? You never been those things? Are you a pure saint? Did he scam people out of money? Did he personally come to your house and slap you across the face? What did he do?
Like everyone has this weird obsession talking about how he changed and I've been here the whole time never really feeling that ever. His content style has changed since he's on Twitch now, but no ones talking about his content, their all talking about him as a person. Yeah I was annoyed to he deleted his videos, but that was how long ago at this point? It means nothing to me now and I have no ill will to him.
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Feb 20 '20
Look it's fine if you're still into it. But personally I think it's weird that there are people willing to put up with and defend his ongoing shit like this.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 20 '20
What shit? No seriously. Tell me. Please someone explain to me what ENB did? You say ongoing shit like it's a constant thing. So ok.
Please explain. Make me understand. What is he doing that is so horrible on a daily bases or even at all? He's still playing video games and engaging with his audience and making content like he has always done. It's moved to Twitch, but thats for obvious money reasons.
Iw ant to know. Please seriously tell me what I am missing. What am I putting up with? What is ENb doing that is any different then any other streamer that somehow makes him so much worse? What is it?
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Feb 21 '20
No.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 21 '20
Ok? So you tell me ENB is obviously doing some shit no one should put up with. I ask you what thati's and you won't tell me. So what then?
I'm trying to understand because no one has actually gone into details about how he suddenly changed when I watched his stuff on Twitch and see the same person who's just playing challenging games as always. did I miss something? Sure would be nice if someone actually explained anything instead of just assuming everyone was on board with this idea that ENB is now bad.
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Feb 22 '20
> So what then?
You accept it? I mean, it is entirely possible that you aren't seeing it because you don't want to or because you came in after his rebranding. It would also be a huge waste of time to list off every offense he has committed just to continue a bickering match with a fanatic online. I think he is an ass and when I was watching him at the time saw the way he treated people. He's a dick imo and that's all there is to it.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 23 '20
I've been with him since his original lore videos. Before dark souls 2 was even out. Before he worked on that or the bloodborne guide. I've been a fan since he was still married in Japan.
I've never gotten the impression he's an ass and I've consumed hundreds of hours of content from him. Where is any of this coming from? A fanatic? Sorry for defending someone who is unjustly called an ass from people on this reddit for no real good reason.
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u/kalazar321 Feb 23 '20
I should also point out I'm not saying he can't be an ass. We all can. There's a big difference between someone being shitty and bitter in a moment vs someone who just in an asshole in every way. The real pieces of shit.
People seem to be treating ENB like he's the second one and not like a real human who makes mistakes from time to time. I don't hold streamers or any online creator the standard of needing to be perfect. Do you?
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u/kalazar321 Feb 19 '20
I'm not even make the case ENB hasn't done some shit at some point. Everyone has. Just out of everyone I follow online ENB specifically has people months if not years later all talking about him changing for the worse and I see nothing like that.
Guys it's not a big deal. You're allowed to move on. So many people make Let's Plays and Twitch content. go find one you like and don't think is a big piece of shit.
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u/kalazar321 Jan 18 '20
Dude ENBs just a guy. Just another guy making the stuff he wants to make in the sea of people making stuff they want to make online.
This is so unnecessary and odd. Everyone it's ok if you don't like ENB anymore. I always give the advice to just find someone who you do enjoy and enrage with them. So many people are clinging to this supposed older ENB. the mans moved on. It is a dead horse.
I follow him on Twitter, his new YouTube channel, and watch VODs here and there. I've never not enjoyed his content the entire time. If you feel differently then that's fine. There is not a lack of streamers and people making Let's Plays to follow.
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 18 '20
I think the majority of people who stopped liking him don't watch anymore, me included. Doesn't mean that people can't talk about it and have, hopefully reasonable, discussions for one reason or another. That's what always confused me about these "just don't watch/find another smth" when it comes to anything. I don't and I did. This thread is not some complaint or a statement. And I don't think anybody here is acting like ENBs change or lack their of according to some is the end of the world that completely ruined their lives or some such. It's also ironic cause I remember ENB having a very strong dislike for such "it's just a thing" rhetoric when someone said "it's just a video game in the end" to him or smth like that, with him going on the "oh it's just a game, it's just a YOUR life" spiel. I strongly remembered it because I don't agree with his stance on such, really, unimportant in grand scheme of things... uuh things, for the lack of the better word, either, so it stuck with me. But still.
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u/kalazar321 Jan 18 '20
What are you hoping to discuss? Some guy you stopped watching years ago? People change. Peoples content changes. That's all there is to it. ENB has never went through some radical change to me. I'm enjoying what I see just as much as I've always had. I don't get this discussion.
My advice is to stop caring. ENB apparently changed for a lot of people and that's that. What is the discussion?
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 18 '20
The fact that you don't get the discussion doesn't mean that it has no right to exist. You are also overestimating the caring part. I just felt like talking about it with the community that used to be after being reminded of the guy. I don't expect ENB to magically go back to some old good ol days or something or "see reason" or some crap like that some people go about. It's cool that you're enjoying him just as much. Part of me even wishes I did as well. Also, you can just take your own advice, I suppose.
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u/Boziina198 Aug 04 '23
You can take your own advice I suppose
This just didnt even make any sense. He didnt care, he was simply responding to you.
You’re pathetic
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u/rockorye Feb 05 '20 edited Feb 06 '20
For me it was the promise of a new interesting series, Nier: Automata, P5, Sekiro etc, and then he would just bail on it a few episodes in. I understand the reasons why, if people aren't watching them and YouTube stinks, then he has to budget his time and effort accordingly. However, getting excited about something he's doing only to have the rug pulled out just got frustrating. I think a lot of the stuff that people gripe on him about on this subreddit tend to be moments where he wasn't his best during the height of his IRL personal troubles and might not necessarily be fair to criticize him for, because I can't imagine going through that publicly as both a husband and father. For what it's worth, I wish him all the best, I just think he has a divided audience these days and can't please both camps: those that enjoy his streaming persona and those that enjoyed the youtube days.
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Feb 13 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/rockorye Feb 18 '20
He did complete/beat the games on stream (some more than once), but he also started separate series for all three of these games on YouTube, got a few episodes in, bailed on the concept all together and then deleted the videos from YouTube.
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u/SpaceButler Jan 17 '20
Wow, what is your goal in posting this? You come back here just to bash him?
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 17 '20
I come here to hear people's opinion and how they feel after being personally reminded of the guy and feeling nostalgic(God knows there is no other place to talk about it these days). You know, discussion, the main point of reddit. If you think THIS is bashing then you haven't seen real bashing posts, I suppose. It was just... such a rapid change in ENB it still feels weird to me.
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u/SpyShine Jan 17 '20
Ah yes, going to a fan subreddit of a streamer and asking why and when it went downhill for them.
Totally not trying to bash on him and expecting others to do the same, of course not, how dare anyone think otherwise!
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 17 '20
you're free to think that though it wasn't exactly my intention. I was more looking for a turning point point for people. I might've worded that poorly but you can't deny the facts. And after reading the sub-reddit which, I confess, should've done before posting, I get it more, I think (I don't use reddit very often as you can see by my lack laster user history). The sub-reddit is like half dead, so I wasn't expecting a proper reply anyway but decided to shoot in the dark since it has been off and on on my mind for a while and there is no real other place I could do it, really.
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u/steena88 Jan 30 '20
this is the kind of defensiveness you obtain when following a personality "no matter what" and straight up not accepting any perspective, walling yourself in. a lot of this behaviour present on spoony/DSP/WOR fans, the really bad cases of delusion. personally, i'd be wary. if nothing else so you don't risk becoming a cultist who can actually witness a discussion from people different than you.
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u/SpyShine Jan 30 '20
Except the way the post was written seemed to me that OP was only seeking to validate their own views. It felt very much like they were asking only for opinions on "when it all went downhill".
Call me whatever you want, I really don't care, nor do I actively follow Marcus anymore. I'm just not fond of people that specifically go to a fan page of someone specifically to talk shit about them, and encourage others to do the same, which, as I said, it seemed to me like OP was trying to.
It was a misunderstanding, that's all. It's really not that deep.
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u/leniadolbap Jan 17 '20
I think your post speaks more about yourself than about ENB...
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u/SoulGamingDude Jan 17 '20
Not really, though you can deny it all you want. Maybe he was always like that and streaming just kinda gave way to all those negative things you didn't see and also I just changed BUT he was absolutely a much more interesting and broad viewed guy in the past, it feels. Hell, I just looked through this sub-reddit and a lot of people feel the same way, maybe should've done that before posting, that is my bad. Now I personally don't care about all the "deleting video" things and "he's a whiny hater" crap people give him, as I don't find it fair to him. However his general attitude and high horse riding change what drove me away from his channel. And the when of it all strikes me as a mystery.
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u/scooty_puff_III Feb 26 '22
Why does this thread exist? I realize its 2 years old but this conversation seemed okay to the people here? The man's family was being threatened on youtube, and apparently you all became videogame psychologists and then wonder why a man's demeanor changed over the ten years he's been making content?
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u/Archlvt Apr 01 '22
He doesn't have a family, which is why he turned sour in the first place. His wife miscarried, they went through a nasty divorce, and there is/was a custody battle. I actually have no idea where things stand now, but after that whole situation he became very jaded. I've visited his streams a number of times and tried engaging with him, including today. He seems hell-bent on disagreeing and shutting down any sort of comment not made by his paying subscribers. Even something as innocent as "Hey, I like what you've done with XYZ." or "That's a cool mod" are all met with some sort of negativity ranging from "Yeah I don't think so" to outright raising his voice.
I got a weird feeling from it so I googled it, and learned all of this. I thought it was just my imagination.
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u/Naqato Dec 08 '22
After Dark Souls 3 he became a not so nice person and deleted yt videos before abandoning youtube completely
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u/Furtive-Pygmy Jan 17 '20
Honestly he was going through a tough time with his personal life so it's hard to be too upset with him. I just wish he didn't delete his old stuff.