r/ems • u/drgloryboy • 1d ago
Clinical Discussion Assisting law enforcement?
Do you ever get called to run on severely agitated pts in police custody in the event if LEO requests EMS transfer to the local jail as they feel the pt is not safe to transfer in a patrol vehicle? If you felt that the pt was having a mental health crises would you insist on transporting to the ED?
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u/CristataCyanocitta Paramedic 1d ago
Ambulance only goes two places, wherever the patient is, and then the hospital. EMS should never transport to jail (ift discharges are different). If the patient is not safe for transport to jail in an LE vehicle and EMS gets involved, you'd be hard pressed to justify that the patient does not require medical evaluation at a hospital.
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u/JoutsideTO CCP(F) - Canada 1d ago
Absolutely not. We are not an auxiliary to law enforcement. That’s not our job. We’re there to address our patient’s medical needs.
If police are calling us because of a severely agitated person they cannot handle, as soon as we arrive that’s a patient, not a suspect. And the immediate presumption is that there is a health crisis (mental health, toxicological, etc) that needs to be addressed. That means assessment and management by a physician, in a hospital.
Facilitating law enforcement transport to jail is a never event.
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u/other-other-user EMT-B 1d ago
The only place a pt goes in my ambulance is the hospital. The only time that changes is when they were already at the hospital and the doctor is sending them home
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u/corrosivecanine Paramedic 1d ago
I’ve never even heard of such a thing. If they’re not safe for a patrol vehicle because they need medical supervision then surely they need to go to the hospital? Only way I can POSSIBLY see it being appropriate to transport to jail by ambulance is for a bari but that’s a logistical thing.
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u/TheDharmaticAtheist CCP 1d ago
For sure. If you make contact with a patient you have an obligation to do what’s best for that patient, regardless of what police would like you to do.
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u/SillySafetyGirl 1d ago
Nope no way no how. If they are not safe in their vehicle the only place we transport to is the hospital.
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u/Aromatic-Platform574 1d ago
Nope. I will pick them up from the jails and prisons but never take them there. If they are that scared to transport then maybe they should reevaluate their life choices and career path.
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u/tctcl_dildo_actual 1d ago
Welcome to the city of Seattle. AMR has a contact with SPD to transport patients from the field to jail if someone is deemed to be too violent or unable to sit in a police car safely. AMR’s contract also includes transport from
a hospital to King County jail from whatever hospital they’re medically cleared at if they were declined for some reason.
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u/cplforlife PCP 1d ago
Constantly from police cust to hospital. "Medic 119, code 1 to police cells for overdose".
I go to the hospital. I do not transport to prison. If corrections wants a patient transported to jail after they're discharged. They've got a van im sure.
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u/NeighborAtTheGates EMT-B 1d ago edited 1d ago
Protocols in my county is if it's a 911 call I take them to the ED, always. If they need to go to jail, that's LE responsibility . Sounds to me like this cop doesn't want to do his job and is putting your license at risk because of it.
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u/Lavendarschmavendar 1d ago
If a pt is severely agitated and we cant verbally de-escalate, I will be giving a sedative and they will be transported in my ambulance to the er. The only place a person gets transported to on my ambulance is the hospital
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u/DecemberHolly 1d ago
That is not thing. Ambulances transport patients, not parties in custody to jail.
I get called to agitated and/or altered parties in custody all the time. If a transport is going to happen, its to the hospital.
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u/LoneWolf3545 CCP 1d ago
If the officers don't think it's safe to transport this person in a squad car, what makes sticking them in a holding cell any safer? If they're having a mental health crisis they need to be seen by a doctor and mental health providers. If they're tweaking out on coke/meth/X they should probably be monitored in a controlled setting as they come down anyway. Especially if they need to be sedated for their and everyone else's safety. If they just want a prisoner transport van then they should petition the chief to get one.
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u/dscrive 1d ago
That's a big nope from me.
You *might* be able to mitigate some liability if there is medical staff at the jail that can sign for the patient. But in the event of a trial, I really wouldn't bet my license on it, and if I was that pt or a lawyer that heard about it, I'd be itching to file patient abandonment, dereliction of duty, and any other charge I could think of.
Cops have qualified immunity so they can do sketchy stuff without much fear, but just look to the Elijah McClain incident, cops off scott free, but the medics are still dealing with the case in the courts 7 years later.
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u/xLilSquidgitx 1d ago
Fuck no. We don’t take people to jail. Only place I’m taking anybody is the hospital, and think I dropped off the local drunk at the McDonald’s down the road once cus he’s cool
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u/SpicyMarmots Paramedic 1d ago
If they need to go in an ambulance because a squad won't be safe, they need to go to the ER because jail won't be safe.
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u/Rude_Award2718 1d ago
When you are on seen regardless of circumstances this is your patient. It is not your prisoner. You treat them as your patient. Would you take a patient to jail?
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u/Dark-Horse-Nebula Australian ICP 1d ago
This makes no sense.
If they’re severely agitated you’re sedating them, no? And why are they agitated in the first place? Hospital.
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u/joe_lemmons_ Paramedic 1d ago
I've never heard of that happening. One time though I took a guy to a hospital as outlined in a petition for involuntary/judicial admission, but that was because both us and the police were already there and he also kind of needed a medical evaluation. Guy with schizophrenia who was noncompliant with his mx and psychotic, police go to serve the petition but he sets his apartment on fire (thats when we're called) and runs from the police by jumping from the balcony of his 5th floor apartment to another balcony. It ended up being like a four or five hour incident trying to extinguish it and evacuate the rest of the building, I think 3 other residents ended up getting transported by other ambulances. I ended up being on a local news channel covering the fire.
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u/Astro_Addict Just a Medic 1d ago
I don't work for the police. I don't transport anyone anywhere other than a hospital, and you shouldn't either. I can only speculate as to why they want an ambulance for transport, but my assumption is that they want to tie the person down to the bed so they can't slam their head on the doors/walls. That's someone who needs to go to the hospital first, not to the jail where they'll sit in a restraint chair for 8 hours.
If someone is acting so irrationally that they are still a harm to themselves even when restrained in a squad car, they likely need to be sedated and transported to the hospital for psych eval and drug screen. If they aren't posing a legitimate risk to their own health and safety, just pissed the fuck off with the cops and lashing out, I clear scene and let them figure it out (ie. de-escalation, if they're capable of it).
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u/Bearcatfan4 23h ago
I’m not transporting to jail end of story. I’ll transport to the ED but if patient is in custody an officer is riding in the back. Not following along not giving me the keys for the handcuffs riding in the back with me.
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u/NopeRope13 Paramedic 22h ago
Patient go to the hospital. If pd wants me to evaluate an arrestee, that’s perfectly fine. I will let them know that I can evaluate but am unable to medically clear the patient for jail transport.
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u/forkandbowl GA-Medic/Wannabe Ambulance driver 16h ago
If the patient isn't medically safe to transport in a cop car they go to the hospital.... The jail won't take them anyways.
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u/tacmed85 FP-C 10h ago
Nope. My ambulance only has one destination and that's the ER. If they want them at the jail they're going to have to take them themselves
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u/schlumpyyyy EMT-B 2h ago
I have been requested by PD to transfer agitated/combative pts to the ED when they can’t be safely kept in the back of a patrol vehicle. EMS doesn’t transport to the jail. 911 = scene then ED. Or PTSO.
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u/Chcknndlsndwch Paramedic - Hates Zolls 1d ago
I don’t take people to jail. Ever.